Kid Icarus Uprising

[Linkshot]

I think the top weapons in the game right now are Lancer / Great Reaper / Taurus.

 

[DunnoBro]

High weapon value always would trump your lower weapon value.

Stopped reading here, not only not true, but there's distinct disadvantages to using high value weapons vs low value.

But there's also weapon which function exceptionally well with little value. Value means nothing, don't confuse it for efficiency.

Your problem seems to be you dislike people taking the time to perfect their weapons, and think they shouldn't be rewarded for it as much as they are.

I will agree, fusion should be easier though. If it was at the point of just making pretty much any weapon within the span of a week, fusion would be much better.

If it was at the point where that mostly casuals would be unable to make 320+ value weapons, but able to hit anything below that with 3-5 specific mods consistently, there'd be far greater averages of high level player throughout random.

@Link: Other's are really good, but lancer is kind of slow. Brawlers are def the best 1v1 weapon. Cancelation brawlers have lots of auto-win MUs, mostly even after that, then very few disadvantageous(mostly cannons, midknight palm, guardian orbs, or highly armored melee)

 

[RespawningJesus]

Stopped reading here, not only not true, but there's distinct disadvantages to using high value weapons vs low value.

But there's also weapon which function exceptionally well with little value. Value means nothing, don't confuse it for efficiency.

Your problem seems to be you dislike people taking the time to perfect their weapons, and think they shouldn't be rewarded for it as much as they are.

I will agree, fusion should be easier though. If it was at the point of just making pretty much any weapon within the span of a week, fusion would be much better.

If it was at the point where that mostly casuals would be unable to make 320+ value weapons, but able to hit anything below that with 3-5 specific mods consistently, there'd be far greater averages of high level player throughout random.

I suggest you read the whole thing. Not only that, but your failure to read it all makes me believe that you are biased. As such, I have no respect for your opinion.

I do not dislike people who spend time to fuse weapons. I dislike people leaning on their weapons like a crutch. They don't have superior skills, just superior weapons. If they actually had better skills than me, then I don't care what weapon they had, they are obviously better than me, which is what I can respect.

@Life I don't have fun if I don't use my favorite weapons. Why should I use anything less when I can have more fun using what I like? I have seen too many high weapons be a crutch for a player in this game to enjoy it anymore, or take it serious as a competitive game of any sort.

(Heck, the game was most likely never intended to be serious, but I need that competition to keep things interesting.)

 

[Linkshot]

Why should I use anything less when I can have more fun using what I like?

I want to point out here that I think a tactic when designing competitive games is to make a character look cool but function terribly to help separate casual players (play it for their favourites, which are likely to be non-viable in higher-level play) and competitors (play it for the technical aspects of every character and flock to those with the best potential for their playstyle).

This doesn't make a competitive game bad at all. In fact it could potentially make it much better due to the realization when you cross that bridge into tournament play. Maybe it goes against your moral values, but opposing morals doesn't make a person completely invalid.

Anyway, on the note of "Looks cool, functions terribly"...

Jetstream Orbitars

Discuss.

 

[Life]

I'm curious what, exactly, it is you like DAK. We could probably help you.

I'm also curious how we're supposed to tell between someone who has a good weapon and relies on it, and someone who has a good weapon and is good.

 

[RespawningJesus]

I'm curious what, exactly, it is you like DAK. We could probably help you.

I'm also curious how we're supposed to tell between someone who has a good weapon and relies on it, and someone who has a good weapon and is good.

You get a good feel for how a player plays. You can tell if they are playing sloppy or if they have a good idea of what they are doing. And I'm not talking about someone having a bad game sloppy. I'm talking about just bad sloppy.

As for weapons I prefer to use:
Raptor Claws
Drill Arms
Crusader Blades
Sagittarius Bow
Aurum Orbitars
Viridi Palms
Black Clubs
Flintlock Staves

@Linkshot: I respect other people's opinion, even if it is an opinion that conflicts my own. However, I have little respect for an opinion when only they take into consideration just one sentence of my own.

 

[Life]

I kinda found that confusing.

