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Killing with Sheik

Absol

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Just a thread dedicated on how and when to kill with Sheik. Also includes how to kill with Fair


Ftilt: This tilt is a solid multi-use tool. It can be used as an decent anti air, combo starter/stringer, and can even lead to a kill.

>At higher percents ftilt will send the opponent high enough to follow up with a uair and snag a kill. However this is not a true string by any means. There are two circumstances that must be met in order for this to work. One: Your opponent must not be anticipating an ftilt so they cannot D.I away. It is practically inhuman to D.I an ftilt without anticipating it. Two: You are in the typical 50-50 of making your opponent airdodge or jump. If you call the airdodge delay the uair a little bit, then snag them out of it. If you think they wont airdodge and will just jump away for straight for the uair.

>Another way to kill with Sheik including ftilt is to simply ftilt, bait airdodge, to usmash. A seasoned smash player will know to rarely airdodge against Sheik, but if you have been using your ftilt the majority of the game to lead up to your attack strings, you may just net an early kill. This method of killing is unreliable, and the one above is recommended to use more.


Nair: Nair inflicts an incredible amount of stun. enough stun in fact to land a bouncing fish landing a killing blow

>While edge guarding try to cover as many options as you can with nairs long lasting hitbox. All you need is a sour spot, and to land on the ground quickly enough to convert into a bouncing fish. The knockback of nair, coupled with bouncing fish, with full stage control can lead to some quick kills while applying pressure to your opponent.


Dtilt: When tippered this move does fixed vertical knockback. This means that dtilt can lead up to uair for a kill. Whats ever better is that this is a completely true combo at kill percents, but the timing is extremely strict. Dtilt can also lead up to usmash at tight percent windows. With 30% rage sheik can dtilt tipper, to usmash tipper on ROB at about 90-100% and kill on stages with low ceilings such as town and city. Dtilt to usmash is extremely affected by rage, and with little wiggle room it can prove hard to nail this. However if both your percents and your opponents are around the ballpark, give it a shot. On edges dtilt doesnt need to be tippered to get that fixed vertical knocback, and since your opponent will be lower than you it makes it even easier to land a usmash, even at higher percents. This works best when playing on Halbard.


Fsmash: the best applications I’ve found with landing fsmash is by running under auto canceled aerials and pivoting them. This also allows me to charge the smash for a bit while I cross them up. Sheiks posture during her run animation makes her just as small as pikachu running, so he can squeeze under auto cancel aerials and have a fsmash ready.


Needles: ...rising needle storm to bouncing fish. “thats all...really”


Vanish: Can be used to snag opponents out of air dodges, or used as a janky counter. both scenarios can kill


Uair: (my favorite) When this move is completely fresh and sprinkled with some rage, it becomes a very solid kill option. This will be how you will get most of your kills, so use it for killing and not damaging. You want to make sure this move hits when it counts, and when the proper percents are in order. Its followed up from both ftilt and dtilt, as well as grabs. In each of this kill set ups just make sure one thing is in common, keep that uair fresh. Dont use it for racking up damage unless you’re sure you’ll land 9 other hits that wont ruin the set up percents.


Fair: (our new kill move) While some people have turned the cheek about it, fair now has more kbg form the lastest patch. It also has a decent amount of rage growth. What's more is now our sweet spots actually make sense and the tipper is the sweetspot. While edge guarding and having the stage to yourself, fthrow > Tipper fair will kill. dthrow works too if you're banking on your opponents D.I to be away from Sheik. While I would say to keep it fresh, we all know were going to use fair a lot. This is normally a safe way to kill when your opponent is at too high of a percent for other kill set ups to work. If it is fresh somehow, you have a quick attack that grows well with rage, got a buff to knockback growth, and has a sweetspot to amplify the knockback even more. If you are applying pressure towards the edge, get that throw and follow up with your fair and let your opponents cry at her filed nails. Just make sure you land that tipper.
 
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ShinRamen

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Uair: (my favorite) When this move is completely fresh and sprinkled with some rage, it becomes a very solid kill option. This will be how you will get most of your kills, so use it for killing and not damaging. You want to make sure this move hits when it counts, and when the proper percents are in order. Its followed up from both ftilt and dtilt, as well as grabs. In each of this kill set ups just make sure one thing is in common, keep that uair fresh. Dont use it for racking up damage unless you’re sure you’ll land 9 other hits that wont ruin the set up percents.
Crucial
 

_Tree

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Glad we finally have a decent sized thread for this. Good to have this to refer to when people ask how to kill with Sheik.
 

DReager1

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Awesome, this is definitely helpful as I always have an extremely difficult time killing my opponents. Off screen, I like the bouncing fish, but while it always works on For Glory, my opponents seem to air dodge it every time. I'm probably just too obvious in my attempts.
 

