"Keepin' it in Style!" - Dante for Smash Ultimate

Schnee117

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not gonna lie, all these nice QoL upgrades makes me feel like an idiot for picking up the DMC collection for DMC3 alone years ago, it wasn't even on sale lol. Ah well.
 

Adelto

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These "new" features are really great and all but... Wouldn't it make things a little bit unbalanced between playable Vergil and Dante? Except if the next feature is something for Vergil, there would almost be no point to play him since he would be stuck with his old moves
 
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Ok, two announcements down, and only the February 13th announcement left. No Nintendo Direct happened on January so... hopefully one comes around on February... 13th... or 14th. :shades: To this day I still feel that the way they've been announcing these features for DMC 3 SE for the Switch was a bit... odd. First, when Matt announced the three dates; the first one being January 16th, some thought that one of those dates could maybe tie-in to a Dante reveal for Smash (a joint announcement so to say). A few days after announcing those three dates, we got the heads-up of the 5th DLC character presentation happening on January 16th. By the date alone, OF COURSE Ebony and Ivory were sounding off! Same date, could it be?! IS IT HAPPENING?!?! ... ... Unfortunately, it didn't happened. :crying: However, two more DMC 3 SE announcement dates were left. We got the second announcement today; pretty neat. All that's left is February 13th. If by some coincidence Nintendo pulls up and announces a Direct for either the 13th, or the 14th... sorry but, Ebony and Ivory are going to be sounding off again. That would've been two coincidences in about a month's time. If such thing comes to pass, I DO hope Dante finally joins as Challenger Pack 6. Not only would the timing of the reveal help the DMC trilogy on the Switch, as well as DMC 3 SE, but it could also boost interest on the whole franchise, eventually leading to possible ports of DMC 4 and 5.

Now, something I was thinking about earlier today. One of the new features that imo are coming with DMC 3 SE that's a big deal, is the style switching mode. Thinking about it more, my thoughts linked with Smash Bros. Ultimate, and an idea popped up. What if for developing Dante's character in Smash, they used Shulk and Bayonetta as base characters? Bayonetta due to her gunslinger-like moves and Shulk... for Dante's gimmick. Yes, Dante's gimmick, and that would be none other than style switching. With one of the new features coming in DMC 3 SE, why not implement in Smash as well? Dante could switch between Trickster, Gunslinger, Swordmaster, and Royal Guard using the Neutral Special command. Upon input, a UI similar to Shulk's Monado Arts appears and one could choose between the four styles. However, I've been debating whether this gimmick would extend to changing some of Dante's moves for each style, or him keeping one single moveset across all styles. This is what I could come up with for the time being:

Trickster = Dante has more invincibility frames when dodging, and directional dodging has more range. Dunno if removing roll penalty should be implemented or if it would be kinda broken. For this style Dante's attacks would consist mostly of gun attacks (Ebony and Ivory), and a few sword attacks (Force Edge).
Gunslinger = Dante's moveset changes to only gun moves; besides using Ebony and Ivory, he can use a shotgun, as well as the grenade launcher (dunno if the Nemesis Beta should be added to the mix as well). This style would of course suit zoning.
Swordmaster = Dante's moveset changes to mainly melee attacks using the Force Edge, Alastor, and Ifrit (or Balrog). Some of the moves can be executed with similar inputs to the original games in which they appear (i.e. Side Tilt = Stinger using Alastor; Back B (like Terry) = Fire Uppercut using Ifrit; etc.). This style would suit more a rushdown playstyle (if Dante's movement speed is good).
Royal Guard = Kind of the opposite to Trickster in the sense that Dante's shield is stronger, and can parry easier. Dunno if in this style, he would gain a counter with Down B, or just leave it with easier parrying and stronger shield. I suppose to complement this style, most of his moveset would be sword-heavy, with little use of guns.

Because Dante wields many weapons, and besides the weapons we add onto that the different fighting styles; having each style change up his moveset could be a hassle for development. In light of this, I thought that his moveset could implement the use of his different weapons in a similar way to Byleth. Though the style switching gimmick HAS to be a thing (Neutral B for sure).
 

SNEKeater

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While style switching in Smash would be super dope I don't think if it would be a good idea. I mean, it could be well implemented. But I think that Sakurai would make a different approach for Dante's moveset, just a feeling.

Shulk has different Monado Arts but these don't change his moves. Dante with 4 styles with a lot of different moves for each one would make him a extremely hard character for Smash. Which isn't bad, but when I think about Smash I don't think Dante with 4 styles with a ton of different attacks would be the best fit.
Hey, if it happens I would be super happy and maybe he wouldn't be that complicated as I think. But as I said, I think Sakurai would make a friendly version of Dante if anything. While not easy, he wouldn't be super complex and people could still do cool things with him.