Raptors are easy. A bunch of melee stars and either MC or MDA depending on your playstyle. Then whatever filler you feel like or happen to have.
Drill and Crusader I'm not sure about.
I always played Sagit for EC OHKOs but apparently it's better for continuous fire or something?
Dunno about Aurums or Viridi Palm.
Black Club I always wanted to make with SCS and use Invisible Shots, but I'm sure there are other ways to go about it.
And I already told you just how easy it is to make a decent Flintlock.

You said you liked competition right? So I'm assuming 1v1 or LVD?

For 1v1, I'd run the Raptors, use Super or Aries Armor to deal with ranged weapons, and whatever you feel like. For LVD, I'm partial to Flintlock myself (I used to wreck LVD randoms with my only-somewhat-optimized flintlock but no wifi in my college dorms makes me sad now), but my guess is that any of those are workable provided you play to their strengths.

So basically what you want to do is get all your melee-star or ranged-star only weapons together, find one with a mod or two you like, and basically just screw around until you get them on a pair of whatever weapon you're looking for. Not too hard provided you play enough to have a lot of weapons.

 

[RespawningJesus]

1v1s are boring, so LvD. Sadly, I have no idea what MC or MDA is. Most likely it is some ability for weapons, but I just don't play the game anymore.

 

[Linkshot]

Crusader Blade has risen to one of my all-time favourite weapons, up there with Upperdash Arm.

For Crusader Blade, the bonuses you'll want are Backward Dash Ch. Shot, Shot Cancellation, and Shot Range. Good play with a Crusader can trump any ranged assault. I run mine with a catch-all power set, and not with streamlined mods. Let me pull up the whole thing for you.

Ranged: 5.5
Melee: 1
Overall defense +1 / Running speed +3
Poison +4 / In-peril autododge +1
Shot homing +2

Lv. 1 Angelic Missile, Lv. 1 Quick Charge, Lv. 3 Tempura Attack, Lv. 1 Darkness, Lv. 1 Lightweight

Angelic Missile is in case I end up the Angel, so I have a get-out-of-death-free button, and for just escaping general assault.

Quick Charge helps turn the tides against Eyetracks and Great Reapers and makes for great angel hunting with...

..Tempura Attack, which I usually save (with a new group) until their angel appears, so they don't expect it at all. If I notice the standard Taurus Arm set, though, I'll throw it on so they end up wasting their Trade-Off (status doesn't care about x0 damage mods!).

Darkness helps to neutral Claws and Arms so I can pick them off. Crusader's one weakness is being pretty slow at defending a melee assault, so Darkness helps here.

Lightweight is for escaping a tight situation, quickly getting to a mid-range teammate for support, or chasing down an angel.

Crusader Blade is best played as a support weapon. You can keep the Eyetrack occupied with your high shot cancellation, force opponents into bad positions with the backdash, and generally just block lethal shots for your front line.

If you can find an exhausted opponent, your heaviest combo is a Backdash to Forward Dash, with both landing simultaneously.

 

[DunnoBro]

I dislike people leaning on their weapons like a crutch. They don't have superior skills, just superior weapons.

So, essentially... You don't like the game because players with better weapons have an advantage over players with worse weapons?

Behold Gentlemen. The average casual's mindset. Plaguing competitive communities since pokemon red/blue.
Brush him off and move on.

 

[RespawningJesus]

So, essentially... You don't like the game because players with better weapons have an advantage over players with worse weapons?

Behold Gentlemen. The average casual's mindset. Plaguing competitive communities since pokemon red/blue.
Brush him off and move on.

OK powerhouse, whatever you say.

Obviously, you are an expert in this field. So please, tell me at how is it even competitive when the better weapon wins over skill.

Tale this scenario and use it in your explanation to give me the best idea on why you think it is competitive: How is it competitive when a person spends two hours fusing weapons vs. a person who plays the game for two hours, slowly gaining more skill, but the person with the better weapon via fusion beats the person with the more skill?

Other people, you can join in on this, for I am curious on your thoughts.

