Ken Masters or Akuma?

[Boartobewild]

After the spectacular recent Direct, my hunger/desire for suitable Echo fighter has reached an all time high. Seeing as Street fighter is pretty much the OG and King of clone fighters, implementing another user of the Ansatsuken, is a No brainer at this point.

But who do you prefer? Cast your Vote and post your Opinion/Reasoning down below!

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Ken as an Echo for sure. Akuma though... was his moveset different from Ryu and Ken? My Streetfighter knowledge is pretty rusty after all those years...

Anyways, why not both? That was my answer to the poll because if Marth can have two echo figthers so can Ryu!

 

[Boartobewild]

Fr

Ken as an Echo for sure. Akuma though... was his moveset different from Ryu and Ken? My Streetfighter knowledge is pretty rusty after all those years...

Anyways, why not both? That was my answer to the poll because if Marth can have two echo figthers so can Ryu!

From what I remember, (haven't played a single street fighter game yet, but heard quite a lot from other sorces, seeing as it is pretty much the grand gran-daddy of Fighting games, so you're bound to know SOMETHING) Akuma practises a more viscous variation of this style. ( Satsui no hado or something?) He does have have a quite a few different variations of moves ( he should use the Shun Goku Satsu for his Final Smash though) similair to Falco's own style from Fox, but not enough to be considered/warranting a semi- clone Status like Wolf and Ganon.

Speaking of which, Ganon and Akuma look like the would be best buds/bros, getting along pretty fine, there's a good reason, why PM made an Akuma skin for Ganon

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Fr


From what I remember, (haven't played a single street fighter game yet, but heard quite a lot from other sorces, seeing as it is pretty much the grand gran-daddy of Fighting games, so you're bound to know SOMETHING) Akuma practises a more viscous variation of this style. ( Satsui no hado or something?) He does have have a quite a few different variations of moves ( he should use the Shun Goku Satsu for his Final Smash though) similair to Falco's own style from Fox, but not enough to be considered/warranting a semi- clone Status like Wolf and Ganon.

Speaking of which, Ganon and Akuma look like the would be best buds/bros, getting along pretty fine, there's a good reason, why PM made an Akuma skin for Ganon

Lol! Akuma is probably one of the 2 Gerudo males in Hyrule history

I played a lot of Street Figther II back in the snes days, Ryu and Ken were practically the same so perfect for an echo. Akuma appeared in a later version of Street Fighter II, Omega Giga Turbo Blast i think (just kidding, it was just Turbo)

I'm pretty confident we'll see Ken before release. Dropping echo figthers here and there doesn't seems too much of a problem for nintendo (i mean no balancing issues, create a moveset and such). It's almost like an enhanced new skin for an existing character.

From what we've seen so far, they like dropping a few characters at a time and these days they tend on giving us vilains so it's possible we see Akuma or another Street Figther baddy.

M. Bison would be great too, he was kind of the main vilain (as far as story goes in snes fighting games anyway).

 

[Boartobewild]

Lol! Akuma is probably one of the 2 Gerudo males in Hyrule history

I played a lot of Street Figther II back in the snes days, Ryu and Ken were practically the same so perfect for an echo. Akuma appeared in a later version of Street Fighter II, Omega Giga Turbo Blast i think (just kidding, it was just Turbo)

I'm pretty confident we'll see Ken before release. Dropping echo figthers here and there doesn't seems too much of a problem for nintendo (i mean no balancing issues, create a moveset and such). It's almost like an enhanced new skin for an existing character.

From what we've seen so far, they like dropping a few characters at a time and these days they tend on giving us vilains so it's possible we see Akuma or another Street Figther baddy.

M. Bison would be great too, he was kind of the main vilain (as far as story goes in snes fighting games anyway).

Ehhhhhh, I find Bison's design and moveset a bit bland and clichè, to be frank. If there was gonna be any other rep with a distinguished moveset, I'd either go with Chun-Li (we also have a distinct lack of females, though not as bad as the contrast between villains and heros) or Guile. If I had to choose just one, I'd have to pick the later for a couple of reasons;

1) "Guile's theme goes with everything" (though they might still include it anyway, but not him)

2) I really dig his Moveset and overall style and flair the most. Also we need at least one positive and cool use/example for the term
SOOOOONNNICCCC BOOOOOOOOOOOOMM in a game to wash out the bad taste, by-you-know-what ;/

3) This would be the closest and most satisfying way of playing Major Stroheim in a worthwhile beloved Title, as ironic as it is
( The character from Jojo's bizarre adventure, who Guile happens to be inspired by, at least appearance wise).

