Ken Combo?

[Life]

Simple question, does the Ken Combo (fair->doublejump dair spike for any newbies around here) still exist in this game?

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

If so, no one has reported it existing in the game. If he could still do it, it would probably be a pretty huge deal.

I'm positive it's not in the game. Forward Air doesn't keep your opponent close, it knocks them away. In melee one could use forward air to sort of stun the opponent in front of them while carrying them with some light forward/upward momentum. That + the hitstun is what allowed for D-air to spike.

That doesn't really exist in this game.

 

[Fex13]

i really hate to say it...but i from what ive seen in the streams marth haslost almost all his combo potential....every attack, even at very low percent, sends the opponent just a bit too far away to follow up...this fact will make marth a very campy spacing character....RIP marth combo monster, ill miss you

 

[Xinc]

Perhaps the sourspot of the fair can lead to the dair. I heard Marth's down air swings from the opposite side, meaning you'll need to jump past the opponent (double jump). Just a theory

 

[Gawain]

While I think that Marth is probably meant to be more of a spacing keepaway type character now, I think people just need to experiment with him more now instead of trying to do the same old stuff.

 

[Clint Jaguar]

I really do hope the combo is in the game, even though I've rarely been able to pull it off in previous games.

 

[Life]

I mostly asked because someone else asked about it. Thanks all.

 

[Shaya]

Down air has less landing lag on a fast fall than before. Easy to cross up mix up. On hit gives you every move.

Frame1 of fairs are still putting people into a position for follow ups.

Fair to Dair is sure to work. Ken Comboing like melee wasn't even a thing in Melee in the later years either due to people knowing how to double stick DI; it's a very very rare thing to pull off.

 

[Tsukihi Araragi]

No, It's not possible. IRC Ken himself said it can't be done.

 

[Random4811]

A traditional Ken combo is not possible, no. Atleast, not in the 3DS version. We may see with the use of GC controllers (or the New 3DS csticks) the ability to pull off a more reliable half assed version. As it stands though, its too easy to fast fall out of your sweetspot range on the dair, sweetspot fairs send your foe flying too far, sourspot fairs dont move them enough (often times not off the stage until higher percentages) and its a mess trying to set up any of the combos I just learned to do a few months ago [trying to become more competitively geared with this iteration of Smash, since I really missed my opportunities for the other games] and essentially, a traditional short and sweet Ken combo is not a thing.

But, you can still SORT of perform one. For me, I've been able to pull off every 2 out of 10 of these mock Ken combos. You can get your opponent roughly where you need them to be. Its closer to Brawl's Ken combo, but even then its not near as performable. A side throw or mid fair can sort of lead them to where you need them. Then you need to time your dair PERFECTLY. Too soon, and you send your opponent up twoard the stage, and you may accidentally fast fall- likely leading to your death. Too late, and your foe is going to recover if nothing else, but also likely footstool you, and probably try to perform their own down spike. Nothing is more humiliating then trying to pull this off against CF, only to be footstooled and then spiked to my death. My word of advice to you is to try in training mode for a while to see if you can generally set something up that works for you. Because I've been working on it, and I can sort of do it a third of the time now.

 

[EternalFlame]

Following up on what Random said, there is a way to setup to a spike using DB in the air, by hitting them as much above you as possible. By doing this, they are at an ideal position to double jump and spike at high percents. Granted, your opponent can easily retaliate by attacking back as you do the double jump (which is why it becomes a setup more than anything else). But at that point you have a variety of mixups you can use instead of the spike.

. . .
But, you can still SORT of perform one. For me, I've been able to pull off every 2 out of 10 of these mock Ken combos. You can get your opponent roughly where you need them to be. Its closer to Brawl's Ken combo, but even then its not near as performable. A side throw or mid fair can sort of lead them to where you need them. Then you need to time your dair PERFECTLY. Too soon, and you send your opponent up twoard the stage, and you may accidentally fast fall- likely leading to your death. Too late, and your foe is going to recover if nothing else, but also likely footstool you, and probably try to perform their own down spike.
. . .

I'll have to keep this one in mind when I practice again later today. Good find dude xD At least it may be possible to setup with this, like with the DB.