At best I think they would give Dante a Royalguard meter.
And well, Bayonetta doesn't have a lot of things from his games. It's true that while she has different weapons in the games she isn't specially associated with using multiple weapons, that probably is more of a Dante thing.

I believe that Dante would have different weapons and styles implemented in his moves without having to change between weapons or styles. For the dash attack he could use the stinger and for the dair he could have rainfall, for example, and he wouldn't need to change styles for using these two attacks.
He would probably bring some kind of meter of gimmick, that's for sure, I think that would be Devil Trigger or maybe Royal Guard.
Style switching would be more exciting, but having DT as a gimmick is more easy to work with in Smash, at least that's what I think. Also, having different attacks for each one of his styles would mean a ton of work for Sakurai and his team, so idk...
 
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Hmm that's right. Now, the Devil Trigger meter sounds interesting. Could turn out somewhat like Joker's Rebel Guard, and when at max, Dante could activate Devil Trigger however, it wouldn't activate automatically. Devil Trigger (when meter full) would activate upon pressing an input (let's put it at Down B). While in Devil Trigger mode, he could have overall stat buffs, or some moves have different animations (and stronger as well). His sword would change from Force Edge to Sparda. Yeah, I guess Devil Trigger would be a simpler gimmick to give Dante, and similar to Byleth, he can use different weapons with different moves. Yeah... that would be the way. :shades:
 

SNEKeater

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Hmm that's right. Now, the Devil Trigger meter sounds interesting. Could turn out somewhat like Joker's Rebel Guard, and when at max, Dante could activate Devil Trigger however, it wouldn't activate automatically. Devil Trigger (when meter full) would activate upon pressing an input (let's put it at Down B). While in Devil Trigger mode, he could have overall stat buffs, or some moves have different animations (and stronger as well). His sword would change from Force Edge to Sparda. Yeah, I guess Devil Trigger would be a simpler gimmick to give Dante, and similar to Byleth, he can use different weapons with different moves. Yeah... that would be the way. :shades:
To clarify, I think style switching would be pretty neat.
But when it comes to Smash I think (maybe Sakurai will prove me wrong) that they would go for a friendy version of Dante. He for sure would have some type of gimmick/meter I mean, he has DT, Royalguard, other styles, multiple weapons... Each one of these could make for a entire gimmick if done well. For that reason I don't think it would be likely to expect all of that in Dante's moveset.

Also I don't think Dante would have a lot of weapons in his moveset. Besides Rebellion and his guns, I can see Ifrit/Barlog and Cerberus being in 2 moves or 3. Maybe the shotgun as well.

The cool thing about Dante is that you can make different moveset concepts for him. He has a lot to offer and that makes his moveset difficult to predict at all.
 

nessdeltarune00

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To be honest, the timing of Capcom saying “bring DMC to Switch first before he gets into Smash” only to suddenly go completely port happy shortly after is still a HUGE smoking gun for his chances imo.

Not to mention he was being heard among insiders last November when the pass was finalized.
 

Cutie Gwen

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To be honest, the timing of Capcom saying “bring DMC to Switch first before he gets into Smash” only to suddenly go completely port happy shortly after is still a HUGE smoking gun for his chances imo.

Not to mention he was being heard among insiders last November when the pass was finalized.
This is the first I heard of insiders pushing Dante, any examples?
 

Cutie Gwen

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SNEKeater

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https://mobile.twitter.com/NanaKarobi/status/1199448572607025152

I believe this guy is affiliated with Sabi and broke the news of Lloyds deconfirmation minutes before Sabi did.
It's actually an alt account of Sabi if I'm not mistaken lol

Well I guess it's likely that some insiders heard of Dante at some point even if he was leakbait, but the closest thing to that I recall is Fatman talking about him. Not that I consider him a leaker, but he seems relatively convinced in Dante's chances.
 

nessdeltarune00

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It's actually an alt account of Sabi if I'm not mistaken lol

Well I guess it's likely that some insiders heard of Dante at some point even if he was leakbait, but the closest thing to that I recall is Fatman talking about him. Not that I consider him a leaker, but he seems relatively convinced in Dante's chances.
I wouldn’t take his rumors seriously given their track record. But Dante seems very likely even without Fatman right now.
 

