KIDs ATs (only high level Sonics need enter here) NOW WITH CHAR. SPECIFIC ATS!!!

[Chis]

Oh, I know that. I was assuming after frame 13, but you mean Sonic does it to early to auto-cancel it right?

 

[da K.I.D.]

actually, i dont think sonics back air counts as an autocanceled airial. i think its just one of those moves that just is really low lag in general.

AC is more like wolfs fair.

 

[Anthinus]

I knew that Falco Bair will cause some polemic. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it don't have a hitbox...

Sorry I could not have a better example for all of you. If you gimme some time... Even if you don't manage to get the bair hitbox, you can turnaround grab. You are completly right KID, he was waiting to get hit, but waht he got is a grab instead.

The importance about this "AT" (or Adv move/input if you want to look it like that. I think there are AT that are easier than this... Wolf canceled SH fair is easier than this IMO) is that you can grab your opponent if they got shield stun, tried to grab you with laggy grab, tried to ftilt out of shield, spotdodged or simple they was waiting something else. If you want to keep your offense and not space in a specific moment, this is for you.

If you practice this it won't hurt you. Its sexy...

 

[~TBS~]

So, BTAG ensures that your bairs cant be shield grabbed? because if I am right, you bair, they shield, you turn around and grab them. That means that shielding bair will still get them hurt in the long run. I gotta practice up on this, man.

 

[Camalange]

What if they powershield the bair? Then could they get a "power grab" before we have time to grab them, seeing the shield stun would then be gone?

And yeah, Bair has low ending lag. It autocancels too, but even if you don't autocancel it, you can pretty much SHFFBair all day without punishment unless you're insanely sloppy with it.

SIDENOTE: Choice mindgamed me with his avatar...it's KID's old one >_>

 

[Anthinus]

So, BTAG ensures that your bairs cant be shield grabbed? because if I am right, you bair, they shield, you turn around and grab them. That means that shielding bair will still get them hurt in the long run. I gotta practice up on this, man.

+

If you Bair too far from the floor you'll get grabbed. If you do it too near the hitbox will never appear. Keep that in mind when you practice

What if they powershield the bair? Then could they get a "power grab" before we have time to grab them, seeing the shield stun would then be gone?

And yeah, Bair has low ending lag. It autocancels too, but even if you don't autocancel it, you can pretty much SHFFBair all day without punishment unless you're insanely sloppy with it.

SIDENOTE: Choice mindgamed me with his avatar...it's KID's old one >_>

Powershield beats any single hitbox attacks, this isn't an exception of course my friend.

And you are right about the SHFFBair, but the probs are this: You become super predictable if you choose to spam bair and Bair's KO potencial will decrease like crazy cuz you're using your most reliable KO move too much... For that kind of probs BTAG is an interesting solution.

BTAG is something unexpected by your opponent. If you practice this you'll see what I mean... You'll don't have to do this every time you do a Bair, but you'll know when to do it (look how I BTAGed CFalcon in the vid, I didn't spam BTAG I just knew it was a good moment to use it...)

 

[aeghrur]

If you do BTAG perfectly, wouldn't it Not have a hitbox?
Like, it's basically another cancel move? Dude, that'd be so awesome, lol.
People wouldn't know when your b-airs have hitboxes or not. Mindgame potential much? ^_^
So, if your Bair doesn't have a hitbox, they can't powershield it, lol.
They won't know they can't, and they'll still be waiting, as KID said, for the visual confirmation, and you grab them. KID is 2 good, lol.

 

[Camalange]

And you are right about the SHFFBair, but the probs are this: You become super predictable if you choose to spam bair and Bair's KO potencial will decrease like crazy cuz you're using your most reliable KO move too much... For that kind of probs BTAG is an interesting solution.

No no no no.

I wasn't saying TO SPAM it all the time, lolol. I'm just saying it's hard to punish Bair's "ending lag" since it's so minuscule and can be auto canceled.

BTAG is something unexpected by your opponent. If you practice this you'll see what I mean... You'll don't have to do this every time you do a Bair, but you'll know when to do it (look how I BTAGed CFalcon in the vid, I didn't spam BTAG I just knew it was a good moment to use it...)