 

[Random4811]

Following up on what Random said, there is a way to setup to a spike using DB in the air, by hitting them as much above you as possible. By doing this, they are at an ideal position to double jump and spike at high percents. Granted, your opponent can easily retaliate by attacking back as you do the double jump (which is why it becomes a setup more than anything else). But at that point you have a variety of mixups you can use instead of the spike.


I'll have to keep this one in mind when I practice again later today. Good find dude xD At least it may be possible to setup with this, like with the DB.

The easier way to perform this false ken combo is actually to fthrow them off at around 40-50% (also works on higher percents), jump back on the stage, and then come back down and dair them, or to do it all in one jump, which is also plausible this game, and dair them as they try to recover.

 

[EternalFlame]

The easier way to perform this false ken combo is actually to fthrow them off at around 40-50% (also works on higher percents), jump back on the stage, and then come back down and dair them, or to do it all in one jump, which is also plausible this game, and dair them as they try to recover.

Gotcha. I'll give it a few test runs and see if I can pull it off too. Any help on my Marth is always appreciated xD

 

[Drodeka]

No, there is no way to pull the Ken combo off and have it actually BE a combo. However, if your opponent lacks defensive awareness and/or fast aerials, you can definitely make it look like a Ken combo by just fairing then dairing. Had it work in Glory mode about 2 times in my last session, however that is paired with about 20+ failed attempts lol
EDIT: Make sure you don't tip the F-air

 

[Alaya]

There's a thread on the Lucina forums about this, it's definitely possible on her with many characters being unable to do anything about it, not sure how Marth's tipper mechanics will effect this.

 

[Folt]

I think Lucina's Ken Combo was found to be more of a Ken Combo String (i.e. opponents can escape it) with further testing. The author of that thread was just more comfortable calling it a Ken Combo.

 

[CitizenSNIPS]

0:45 I do a fair to dair. It's escapable and not a double fair therefore the video is called Ghetto Ken Combo

 

[Kinslayer]

0:45 I do a fair to dair. It's escapable and not a double fair therefore the video is called Ghetto Ken Combo

Looked like he could have evaded it, because you see el wind come out right before you spiked him. I was making sure I wasn't crazy, but it is certainly there.it seems if he would have dodged he could have gotten out.

 

[Random4811]

Looked like he could have evaded it, because you see el wind come out right before you spiked him. I was making sure I wasn't crazy, but it is certainly there.it seems if he would have dodged he could have gotten out.

Oh, absolutely. Its an attack string, not an actual combo.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Down air has less landing lag on a fast fall than before. Easy to cross up mix up. On hit gives you every move.

Frame1 of fairs are still putting people into a position for follow ups.

Fair to Dair is sure to work. Ken Comboing like melee wasn't even a thing in Melee in the later years either due to people knowing how to double stick DI; it's a very very rare thing to pull off.

Bruh, Ken Combos happen all the time in Melee. I can get video footage from Big House, Justice and probably EVO.

 

[Shaya]

Well Marth has had a bit of a renaissance in Melee with recent tournaments (like big house/justice). I still maintain it's not something you "go for", it's a tad iffie to refer to any combo ending with down air as a Ken combo (I'm sure the set up into that position involved more than just forward airs).

 

[Xinc]

The Ken combo is a real interesting one in that it is escapable but it's a pretty good combo if you manage to pull it off. I managed to do it twice thus far, causing one guy to ragequit.

It's important to not use the tipper, so you don't send the opponent too far away, but enough so you could fast fall drop to double jump dair.

 

[Forever 9]

From what I've seen, and from what I've tried, nope. Marth's not the same anymore...

 

[Shaya]

(the power of holding IN is strong this game)

 

[JaegerEC]

(the power of holding IN is strong this game)

Howwwwwww

 

[Satan-]

I did the Ken combo to a ROB though it was obvious it wasn't a “real" combo. Can't get video footage tho since I have no capture card, unless you guys wouldn't mind videos recorded by my phone...

 

[Shaya]

Yeah, I've gotten "ken combo" off on multiple occasions, one of which happened recently pissed me off, ken combo'd someone, then the game stalled/smash logo loading forever, then it gave me a "game has been cancelled and is no contest", denying me the ability to save the replay

Holding into the stage is kinda... an old saying from Melee, but it's always applied against Marth even in Brawl. If you DI into Marth while getting hit, expect to continue getting hit.
I kinda doubt that it was a true combo in this scenario, but it's all about getting the position to do it (seeing as the dair requires you to kick them with your legs [protip: Marth kicks people when he spikes instead of hitting them with a sword]). It may have been close to real, who knows; the point I've made before was that Marth/Lucina don't combo in this game, it's always strings, but strings which you should almost always continue getting follow up hits with.