 

[Life]

If someone can spend two hours fusing weapons, and the other guy has spent the same amount of time in game as that guy, he can probably make a weapon that's like 90% as good in 5-10 minutes. Time spent fusing good weapons works on diminishing returns.

MC and MDA are Melee Combo and Melee Dash Attack. Very common mods, you probably have a bunch of weapons with them if you'd bother to check.

Not wanting the perfect weapon is fine. Not wanting to spend ten minutes to fuse a reasonably good weapon is lazy.

 

[Linkshot]

DAK, none of my weapons were planned fusions. I just happened to either snag them as a drop or mindlessly chain boosts I liked until something awesome showed up.

The better weapons are awarded to the better players.

 

[DunnoBro]

So please, tell me at how is it even competitive when the better weapon wins over skill.

Because it doesn't. The combination of better player/weapon wins.

Stop being bad, weapons don't win games. Players and their weapons do.
Also, everyone has the same potential for fusion (excluding streetpassers, which are pretty rare and a non-issue at this time.) if you're unable to make as good a weapon as them, it's because you're not as good at one of the following:

Solo/Grinding
Fusion
TheoryCraft

All of which are skills, and complaining about losing to them despite your multi-player skill being superior, but everything else being inferior... is silly. Think of this game like pokemon, or other multiplayer rpgs. Rather than a fighter, which is why MKDH is tearing his hair out over the game.

It's a lot to work on for a casual like you, but whining about it won't solve anything. Either actually improve, or give up. It seems like you're choosing the latter...

 

[Life]

Objection: I actually do think of this game like a fighter (at least the shooting parts anyway) with a ton of highly customizable character options. You can't expect every single option to be as good as all the others (hi there poison), but you can expect a lot of viable options and strategies just from the sheer number available.

And to borrow an analogy seen elsewhere on these forums, I don't think "stop being bad" is gonna help any more than "stop drinking" would help an alcoholic. Hence why I'm trying to talk DAK through the process of fusing a moderately decent weapon rather than just bashing him.

 

[---]

I thought we agreed not to argue about balance.

Anyway for the most part I agree with what powerhouse is saying, it really just depends on how far you get into game/practice, practice, practice. And being a game like Mario Kart, if you lose, just blame it on your teammates (LvD) or people stealing your kills (FfA). lol

 

[DunnoBro]

(hi there poison)

Poison is actually very potent on a stalling weapon. But most people can't make it since it needs a highly refined weapon, and is only any good in 1v1. (since in ffa/lvd, they can just ignore you since it's impossible to kill you. And it's also very slow)

But it can go max def/health, max evasion/stamina, and poison +4 so it kills in 2-3 hits while starless if waited for poison damage. (Needing starless to be under 300 and viable is the Biggest reason it isn't seen often)

But it's definitely a ridic 1v1 weapon. Stealth claws are easier to kill with with the pure damage evade/stam combo, but can't beat cancelation brawlers(trades with their cont fire ). These have a very good mu against them. (breaks through all shots)
Also, inherent shot speed, poison, fox trot distance to make dodging MUCH easier, and charge times on scorpio staff make it very versatile with the evasion/stamina.

Burning, while better than poison when it activates, doesn't have any weapons like scorpio to utitlize this strategy properly.

 

[RespawningJesus]

It's a lot to work on for a casual like you, but whining about it won't solve anything. Either actually improve, or give up. It seems like you're choosing the latter...

If I wanted to play an RPG I would. Anyways, time for all if you to quit assuming that I'm a lazy player who never/refuses to fuse.

Drill Arm
Value:270
Ranged: 1.5
Melee: 3.0
Overall Defense +2
Paralysis +1
Shot Range +3
Stamina +1
Standing Charge Shot +1
Backward-dash charge shot +1

Aurum Orbitars:
Value: 255
Ranged: 5.5
Melee: 0.0
Shot Defense +1
Poison +1
Stamina +1
Standing continuous fire +2
In-peril autododge +2

So now that we have established that I have no problem with fusion, let us also establish the fact that I hate fusion for how it kills competition.