Eldrake

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In my opinion, the fact that Capcom is going as far as to add new features for the Devil May Cry 3 port when they didn't with the other ports is definitely eyebrow raising. When the first two was ported to the Switch, there obviously wasn't plans for Dante in Smash at the moment (or at the very least at that point Capcom haven't negotiated with Nintendo about it, yet), but let's be honest, and because I still don't think that it's a coincidence that they began doing so last year, Capcom ported Devil May Cry 1/2 to the Switch not just because some higher-ups love the idea of Dante in Smash, but also for courtesy's sake since Itsuno's comments suggests that higher-ups at Capcom believes that Nintendo has a rule that you must have a game on a Nintendo in order to qualify for Smash, Whether they're right to believe that or not is a whole other story.

But unlike DMC3, they didn't get special features. Why? Well, my conspiracy theory here believes that it's because Capcom didn't want to spend too much funding on the ports in the event that Dante didn't get in Smash. (DMC1 switch port's budget was so light that they repurposed an entire cutscene for a trailer. No, seriously, I'm not kidding.) At the time Capcom knew that Dante wasn't part of the Fighter's Pass. They were probably also uncertain if Nintendo would continue DLC development past the Fighter's Pass. And even then, there's still Sakurai left who gets the final say on whether he gets accepted or rejected. For financial reasons, Capcom were playing it safe with the ports just in case it didn't work out after all.

However, if Capcom successfully negotiated for Dante in Smash in the time between the DMC2 and DMC3 ports AND Sakurai said "Yes!", then it all changes for the DMC3 port. With Dante in Smash, they don't have to give the DMC3 port (and possibly future ports) a shoestring budget, because now there's a reason to give it extra features that DMC3 didn't previously have. They can afford to give DMC3 a higher budget than usual for a port because Super Smash Bros is not just a great and fun game, it is also a marketing monster that can push sales for entirely different games. If Dante still didn't get in Smash, Capcom probably wouldn't feel compelled to do something like this for DMC3.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that Capcom most likely has an extremely good reason behind-the-scenes why they suddenly decided to do cool things with a Devil May Cry game on the Switch when they previously didn't do that for the other ports.
 

SNEKeater

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While the new features for a port of an old game can be saw as something suspicious, I simply think it's more likely to believe that Capcom and Nintendo had some kind of agreement about doing something more than just a port for DMC3. Capcom knows that DMC3 is the most popular entry in the series and that it was the most well known game of the franchise outside of his fanbase, at least until DMC5.
For Nintendo, even if DMC1, 2 and 3 are old games, getting Devil May Cry for the first time on his console is an important deal.

I mean all of this could be, of course, linked in some way to Dante being in Smash, but it's not a requirement.
 
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Basically what I'm trying to say is that Capcom most likely has an extremely good reason behind-the-scenes why they suddenly decided to do cool things with a Devil May Cry game on the Switch when they previously didn't do that for the other ports.
This, and the fact that one of the dates (the very first date) that Matt Walker teased for DMC 3 SE announcements was January 16th, which we would later learn that the "Sakurai Presents ???" video would go live. And also the third date being February 13th (a Thursday). If this week we don't get a Direct... and we DO end up getting it on the week of the 13th... oh boy. I mean, think about it. The DMC dev team announces that there will be new features announced for DMC 3 SE on January 16th, and a few days later the Sakurai Presents ??? stream is announced for that very same day. This coincidence just seems WAY too suspicious and leads me to think; if Dante is in plans for Smash, certainly they would be kept up-to-date with the characters development, as well as Smash related announcements. They could have known that the Sakurai Presents ??? stream would go up on the 16th before hand, and decided to schedule one of the dates to announce one of the port's new features on that same day. True that nothing happened, but it did accomplish one thing; it got a LOT of people talking about Dante in (for) Smash Bros. Ultimate. That certainly served to gauge people's legitimate interest for Dante in Smash.
 

Eldrake

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This, and the fact that one of the dates (the very first date) that Matt Walker teased for DMC 3 SE announcements was January 16th, which we would later learn that the "Sakurai Presents ???" video would go live. And also the third date being February 13th (a Thursday). If this week we don't get a Direct... and we DO end up getting it on the week of the 13th... oh boy. I mean, think about it. The DMC dev team announces that there will be new features announced for DMC 3 SE on January 16th, and a few days later the Sakurai Presents ??? stream is announced for that very same day. This coincidence just seems WAY too suspicious and leads me to think; if Dante is in plans for Smash, certainly they would be kept up-to-date with the characters development, as well as Smash related announcements. They could have known that the Sakurai Presents ??? stream would go up on the 16th before hand, and decided to schedule one of the dates to announce one of the port's new features on that same day. True that nothing happened, but it did accomplish one thing; it got a LOT of people talking about Dante in (for) Smash Bros. Ultimate. That certainly served to gauge people's legitimate interest for Dante in Smash.
Nah, I think Matt Walker teasing an announcement on January 16th was just a coincidence and the DMC 3 dev team genuinely didn't think that there was going to be a Smash Presentation livestream that day. If Dante is in Smash and Matt knew it, he still wouldn't know when Sora Ltd would schedule a presentation video for an unrelated character.
 