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Ehhhhhh, I find Bison's design and moveset a bit bland and clichè, to be frank. If there was gonna be any other rep with a distinguished moveset, I'd either go with Chun-Li (we also have a distinct lack of females, though not as bad as the contrast between villains and heros) or Guile. If I had to choose just one, I'd have to pick the later for a couple of reasons;

1) "Guile's theme goes with everything" (though they might still include it anyway, but not him)

2) I really dig his Moveset and overall style and flair the most. Also we need at least one positive and cool use/example for the term
SOOOOONNNICCCC BOOOOOOOOOOOOMM in a game to wash out the bad taste, by-you-know-what ;/

3) This would be the closest and most satisfying way of playing Major Stroheim in a worthwhile beloved Title, as ironic as it is
( The character from Jojo's bizarre adventure, who Guile happens to be inspired by, at least appearance wise).

Good points. Fair enough for Bison, i just thought storywise (again as far as story goes in snes fighting games) it would be the most likely.

But there's so many good choices, i wouldn't want to be the one taking the final decision (too much pressure).

Anyway, i think you are on a good track here with Ken and Akumadorf.

 

[Tornado_Man]

I want Akuma the most, he was my main in USF4 and his merciless style would be more interesting as an echo than Ken. However, since day 1, Ken has been the echo fighter. so I know what choice is to be made.

Echo aside though, Blanka would be pretty cool to see.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I want Akuma the most, he was my main in USF4 and his merciless style would be more interesting as an echo than Ken. However, since day 1, Ken has been the echo fighter. so I know what choice is to be made.

Echo aside though, Blanka would be pretty cool to see.

Blanka! Would be awesome.

There's a brand new support thread for Akuma if you're interested: https://smashboards.com/threads/the-master-of-the-fists-akuma-support-thread.457197/

 

[Oddball]

I don't really think Ryu needs an Echo, but if we're going to give him one ... Dan Hibiki.

 

[Iridium]

Honestly, we could have both. Not sure I have seen a character get two echo fighters, so maybe Ken can be an echo and Akuma can be more unique, but only if it is possible, which it could be.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Honestly, we could have both. Not sure I have seen a character get two echo fighters, so maybe Ken can be an echo and Akuma can be more unique, but only if it is possible, which it could be.

I thought Chrom was an echo of Marth after seeing the direct (making him the 2nd with Lucina). Then i thought he was Ike's echo. Then i was confused

Akuma could be an echo'ish' like Chrom but realistically i think only Ken will make it into Ulitmate (as a pure echo as he always was).

 

[Iridium]

I thought Chrom was an echo of Marth after seeing the direct (making him the 2nd with Lucina). Then i thought he was Ike's echo. Then i was confused

Akuma could be an echo'ish' like Chrom but realistically i think only Ken will make it into Ulitmate (as a pure echo as he always was).

I'm honestly wondering what they would do with Akuma's model. He most likely would be noticeably taller than Ryu, although that doesn't mean he can't use Ryu's animations. Perhaps Chrom is taller than Roy, so it doesn't matter, but that has been on my mind for a little while now.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I'm honestly wondering what they would do with Akuma's model. He most likely would be noticeably taller than Ryu, although that doesn't mean he can't use Ryu's animations. Perhaps Chrom is taller than Roy, so it doesn't matter, but that has been on my mind for a little while now.

I guess now that they have shrinked the hell out of Ridley anything is possible

 

[Boartobewild]

I'm honestly wondering what they would do with Akuma's model. He most likely would be noticeably taller than Ryu, although that doesn't mean he can't use Ryu's animations. Perhaps Chrom is taller than Roy, so it doesn't matter, but that has been on my mind for a little while now.

Pretty simple, just do the reverse of PM and give Akuma's Ganon's model, but move swap hack Ryu's moveset onto him.

I wonder if anyone could try this for fun in Sm4sh, just to see how it would look like.
If it doesn't already exist.......