OK, so I can take on anyone who has a value rating between 100-320ish easy. Anything above is requiring perfect game play.

What makes something competitive? Skill vs. skill. Not weapon vs. weapon. When all is said I done I want to be able to say, I won/lost because I was the better/worse player. Not the player with the better/worse gear.

 

[DunnoBro]

Those are garbage lol. Tons of wasted value, and it's been a pretty universal agreeance that multi star weapons are bad.

Even if you are fusing, you aren't getting too into it/good at it. No offense. I mean, there's not even a neg mod.
Like i said, get some skills. Then you can start complaining. There's no excuse for not having negative mods, you can get them by idling/speed running chapter 1 for christ's sake.

Anyway, if you want skill vs skill without any other possible variables, go play pong. This game has matchups, strategies, pseudo-levels, restrictions, and rewards people who put in the work to be good.

This game is neither skill vs skill nor weapon vs weapon. It's nothing so simple, and if you want a game that simple, you're playing the wrong game. And it's quite obvious from your weapons that you're inexperienced anyway, so i feel no need to continue explaining things to you. You're essentially trying to take the team you beat the elite 4 with within 20 hours and crying because they get steamrolled by smogon kids.

Go play, stop being lazy AND GRIND, get better, get some experience, then come back.

Until then, the conversation is left pinned, and i leave you with this universal message i think you can learn from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WHptG35EWU

GOOD DAYS

 

[Linkshot]

Made this earlier today for a reddit thread, relevant here: Lazy man's LvD sets

Played a lot with the Aquarius Blade today. Ran into a guy named "Demie" and became rivals after a few games, with our last match putting us both as the angel and playing super careful, until I lured him down and Cutter Palm finished him. (playing on that stage that plays That Burning Town)

 

[Master Knight DH]

Let me summarize the weapon thing:

Hey, DunnoBro, I have a L100 Mewtwo and I know you have only a L5 Bulbasaur. I am better than you, n00b.

 

[RespawningJesus]

Those are garbage lol. Tons of wasted value, and it's been a pretty universal agreeance that multi star weapons are bad.

Even if you are fusing, you aren't getting too into it/good at it. No offense. I mean, there's not even a neg mod.
Like i said, get some skills. Then you can start complaining. There's no excuse for not having negative mods, you can get them by idling/speed running chapter 1 for christ's sake.

Anyway, if you want skill vs skill without any other possible variables, go play pong. This game has matchups, strategies, pseudo-levels, restrictions, and rewards people who put in the work to be good.

This game is neither skill vs skill nor weapon vs weapon. It's nothing so simple, and if you want a game that simple, you're playing the wrong game. And it's quite obvious from your weapons that you're inexperienced anyways . . .

Go play, stop being lazy AND GRIND, get better, get some experience, then come back.

Seriously kid? Yes, I am not into the whole idea of fusion. Why? Because it is not fun. For me anyways. Understanding it is just a hassle too. (I don't want homework with my games.). As for weapons: you see them in terms of value. I see them in terms of what they can do. Probably not the best approach, but its been working. (8-5 kills on average per round, 1-2 deaths. Good rounds I can go double digits, terrible rounds I can go negative. It happens.) So it is not a matter if I am lazy or not, its a matter if something is fun or not.

Edit:
As for this game not being a very competitive one, I am an idiot for not mentioning this earlier and instead going around in circles this whole time. The game was never designed to be competitive. This is most likely my biggest problem. A game that is not designed to be competitive drives any competitive gamer nuts. So many variables that cater a weaker player and gives them a chance is frustrating at times. However, if a game is fun, a game is fun. Why so serious? I honestly don't know. Sorry guys for flaring up this thread with some of my bs.

 

[Linkshot]

Not competitive? Melee wasn't meant to be competitive, and see how well that turned out.

Uprising is the only PvP game I regularly play lately. That should say something about how competitive I feel it is, regardless of intention.

In the end, weapon value is no issue, because you still dodge (or cancel) the bullet exactly the same way.