I know not to spam moves XD
I'm not predictable, believe me, I'm legit >_>
i go 2 trounies an plase well i swear D:

Sorry, I guess I worded my post really wrong.

Anyway, I think I misunderstood the point of BTAG, but I get it now. I thought it was basically hitting with the bair, have it shielded, but then grab...you're referring to using the Bair so you don't really attack...then grab...

Mkay.

 

[aeghrur]

My God, I can't get it canceled within the 3 frames though. >_<

 

[Anthinus]

If you do BTAG perfectly, wouldn't it Not have a hitbox?
Like, it's basically another cancel move? Dude, that'd be so awesome, lol.
People wouldn't know when your b-airs have hitboxes or not. Mindgame potential much? ^_^
So, if your Bair doesn't have a hitbox, they can't powershield it, lol.
They won't know they can't, and they'll still be waiting, as KID said, for the visual confirmation, and you grab them. KID is 2 good, lol.

LOL, If you cancel your bair then I supose you can call that BCTAG, LOL.

Exactly what you're a saying is what happened to the falco in the vid. This thing don't only have the potencial to mindgame, there can be used to do other things: Do it a bit away of your opponent to lure him rush into your BTAG , or after the bair you can intercept ftilts/dash attacks/smashes/etc out of their shield.

And I'll take your advice aeghrur, thanks a lot, it looks like they need to see it with their own eyes. You are a bit sceptical guys, aren't you?

EDIT: CALAMANGE DUDE! THATS EXACTLY WHAT IM TRYING TO COMUNICATE! At last someone understood. Hit with the bair (I think if you hit the shield could work too) and then grab is imposible... Well maybe at 0% or so... have to test

Don't worry, I belive you are legit and do not spam Bair like crazy and I belive you are unpredictable too, don't worry! I didn't understand what you meant, sorry!

 

[choice_brawler]

What if they powershield the bair? Then could they get a "power grab" before we have time to grab them, seeing the shield stun would then be gone?

And yeah, Bair has low ending lag. It autocancels too, but even if you don't autocancel it, you can pretty much SHFFBair all day without punishment unless you're insanely sloppy with it.

SIDENOTE: Choice mindgamed me with his avatar...it's KID's old one >_>

Well the powershield issue is removed if your bair doesnt have a hitbox. I was trying this out today while playing some friends. I mostly did BCTAG's and they all were waiting for the hit confirmation like you said and then the shield grab, which never came =) I doubt they really realized what was happening. I mean for the most part, non-sonic mains dont know whats going on during a fight with sonic.

RESPONSE TO SIDENOTE: Oh sorry, didnt know. KH ftw.

 

[Camalange]

Okay, I finally get the whole BTAG concept, I'm too slow :/

I love it.

But I was also thinking of this. Retreating Bair Cancel > Reverse Dash Attack? It could be useful to fluster your opponent and catch off guard if they're not within grabbing range.

 

[Trillion]

I was playing FFA yesterday (unfortunately) and I gave this a try a little bit. I really need to practice the timing to make sure that I turn around instead of grabbing in front of me as well as making sure that my shield doesn't come up. But the few times that I did it right I could tell that my opponent was like wait... what? It's pretty nice and I'm gonna have to start using it. Good stuff KID and Anthinus.

 

[Anthinus]

@Calamange: You got the point dude, 2 thumbs up 4 u!

Excellent! That idea Looks pretty good... You can Bair and buffer back+c-stick down to perform a reverse dash attack. Sounds super sexy!

Look at this: You bair at a opponent, the opponent shields up, when you hit the shield bair pushes him away, you buffer a running grab... All of this have to be tested

EDIT: @mm: Thanx dude! This is useful stuff and don't need to much practice, when you get used to it is pice 'o cake. To get the timing you can Bair and hold back, as soon as you cancel press Z like crazy. Then press Z less times and you see when the shield buffers and when the reverse grab do.

 

[aeghrur]

How do you guys do this so easily?
I need practice... lol, maybe this friday. =P

 

[Kinzer]

You play too much Melee for your own good Aegz.

Play some more Barlw, and it will feel natural.

 

[aeghrur]

Lol, maybe Kinzer, maybe.

 

[Ref]

Too hard....

Too many ATs...

