Killing with Yoshi - Yoshi kill setups

Oz

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#1
Hello guys. N00b Yoshi here.

I've been asking for sometime if Yoshi's KO prowess considered bad. Because I honestly think so- I know I'm doing it wrong, but I'm pretty bad with Yoshi anyway.

- How do good Yoshies get the kill most of the time?
- What KO setups could you give me examples of? Anything, anything at all.

Using Yoshi competetively is becoming kind of hard for me because of that. I used to have U-Smash as my KO move. KO setup for that? Just run back and forth like an idiot until the oponent lowers their guard, and THEN strike them with the U-Smash. Doesn't work anymore. And just going for the U-Air when they're in the air doesn't work because they'll always expect it.
 

Oz

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#3
Jab to Down-B is pretty viable. But some of those others don't. :/ D-Smash doesn't normally. It's a 5-frame move, I think you'll be using it for other things, like punishing, getting the opponent off you and for jab cancels. Egg rollololol to U-Air sounds very strange. I'll have to practice the spikes.
 

burntsocks

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#6
Egg roll to uair should never work unless your opponent has downs.
egg roll to anythin doesnt work.

The key to getting kills is not to force them, especially with moves like usmash which are easy to avoid if you are just running around looking for kills.

Yoshi doesnt really have kill setups except on like CGable characters sometimes.
Learning how to frame trap with uair, eggs, and such are good for getting kills.

A nice sneaky KO i like against some characters is shorthop back air to landing nair. Basically they shield the backair and often drop shield to punish yoshi, and then they eat nair.
One of my favorite sneaky kill options is SHAD behind them and fsmash. Like it shouldnt work but especially if they turn around to like jab you, yoshis head moves back and people often dont expect the aerial mobility for yoshi to land behind them and then fsmash.

If you predict a roll you can running usmash. Usmash is a nice kill move to counter certain aerial approaches and landings as well.

Just practice, there is no like guarenteed kill setups with yoshi besides random matchup specific stuff, so basically you are gonna have to get kills off your merits as a player and off reads. As you play and get better you will learn what works and what doesnt.
 
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Anragon

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#8
Kills set-up (best to situational) :

1. Grab Release Usmash on the specified characters

2. Eggs (Up-B) : the hitstun and knockback can allow you to follow-up nicely.

3. Jan Cancel Stuff. FH N-air is a nice and pretty safe option if Down-B is staled.

4. Egg lay chase. A good read give you a free u-air in general

5. Weak hits of the B-air before landing. Usmash combos well in this case.

6. Edguarding, edgehog... Self-explanatory.


But as burntsocks says, you should not force the kill. Just keep focusing and looking for a opportunity.
 

Delta-cod

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#9
Just never worry about killing. Keep up your game as if they weren't at high percents, and just wait for them to do something that you can kill them with.

Jab > Down B is good is you catch them at close range.

Dsmash is never a kill move.

Usmash will kill people, but you need to catch them as they're landing or approaching.

Fsmash is a good punishing move.

I recommend playing defensively and throwing them offstage. Jump after them, trap them with an egg, then follow up with Fair, Nair, or Uair. That's usually how I get my kills.

Uair traps well too. If you catch them as they're landing, FF an Uair below them, which will force them to Air dodge. Then down b them as they land. Alternatively, baiting an air dodge in general is very effective for netting a DJ > Uair kill.
 
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Airslash

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#10
Just never worry about killing. Keep up your game as if they weren't at high percents, and just wait for them to do something that you can kill them with.

Jab > Down B is good is you catch them at close range.

Dsmash is never a kill move.

Usmash will kill people, but you need to catch them as they're landing or approaching.

Fsmash is a good punishing move.

I recommend playing defensively and throwing them offstage. Jump after them, trap them with an egg, then follow up with Fair, Nair, or Uair. That's usually how I get my kills.

Uair traps well too. If you catch them as they're landing, FF an Uair below them, which will force them to Air dodge. Then down b them as they land. Alternatively, baiting an air dodge in general is very effective for netting a DJ > Uair kill.
I never actually got the kill with Dsmash, I use it to push people off the stage.

Otherwise, Delta mentioned what I forgot to pretty much explain ^^;

like usmash only when approaching.
dsmash/dtilt is good for edge gaurding, but obv situational.
 

burntsocks

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#11
Delta do you have an example of FF uair->downb in a vid. I dont think ive ever seen that (maybe ive done it intuitively but maybe i cant picture it).
 

Delta-cod

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#12
I sadly don't. It's just an idea I'm toying with and it's something I've tried to implement into my game for some time. I'll explain it a bit better for the idea, though.

You know how Marth can land in an Uair because it auto cancels really well and use it to combo/frame trap? It's the same idea, except with Yoshi.

Basically, what you do is you get them into the air (we have plenty of ways to do this) and then you follow them from below. Now, if they're high up, you can actually jump up at them (save your DJ) and begin baiting an air dodge. If they air dodge, Uair them anyways.

The idea is that you follow your opponent as they're landing while you're in the air yourself. You space your Uair but don't throw it out yet until both of you are nearly landing. When you get close enough to the ground, Uair, producing the hitbox (forcing them to air dodge or get hit), then Down B their landing if they dodged the Uair.