 

[Life]

Welp, MKDH commented, guess there's no point in arguing.



(His analogy is actually perfect. Problem is that it's not really meaningful.)

 

[Master Knight DH]

You say it's not meaningful? Hah! Shows that you couldn't debate how useful flying in Mario games is to a first grader.

 

[Linkshot]

Your analogy doesn't fit here. In Pokemon, all technical skill boils down to just training your Pokemon. If Uprising was entirely weapon grinding and fusing, with absolutely no combat (just my weapon is better than yours), it would be relevant, but it's not.

I'll admit that the whole weapon portion feels so much like Pokemon, but there's a whole other aspect to it that Pokemon lacks. Since Pokemon is a turn-based RPG, there's no room for reflex and similar skills to be used. Uprising has a combination of fighter and FPS to its combat, so the weapon is only half, if even, of the battle. If you can't dodge in time, you lose.

 

[RespawningJesus]

Not competitive? Melee wasn't meant to be competitive, and see how well that turned out.

Uprising is the only PvP game I regularly play lately. That should say something about how competitive I feel it is, regardless of intention.

In the end, weapon value is no issue, because you still dodge (or cancel) the bullet exactly the same way.

I clearly said the game was not DESIGNED to be competitive. Melee was not DESIGNED to be competitive either. Learn to read. Community makes things competitive. However, doesn't mean that people have to agree with a game being competitive or not.

As for dodging . . . humans aren't perfect. Sometimes you mess up. And sometimes you have no room for error if you decide to use an average weapon. Sometimes I just wish that you could "reset " a weapon with the push of a button. No stars, no abilities no nothing. Just you, your weapon, your abilities, your tact, your skill.

 

[---]

I'll admit that the whole weapon portion feels so much like Pokemon, but there's a whole other aspect to it that Pokemon lacks. Since Pokemon is a turn-based RPG, there's no room for reflex and similar skills to be used. Uprising has a combination of fighter and FPS to its combat, so the weapon is only half, if even, of the battle. If you can't dodge in time, you lose.

Pretty much this if you ask me. The weapon is only as good as the player using it.

Of course there are other factors involved such as teammates, powers, items, and stages. A game requiring skill but with a random element thrown in, definitely reminds me of Mario Kart and Smash. lol

 

[Linkshot]

The items are nowhere near the level of influence they have in Mario Kart and Smash, though. The stages are huge, and items few and far between, with very simple (and never adverse) effects. They essentially become an extra Power or a temporary new weapon. I think items were hit right on the nose with this game.

 

[DunnoBro]

Power drop is the only really bs item. All the others are oneshots with very limited effectiveness without item attack + or recovery effect +

Though smart bomb is essentially an OHKO. Definitely 2nd on the bs meter(but way farther down), but after those two, it becomes pretty tame.

 

[Linkshot]

Do status effects pierce Power-Up Drop like they do Brief Invinc?
Also you can Warp out of Smart Bomb, and if you had Lightweight on, you just get knocked out of it early.

 

[DunnoBro]

You might be able to inflict with a melee attack, but unlike brief, power drop reflects projectiles instead of just neutralize so can't inflict.

And well, that's good if you already have them, but it's probably not the best idea to pack them just to deal with a smart bomb which MIGHT come.

 

[Life]

If you're that worried about smart bombs, run an item abuse set yourself?

 

[DunnoBro]

I'm not worried at all, just stating that power drop, and smart bombs are pretty much the only items you could really argue being gamebreaking.

 

[Master Knight DH]

I know this topic is several years old, but I was able to display Grid Reading:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEGo1hIizyY&t=1h5m12s
Considering that Kevas-Z wasn't using a line power like Bumblebee or a full row/column power like leveled Slip Shot, that should definitely be headway.