 

[Guynamednelson]

Akuma as an echo would be too inaccurate. He's supposed to be balanced around low health and being more flexible than Ryu.

 

[Boartobewild]

Akuma as an echo would be too inaccurate. He's supposed to be balanced around low health and being more flexible than Ryu.

Do Echo fighters specifically have to/by definition share the same weight, mobility, speed power and other attributes as such?

I mean I could include; "Making Akuma a Semi clone", if people want me to. Akuma would just have lower weight, and more fall speed to simulate what you suggested.

 

[meleebrawler]

Do Echo fighters specifically have to/by definition share the same weight, mobility, speed power and other attributes as such?

I mean I could include; "Making Akuma a Semi clone", if people want me to. Akuma would just have lower weight, and more fall speed to simulate what you suggested.

Well Dark Samus has the same fall speed and roll (even if they look different) as regular Samus, so the answer, for now anyway, is yes. Not power though, attack properties are where the main differences lie, whether they look different or not.

 

[nuclearneo577]

I'm gonna vouch for both, Ken is my favorite Street Fighter character (cliche I know, but I'm a much bigger fan of SNK and Ken is simple to use and is better then Ryu from style points alone) and the original fighting game clone, and Akuma has the villain rivalry thing going for him and could easily be a low weight character with a lot of good attacks like Mewtwo. And come on, who doesn't want to see the Raging Demon as a final smash?

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

For the raging demon alone, I prefer Akuma. Also, Ashura Senku as a roll.
Akuma as an echo isn't really incoherent, as he borrowed many moves from Ryu in Street Fighter 2.

Of course if you ask me, the second SF rep should be Chun-Li, but as an echo... I have a preference for Akuma.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm gonna vouch for both, Ken is my favorite Street Fighter character (cliche I know, but I'm a much bigger fan of SNK and Ken is simple to use and is better then Ryu from style points alone) and the original fighting game clone, and Akuma has the villain rivalry thing going for him and could easily be a low weight character with a lot of good attacks like Mewtwo. And come on, who doesn't want to see the Raging Demon as a final smash?

How do you incorporate the Demon Flip, though? And he'd obviously need low weight, as you said, and faster movement, attribute changes which would disqualify him from echo status based on what I've seen.

You know what I think Akuma is more likely to be? A boss. Since they seem to have special requirements for meeting them, what better way to honor Akuma's legacy as the very first fighting game bonus boss than to have him reprise the role in Smash?

 

[Azaël]

Ken could be so cool

 

[GolisoPower]

How do you incorporate the Demon Flip, though? And he'd obviously need low weight, as you said, and faster movement, attribute changes which would disqualify him from echo status based on what I've seen.

Maybe make it an exclusive short-hop? Like if you use Dragon-Punch-Jump, you’ll use a True Demon Flip?

 

[Boartobewild]

Maybe make it an exclusive short-hop? Like if you use Dragon-Punch-Jump, you’ll use a True Demon Flip?

Most of these really sound like things that could be incorporated as aesthetic changes though, also considering Chrome seems to take a little bit of everything from any Fire emblem char besides Corrin and is still considered an echofighter, this argument of Akuma being too different, while still using his own version of the Ansatsuken style which both Ryu and Ken use, doesn't hold much water any longer, now does it? meleebrawler Especially when taking into account, that Dark samus also seems to have a floatier movement style (perhabs even weight) and is automaticly more viable than Samus, simply due to not sharing her for/backward dodgeroll.

 

[Johnknight1]

I would prefer both, but Ken works more as an Echo Fighter whereas Akuma would stick out more as a clone (ala Young Link vs. current adult Link).

It would be so cool to have in Smash though. Ken is in basically every Street Fighter game and Akuma is in basically every Marvel game, so having them both in Smash as clones/Echo Fighters would be amazing... especially since I'm a Ken main in about half of the Street Fighter titles.

 

[meleebrawler]

Most of these really sound like things that could be incorporated as aesthetic changes though, also considering Chrome seems to take a little bit of everything from any Fire emblem char besides Corrin and is still considered an echofighter, this argument of Akuma being too different, while still using his own version of the Ansatsuken style which both Ryu and Ken use, doesn't hold much water any longer, now does it? meleebrawler Especially when taking into account, that Dark samus also seems to have a floatier movement style (perhabs even weight) and is automaticly more viable than Samus, simply due to not sharing her for/backward dodgeroll.