KingChaos

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Thanks for that Absol I already knew like all of this but it is a great refresher to read that again I feel so it is all fresh in my mind for my tournaments this weekend. I played you once before I'm TekNo and I've taken what you said to heart about that up air staying fresh and I gotta say it works wonders my dude. Won my past 3 events up here in northeast ohio keeping that little tid bit in mind.
 

Absol

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Thanks for that Absol I already knew like all of this but it is a great refresher to read that again I feel so it is all fresh in my mind for my tournaments this weekend. I played you once before I'm TekNo and I've taken what you said to heart about that up air staying fresh and I gotta say it works wonders my dude. Won my past 3 events up here in northeast ohio keeping that little tid bit in mind.
Nice man, it makes me happy to hear that.
 

kanbaru

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This is totally helpful I've been in the bad habit of following up grabs with up air recently so now I gotta train myself to just avoid uair until there's blood in the water.
 

Euklyd

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Both the fair and dtilt sections have errors.

- dtilt never has fixed knockback. This is less important than my second point, since it WILL combo into uair at kill% when tippered, but it still means that it won't combo into uair past a certain % threshold. [game code] [Kurogane Hammer] (you probably want Kurogane Hammer).
- The changes to fair last patch make it deal less knockback at higher percents than it used to (but only very slightly, like, less than 1% variance). This is true for both the sweetspot and sourspot. This is because knockback is determined not only by BKB and KBG, but also by the damage the move deals, and that was decreased. (I would in fact wager that the increases to KBG and BKB were to make fair not an even better combo tool, and merely compensate knockback-wise for the damage nerf.) [game code]
Note that fixed knockback occurs when BKB = 0, not KBG. This is confusing and makes no sense but it is nevertheless the case.

Also: While I'm not quite confident of my interpretation of the changes to the code, it's not that fair sweetspot / sourspot were switched in position, just which hitbox takes priority over the other. If I'm right about this, it only means that it's harder to sweetspot than it used to be.

These are pretty minor nitpicks tho, I still definitely appreciate the guide. Any tips and tricks to make killing with Sheik easier are always nice!
 

S&U

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Did i miss bouncing fish in kill options? By the way we met at rebirth squeebles introduced us which led to you signing my remote lol. I do find i use up air rarely but this guide definitely reminds me. Also one potential kill set up at mid to high mid percenta depending on distance from the blast zone is a dtilt/ ftilt to a bair followed by a bouncing fish, if you save it for a good time it usually will work i find in my experience.
 

BlastHappyNinja

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I'd like to add something somewhat new to this that may or may not be known about. That would be trapping your opponent with Bfish in a certain situation. I've been experimenting with this for a few days now and like I said, it might already be known, but I'm going to repeat it anyways.

If you go to Uair/UpB your opponent for a kill and they jump rather than air dodge, if you wait it out you can B-fish them and kill them as they're coming back down from the jump. It's pretty effective if they don't expect it, and I find that a lot of the time, they don't. Whether or not this belongs in this thread I don't know, but I've been yacking on these boards for a few months now and haven't really contributed anything. Sooooo....here's my little two cents or reminder, a trick that I like to use against people who expect the Uair or UpB and jump. Yeee.
 

Joaco

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Guys, I don't know if anyone does this but I started doing it yesterday and it's SUPER GOOD.
When you grab your opponent at kill percent, look at his/her controller before throwing. Instead of guessing if they are going to DI in or away, you now know which way they're going to DI. Also, if they are holding towards you, you can fthrow to uair and it's even better.
Be sneaky, don't let them notice about this.
 

Absol

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Guys, I don't know if anyone does this but I started doing it yesterday and it's SUPER GOOD.
When you grab your opponent at kill percent, look at his/her controller before throwing. Instead of guessing if they are going to DI in or away, you now know which way they're going to DI. Also, if they are holding towards you, you can fthrow to uair and it's even better.
Be sneaky, don't let them notice about this.
That's actually extremely disrespectful and a lot of players have been "banned" from their scene for that. Do that on stream enough times and you'll have the worst reputation.
 

Joaco

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There isn't a rule against that, Hungrybox does it on stream, EVO grand finals and no one complains.

This is another discussion, even Daigo Umehara tricks his opponents when sitting side to side. Justin Wong admitted to mash to try to mess up the opponent's timing.
 
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Absol

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I never said there was a rule, I said it was disrespectful.

Do we need a scene where we play with paper bags over our controller?

Edit: plus if no one minds then why did you say be sneaky about it?
 
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Joaco

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That's right. I don't understand why are you annoyed, since this is pretty common in Melee and Brawl and no one cared about it. They used to roll their sticks if they noticed you peak, so the DI is random and you have to guess.
 