Oh well I'll go play a practically AT less sonic

 

[Camalange]

Ref showing an in interest in Sonic?

This really isn't an AT thread, more like a "things Sonic can do that you should keep in mind" thread.

Notice how it's for highly level Sonics only who have a total comprehension of the character

 

[choice_brawler]

How do you guys do this so easily?
I need practice... lol, maybe this friday. =P

Just spend a few minutes in like training mode, you'll get the hang of things really quickly.

 

[memphischains]

everyone knows about the slanted slide right?

 

[memphischains]

that was a serious question

my browser > mcfoxes

 

[da K.I.D.]

explain this slanted slide.

me knows not what you speak of.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Just spend a few minutes in like training mode, you'll get the hang of things really quickly.

I thought you were KID.
But then I saw you weren't.

 

[memphischains]

on corneria you can cancel a spindash into anything on the slant that leads to the tip of the fin. i know people knew about it on things like green hill zone with the rounded hill, but i wasn't sure about on the corneria fin

the easiest to do is up tilt

i did a nasty combo where a did a spin charge > downtilt > fsmash agianst an MK last saterday. but i tested it and it can be done into anything.

 

[da K.I.D.]

yes i knew about that but i never took the time to look at it, since corneria and GHZ recntly caught the bann hammer in my area

 

[Ayaz18]

been a while since I was on these boards lol

I'll try to contribute something towards Sonic's meta-game as I do use him in tournament play..........so i'll start by saying that Sonic's tilts are AMAZING, Ftilt pokes quickly and safely, Dtilt has a huge range, and Utilt combo's from Dtilt.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Ftilt pokes quickly and safely, Dtilt has a huge range, and Utilt combo's from Dtilt.

Known, known and known

We still need to remind ourselves Tilts exsist
We don't use them nearly enough as we should.

PROTIP: F-tilt tip (1 hit) does more knockback than F-tilt close range (2 hits)

 

[Ayaz18]

yeah I know, when I played Kid and teamed with him I was surprised that he didn't use Ftilt that much.......he used Dtilt but against Fox for obvious reasons...........

but seriously Sonic mains should use Ftilt as much as they spin-dash

 

[Jim Morrison]

...To cancel?

I honestly never Spindash in a match. If I want to go to SDR, I'll use Spincharge. I use Spindash to recover, Spinshot and fakeout, no more O_o.

 

[da K.I.D.]

than you are bad, spindash is like the ultimate punisher, aside from dash attack. you can control the timing and its comboes into up air 95% of the time, maybe more

PROTIP
downtilt doesnt always combo into up tilt, thats why grab is a better follow up.

 

[Jim Morrison]

PORTIP: I are bad

 

[memphischains]

protip: dont play sonic

 

[Kinzer]

Protip: You got to play Steak instead, Sonic don exits as a teribad char in Barlw.

On-Topic: Hey Kid, are you familiar with the USmash-spike? That would be pretty sweet to get more people aware of and to look out for.

 

[Camalange]

Protip: Memphis stated the slant trick we knew from like 4 months ago.

Camtip: Ayaz, have you forever dropped Falcon for Sonic?

Kinzertip: The Usmash spike is way to DI / Damage dependent to really go for purposely in a match. I mean, it's cool as balls when it works, but it's not something you have control over.

 

[Jim Morrison]

U-smash is something like 11 hitboxes. They all send you in a direction. First up, 2nd a bit to the left, 3rd a bit more, 4th at 45 degrees to left, 5th more, and so on. At a certain one, if you DI out, the hitbox just sends you in that direction. It happens to me in training mode on dummies with no DI at around 50-70%

 

[Kinzer]

Me and Magnum were talking about this last night, he says that it can be replicated - wather only somewhat or at the Sonic player's full will, I didn't catch that one too well.

I say it's sketchy as is, if all the known variables were figured out to get it done it's hard, and is perhaps DI dependent, therefore it's only a good thing when it happens but not something to look forward too.

 

[infomon]

Whoah, Ayaz posts here nao?

Dude you should come to the Ottawa tourney that's coming up..... Sonic ditto MM ftw!

 

[Kinzer]

Infzy, you would lose.

Have you forgotten you're the worst Sonic player?

<3

 

[infomon]

I knoez... I'd MM to hopefully get better