 

[Random4811]

Yeah, I've gotten "ken combo" off on multiple occasions, one of which happened recently pissed me off, ken combo'd someone, then the game stalled/smash logo loading forever, then it gave me a "game has been cancelled and is no contest", denying me the ability to save the replay

Holding into the stage is kinda... an old saying from Melee, but it's always applied against Marth even in Brawl. If you DI into Marth while getting hit, expect to continue getting hit.
I kinda doubt that it was a true combo in this scenario, but it's all about getting the position to do it (seeing as the dair requires you to kick them with your legs [protip: Marth kicks people when he spikes instead of hitting them with a sword]). It may have been close to real, who knows; the point I've made before was that Marth/Lucina don't combo in this game, it's always strings, but strings which you should almost always continue getting follow up hits with.

I dont remember who, but some Marth player's catchphrase is allegedly "don't go into the ****" or something of the sort. Your Ken string video is rather impressive. I'd never considered trying to do it exactly like that. I'll definately be trying that when I can. I've found that you dont need to get the kick to get the spike, because you can spike with the very tip of the sword if you're positioned correctly. Though, more testing might prove that to be entirely wrong, this is what I've experianced thusfar gimping recoveries. (one instance of this was against a rather good CF in Omega Ferox. I got the dair spike on the tip of the sword, as he jumped into it instead of me doing a rising dair. He tried to recover, but I had chased him a little to make sure he died, and fair'ed him into the underside of Ferox, bouncing him off the wall and down to the pit. Unfortunately, my replays were full at the time.)

I did the Ken combo to a ROB though it was obvious it wasn't a “real" combo. Can't get video footage tho since I have no capture card, unless you guys wouldn't mind videos recorded by my phone...

A phone video wouldnt be bad if the gameplay is atleast visible. If the quality is too bad, nothing will really be gained out of it.

 

[Shaya]

protip: If I use the word protip, it's hyperbole.

 

[Xinc]

protip: If I use the word protip, it's hyperbole.

Sounds legit.

Marth's Ken Combo seems to be a real "situational" thing. Ken's probably just shaking his head in despair.

 

[LordShade67]

Sounds legit.

Marth's Ken Combo seems to be a real "situational" thing. Ken's probably just shaking his head in despair.

Last I checked, Ken was too busy bandwagoning Diddy.

 

[Xinc]

Last I checked, Ken was too busy bandwagoning Diddy.

Spoiler

omfg 1000 posts

Smfh. Traitor. xD

 

[Emblem Lord]

The amount of attention this thread is getting is disheartening.

 

[Shaya]

Show everyone your ken string Emblem Lord, then you can have fun here too!

I'm pretty sure the ken combo fascination is much less than it was during the early days of Brawl at least.

 

[EternalFlame]

The amount of attention this thread is getting is disheartening.

Funny enough, I sorta agree xD

But really, the string was a famous thing as we all know. If people want to try find ways to sorta replicate it, then by all means they can. This probably won't stop until everyone has played the WiiU version for at least a couple of months and Marth's meta has been further developped for this iteration.

 

[JaegerEC]

Sooo, I think I found a way to get a somewhat consistent Ken Combo? Air DB1>Doublejump dair. Gotten it to work a whole bunch of times. Can be escaped by air dodge if timed properly. Will take a video of it later.

 

[EternalFlame]

Sooo, I think I found a way to get a somewhat consistent Ken Combo? Air DB1>Doublejump dair. Gotten it to work a whole bunch of times. Can be escaped by air dodge if timed properly. Will take a video of it later.

I actually mentioned that earlier xD It can also be countered simply by throwing an attack that reaches at Marth (like Uair to clash with the Dair, or a Fair that reaches Marth before he can get in position), fast fall, or counter. It's a setup at best, and there are a number of options asides from double jump Dair'ing, like using Fair, Uair, etc, immediately after the DB1 comes in contact with the target.

Air DB is a great setup tool for a lot of things though, and has some nice traps and even a combo at high percents