ESAM wasn't the only one, and I was talking about Dark Samus' dash attack being more like Samus' dash attack from SSB4 before ESAM made that video. Check some of my posts around the room.



I ended up with 42 frames for Dark Samus' roll. Samus' roll in SSBU from the Samus versus Ridley battle from the 2018 invitational is 38 frames. It appears to have a 10.53% increase in frames on the second roll, however, making Samus' second roll 42 frames. Now, consider in the video that Dark Samus air-dodged first before rolling. It would appear then that the dodging mechanic includes dodge, air-dodge, and rolling as all one and the same, as ZeRo has suspected. This means Dark Samus' roll may just be the same as Samus' roll in terms of frames. It just looks different.

They also fall at the same speed if you look closely at the Lylat scene. Most likely Sakurai only used the term "floatier" to describe how she literally floats in her animations, not describing her fall speed or weight. Sakurai seldom uses terminology in the same way smashers do.

 

[Kero the Invincible]

I don't really think Ryu needs an Echo, but if we're going to give him one ... Dan Hibiki.

Dammit, man. I can't like a comment 5 times!

 

[Pizza Robo]

I vote for Akuma for Ryu Echo and have his Final Smash be Raging Demon

 

[John Dylan Smith]

I Mainly vote Akuma for a Ryu echo fighter (We mainly need more villain's in Super Smash Bros Ultimate and Akuma would stand out more than Ken if you ask me)!

 

[Spinosaurus]

Ken makes way more sense. He's pretty different now himself, but he started as near identical and subsequently became more and more different with each iteration/game. Even then, he's still the shoto closest to Ryu.

Akuma's always been a jacked up shoto, for the cost of low health. He's also significantly faster, with his own extra moves like his air diagonal fire balls, demon flip and teleport among others. Him being almost the same as Ryu wouldn't be "Akuma", but you have more leeway with Ken there. I just hope they actually apply some of Ken's signature differences like Tatsu being multihit.

I personally prefer Akuma as a character, but I think I'd rather a Ken echo.

 

[Dreamking]

Ken makes more sense, but I prefer to see Akuma.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Funny enough, though, if Ken were in as Ryu's echo, this game would actually be the first time he gets Shakunetsu. (I guess he has something similar in SFV, though. No idea if it's actually called Shakunetsu.)

Also, you can easily replace Collarbone Breaker with Inazuma Kick, which is also a two hit standing overhead, so they can functionally be identical in Smash but with a different animation. No idea what you could replace Ryu's j.MP for his uair or donkey kick for fsmash with though.

 

[Questionmark222]

Definitely Ken, he was the original echo fighter. But I wouldn't be opposed to see Akuma as a secret boss in "Spirits" mode!

 

[Mgl]

Dan should be the echo fighter

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Ken easily

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

The main reason I prefer Ken as an echo instead of Akuma is because we already have Dark Pit and Dark Samus. Even though Akuma is more developed than either of those two, we don’t need echoes to become a catch all for dark characters.

 

[Phillyfanboy]

I'd take Sakura.

 

[TheJutin]

Akuma is cooler, but Ken is the original echo fighter. Putting someone else over Ryu wouldn’t seem right

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

If they add Ken or akuma, I really hope they change the mechaniccs of some of their moves. Like the hurricane kick should catch people for multiple hits, and with a quick tap maybe have them stay spinning on the spot rather than moving forward. Hadouken in air could also be angled downwards instead of going straight, etc. That would be so awesome and a welcomed clone moveset.

 

[GenghisConn3]

I'd be happy either way, SF is one of my favourite game series and I'd be happy to see it get more representation in Smash. I think overall I'd prefer Akuma over Ken as I can see more tools that Akuma would have to make him stand out more such as his downward aiming air projectiles aswell as the Demon Flip as a possible new Down B (and of course his FS would be the Raging Demon). Though that being said I can also see Ken having some interesting variations on moves such as the input Shoryuken having a fiery motif as well as having it hit multiple times and having the Tatsumaki hit multiple times aswell. I can even see Ken having two final smashes, Shinryuken if he's not next to an opponent and the Shippu Jinraikyaku if he is.

 

[axon225]

honestly, i think ken is going to get in.

just a hunch...