Here's my recommended banlist for future organized matches:
-ALL weapon modifiers (V100 weapons only--and no negative mods to get around this either)
-Powers: Warp, Lightweight, Brief Invincibility, Celestial Fireworks, and Random
-Weapons: Raptor Claws, Brawler Claws, and Taurus Arm (Samurai Blade might be added, but nothing else should even approach bogus)
-Stages: Windy Wasteland, Lava Basin, Small Arena, Large Arena (may add Rail Temple too)

My explanations for each ban:

Spoiler

-All weapon modifiers - explained here in a 7000 word post:
https://warriorsuprising.wordpress.com/2014/04/15/weapon-modifier-banning/
The summary is that weapon modifiers are capable of *WAY* too many abuses even without Shot Range+ and Evasion+, simply because they are too powerful, Value has backwards handling, and the angel simply can barely stagger ONE min-maxer and that's if they do NOT get bad spawning luck. Each of these problems, individually, is too much.

Powers:
-Warp - Warp is better than Super Speed in almost every situation for how little it costs. Considering it can be used as an easy crutch that neuters the punishment for bad positioning, this is more powerful than it has a right to and ends up generally creating unwhelcome character bias.

-Lightweight - double movement is ridiculous and even allows any weapon to walk faster than they normally run. So yep, not only is walking made easier, running is too because Lightweight also halves stamina costs. Even if this could be tolerable, keeping in mind that Lightweight barely costs more than Tirelessness, Lightweight also has a nasty habit of causing lag. And don't even bring up the defense drop, because it is way too miniscule to justify any of this.

-Brief Invincibility - blunts singleton strike damage for too little cost. This begs to invite overthinking and exploitation of the character select screen.

-Celestial Fireworks - provides way too many charges of momentary invincibility, which is short for the same problems with Brief Invincibility.

-Random - now Random could roll Fortune's Jukebox or a useless power or even an outright liability....or it can roll something like Slip Shot that would be ridiculous if not for its full row/column cost (what, you think I don't understand how powerful ignoring terrain can get?). This interferes with Grid Reading and costs too little for something that can easily turn the game into outright luck.

Weapons:
-Raptor Claws - mindless melee power? Check. Easy mobility? Check. Stamina is unlikely to come into play? Check. Brain-dead gameplay? Check.

-Brawler Claws - Raptor Claws V2.0. See above for this cheap, obnoxious JoJo's Bizarre Adventure advertisement.

-Taurus Arm - not as mobile as Raptor Claws, but more powerful and has too much Shot Cancellation to snipe this nightmare.

-Samurai Blade - this is a possibility right now, but nothing firm as things stand. It's quite possible Samurai Blade can pull some mindless melee gameplay like the other 3, however, due to having so much attack power and speed up close. Definitely review.

Stages:
-Windy Wasteland - ridiculous size and low amount of terrain cover in tandem with a lack of way to appraoch from the center results in easy character bias as well as circle camping.

-Lava Basin - now here players can head to the center, but it works *AGAINST* anybody without range due to inability to corner anybody who is perimeter camping, which has the net result of the same bias as Windy Wasteland. There is also too much abyss death potential.

-Rail Temple - on paper, this is an instant ban because of the big size with low terrain cover and awful approaching ability. In practice, the center can still be used for approaching a camper and the Grind Rails can still be handy for overcoming mobility problems. This is worth reviewing for now, though a ban wouldn't exactly be surprising.

-Small/Large Arena - no terrain cover at all, and funny how "Small" Arena is already too big.

 

[SuperDoom1]

...this has lasted 8 years in the wrong subforum. This belongs in the NintenZone.

 

[Master Knight DH]

So here is something Premiering today, based off of Heeew's Smash Is Broken series:

Kid Icarus Uprising 3DS Is Broken

Video sources other than my own:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBK5oCPcmXg (Daybreak footage)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P92r5xdXE2s (Grind Rails intang...

www.youtube.com

 

[Perkilator]

I think Sakurai absolutely teased Kid Icarus Uprising potentially getting a Switch port.... I will believe that till I know for sure it's NOT happening lol

Bandai Namco was rumored to be working on a classic remaster for Nintendo Switch, it could be Kid Icarus Uprising. pic.twitter.com/0HcQluu69C

— OJ - PlayerEssence (@PlayerEssence) November 23, 2022

Don’t do that…don’t give me hope.