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_Tree

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I wouldn't really call it disrespectful, nor ban-worthy. There is a bit of grey area is terms of whether there should be a rule about it, but this stuff happens all the time in the FGC. Generally, when it gets to that 'do anything to win' situation, looking at your opponent's controller is a pretty viable option. Why do you think HungryBox wears those aviator shades when playing?
Obviously, it's more viable as a reasonable strategy than taking Adderall (for example), due to the relative minority of effects it has on the final outcome. Could it mean the difference between a game being won or a game continuing? Yes, but its effect is only on an isolated instance, plus both players have the option of utilizing it. Adderall is a much more severe affair (which has a bunch of grey area of it's own).

I don't do it because I'm too lazy to look down from the screen, but I'd say it's a legit tactic.
 

{Kyro}

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I think the issue arises when your opponent isn't aware that you're doing it. If you think that defeats its purpose, then I would consider you to be cheating
 

ArikadoSD

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I think you don't need to do it in general cus you should be able to react to all kinds of DI in time anyway. And I feel like it would distract me pretty badly.
 

WondrousMoose

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Is there a reason why my bouncing fish will sometimes bounce the opposite way of my direction? Does it happen to everyone? :<
It sounds like you're accidentally B-reversing it. If you're trying to shorten the length of the attack, be careful that you don't move the stick too quickly.
 

ScarletRed012

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It sounds like you're accidentally B-reversing it. If you're trying to shorten the length of the attack, be careful that you don't move the stick too quickly.
Yup I just figured that out today. I thought it was specifically set to the way you're facing. Good to know that that's not the case xD.
 

exnecross

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I've found that weak bair true-combos into reverse BF at kill % A LOT. It is common knowledge that soft nair combos into BF, but I don't usually see Sheiks doing it off bair.

Also, dtilt can true combo into tipper usmash at kill %, but I'd imagine this is DI-dependent.
 
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Absol

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I've found that weak bair true-combos into reverse BF at kill % A LOT. It is common knowledge that soft nair combos into BF, but I don't usually see Sheiks doing it off bair.

Also, dtilt can true combo into tipper usmash at kill %, but I'd imagine this is DI-dependent.
I've tested dtilt to true usmash combo at kill percents long ago. Rage screws it over alot. The only time this is consistent is on ROB and on town and City, or if you dtilt someone without IFs on the ledge since they will be lower. And that's if you don't have 50% rage
 

exnecross

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I've tested dtilt to true usmash combo at kill percents long ago. Rage screws it over alot. The only time this is consistent is on ROB and on town and City, or if you dtilt someone without IFs on the ledge since they will be lower. And that's if you don't have 50% rage
I just did it last night on FD and I am like 95% sure it was a true combo. It is obviously dependent on a lot of factors like rage, DI, and character weight, but it does work and I would be interested to know when it works because it is an easy kill setup.
 

Absol

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I just did it last night on FD and I am like 95% sure it was a true combo. It is obviously dependent on a lot of factors like rage, DI, and character weight, but it does work and I would be interested to know when it works because it is an easy kill setup.
This is the one occasion where you can actually test this in training mode and see if its a true combo with 0% rage. By the time it starts to stop true combo you'll notice it won't kill. You then have to fiddle with the ratio of rage vs percent in order to make some kind of 4% window to work before those two factors get a divorce. If I thought this set up was practical kill set up I would've listed it. But it hardly is.
 

exnecross

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This is the one occasion where you can actually test this in training mode and see if its a true combo with 0% rage. By the time it starts to stop true combo you'll notice it won't kill. You then have to fiddle with the ratio of rage vs percent in order to make some kind of 4% window to work before those two factors get a divorce. If I thought this set up was practical kill set up I would've listed it. But it hardly is.
Situational, yes, but during the times it will work it is the optimal thing to do. Most Sheiks probably won't even think to do it, but knowledge is half the battle.
 

exnecross

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K dude. Guess that means you're volunteering to make the thread.
I was just offering more kill options that I didn't see in the OP, no need to get defensive.

Nice thread btw. It should help people out.
 
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Lu?3Z9

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Note that fixed knockback occurs when BKB = 0, not KBG. This is confusing and makes no sense but it is nevertheless the case.
Really?
That is dumber than Roy having super armour and invincibility coded on the same frames of his up-special.
 

boneflesh

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is it possible to kill with strong nair into bf or usmash? does it have to be weak nair? can it kill with some specific chars?
 

Envoy_

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is it possible to kill with strong nair into bf or usmash? does it have to be weak nair? can it kill with some specific chars?
I think strong nair to bouncing fish can be a kill set up on heavies. I've personally never messed with it, but it sounds like a potentially good set up.
 

Darklink401

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Looking through this thread,I noticed no one mentioned uptilt. I am no Sheik expert (I use her semi-casually), but I was messin around and thought it interesting that the combo counter seemed to register uptilt to bouncing fish as a combo at kill % (since I've never seen it used before)


I wanna test it out a bit more, but it'd be interesting to post it here to either share a neat thing, or find out why it's actually not a neat thing x3

Thoughts?
 
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