I was bored so I drew it in paint.

 
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Delta-cod

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#14
I can say the same thing. I'd use it in tourny more often, but it's effectiveness is limited by the character you're facing. MK and Falco kinda don't allow this to happen.

It'd be good against Snake, I'd reckon.
 

Oz

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#16
Or goddamn muscular. Yes, muscle weighs more than fat.
Anyway, thanks for the tips so far, guys. I'm learning how to kill reliably now. (:
 

Scatz

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#17
Delta took that cause Karamity did it on us lmao. That **** was nasty.

Learn how to make that mixup so when you downB, they don't know what side you'll land (before using it).
 
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Delta-cod

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#18
I don't remember him doing that trap to us. I do remember his last-frame-before-landing-uair being godly, though. I try pulling that on grounded opponents sometimes. SH backwards > crossup last second Uair. Even if they shield it, it's pretty damn safe on block.
 

Depster

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#20
I like to SHFF Uair. Been doing that since 08. One of the easiest ways to kill as long as you stay on the back side of them/their shield.
 

Oz

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#21
I like to SHFF Uair. Been doing that since 08. One of the easiest ways to kill as long as you stay on the back side of them/their shield.
You know, I never really thought of that. Although lately I've been using the C-stick for some aerials (especially for doing the U-Air lower) and it should work well.
If it actually works I know I've been missing on alot.
 

Anragon

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#26
Up-B to Dash attack, I think.


Killing Falco is so funny. I love killing that chicken. Same pleasure with all top tiers btw.

'Cauz Yoshi roars when he does a killmove (except U-air), it makes me feel powerful xD
 

Luigisama

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#29
no you guys are all wrong. Clearly on delfino's flat transformation egg roll into opponent who has 200%. Legit kill setup.
 

Sharky

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#30
I don't remember him doing that trap to us. I do remember his last-frame-before-landing-uair being godly, though. I try pulling that on grounded opponents sometimes. SH backwards > crossup last second Uair. Even if they shield it, it's pretty damn safe on block.
karamity outperformed my upairs, too?

damnit =(
 

jigglover

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#32
Up smash > egg toss into them for pretty much guaranteed star KO if egg toss hits them well. Can also be used egg toss > Up smash, egg toss gets them in air the up smash launches them.
 

Lukingordex

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#33
Isn't Down B in the ground a good kill move?

Fair>Down B in the ground sounds not bad lol. (I think the enemy can easily avoid this with a roll or a tech but anyway...)
 

Nikes

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#34
I've scored quite a few KO's by dropping off the side of a platform and using U-air while falling, they never expect it. :p
Good thread guys, very useful! :bee:
 
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#35
Up-B to Dash attack, I think.


Killing Falco is so funny. I love killing that chicken. Same pleasure with all top tiers btw.

'Cauz Yoshi roars when he does a killmove (except U-air), it makes me feel powerful xD
Yoshis the most underrated character in brawl. I've just registered today, and I'm a little noobish in Brawl. I saw the matchup chart and it said that yoshi has a -2 against meta. And u know what? I disagree. Meta knight, along with wario and snake, is vulnerable to yoshis grab-release combo (grab>chew>release>dash-grab...) And maybe a f-air spike (never tried it yet), and yoshi can grab meta during when he's using drill rush, and egg toss shuts down tornado and drill rush. So yoshi is like between -0.5-0 against meta

:phone:
 
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Z'zgashi

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#36
Yoshi cant Grab Release combo Snake and the fair isnt guaranteed on MK or Wario either. While its true we can destroy Wario if we do get a grab, Wario is easily one of the hardest characters in the game to grab so a good Wario wont be falling for that too often, but the power of it is enough to make it pretty even. And MK being -2 imo is kind, that MU has nowhere to go but up in difficulty if MKs start learning how to play the MU imo.
 

Delta-cod

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#37
MK MU being -2 sounds accurate to me now, actually.

Also, Sharky, Karamity will never outperform the Sharky Uair. Those things are so fun to hit with. I've started using them on Dair camping MKs.
 

Cinnabread

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#39
Hello guys. N00b Yoshi here.

I've been asking for sometime if Yoshi's KO prowess considered bad. Because I honestly think so- I know I'm doing it wrong, but I'm pretty bad with Yoshi anyway.

- How do good Yoshies get the kill most of the time?
- What KO setups could you give me examples of? Anything, anything at all.

Using Yoshi competetively is becoming kind of hard for me because of that. I used to have U-Smash as my KO move. KO setup for that? Just run back and forth like an idiot until the oponent lowers their guard, and THEN strike them with the U-Smash. Doesn't work anymore. And just going for the U-Air when they're in the air doesn't work because they'll always expect it.
Egg to fair is good as well
 

Oz

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#40
This was so long ago, and I've changed a ton from having to rely on said "setups". What I was doing wrong at the time was trying to find those kind of answers in a game where nothing was really garanteed. In Smash 4, people beg for garantees. They can't live without their setups. Ironically, as a Corrin main, that's where I ended up re-shaping that aspect, since Brawl is usually one big, heavy neutral game. Additonally, looking at Zudenka's matches, he seals stocks with U-airs about 90% of the time and focuses his entire game on playing around shields and certain disjoints.
 
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