Nazyrus

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I think the likeness of a capcom rep in pass 2 is easily 99% now. The spirits and miis spread through pass 1 were clearly a compensation for no capcom rep in that pass. Capcom also is one company with a potential of franchises and characters that are super unique and fun (and fun games overall) that I would be baffled if there is not one in pass 2. Dante is easily one of the most fun if not the most fun and diverse moveset character from capcom i can think of. While i don't think it matters which pack within the pass should be dante, at the same time i think he would be a great opener for the pass, specially after how…divisive…yeah let's put it that way… how divisive fp5 was. Nintendo has proven not to care how they finish stuff, fp5 for me was weak just like incineroar + ken was a weak way to end the base roster, but the way they start things in smash are always great, like inkling and ridley for base were great starter reveals and then joker definitely sold me into pass 1. I expect pass 2 to start with someone who will appeal to many, and Dante could easily be one of the potential candidates to fit that description and everything Sakurai aims for when putting a character in Smash.
 
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To clarify, I think style switching would be pretty neat.
But when it comes to Smash I think (maybe Sakurai will prove me wrong) that they would go for a friendy version of Dante. He for sure would have some type of gimmick/meter I mean, he has DT, Royalguard, other styles, multiple weapons... Each one of these could make for a entire gimmick if done well. For that reason I don't think it would be likely to expect all of that in Dante's moveset.

Also I don't think Dante would have a lot of weapons in his moveset. Besides Rebellion and his guns, I can see Ifrit/Barlog and Cerberus being in 2 moves or 3. Maybe the shotgun as well.

The cool thing about Dante is that you can make different moveset concepts for him. He has a lot to offer and that makes his moveset difficult to predict at all.
i would hope dante completely changes moves for devil trigger.it would be much more intersting.

also i don't think Sakurai is necessarily limited to keep dante easier to play. dante fundamentally isnt easy to play. he was the hardest character in dmc v and even in marvel vs capcom he has had double motions and multiple button presses to work properly. i dont know enough of dante lore to know which weappons but i'd bet quicksilver and weapons like the briefcase arent getting in.
 
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looks like DMC5 just became the best selling game in the franchise at 3.1M (given that we don't count DMC4 and DMC4SE as one title). I always thought the original sold over 5 million given how well received it was at the time and how early it came out on the PS2.
 
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SNEKeater

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looks like DMC5 just became the best selling game in the franchise at 3.1M (given that we don't count DMC4 and DMC4SE as one title). I always thought the original sold over 5 million given how well received it was at the time and how early it came out on the PS2.
3.1M it's very good for the genre. I mean, Bayonetta isn't even close if I recall correctly to these numbers.
The exception would be God of War games, that's for sure. Besides Kratos and his games Devil May Cry 5 is probably the hack n slash game with better sales.
 

SNEKeater

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Just saw the new feature. Didn't expect something like that. Very cool!

To clarify, the co-op is only available for bloody palace.
 

Megadoomer

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Just saw the new feature. Didn't expect something like that. Very cool!

To clarify, the co-op is only available for bloody palace.
Thanks for clarifying - I saw the video on Twitter, but with the sound off and subtitles on, so some of the UI elements cut off the subtitles.
 

Nazyrus

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Great now we just need them to finally make vergil playable in 5, I mean it's a game about him more than any other previous game, it's baffling he isn't playable there yet.
 

SNEKeater

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Great now we just need them to finally make vergil playable in 5, I mean it's a game about him more than any other previous game, it's baffling he isn't playable there yet.
They're probably waiting for a Special Edition, like they did with 3 and 4.
I guess they will announce it for the new consoles. I just hope we will get something more besides Vergil if we have to pay again for having him in DMC5.
 

Megadoomer

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That's awesome, finally some CO op. Too bad that it was spoiled by the eshop.
I'm not sure if the eShop spoiled it, exactly. There was co-op in the original release of DMC3, though it was more of an Easter Egg with the Doppelganger style.
 

Adelto

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I'm not sure if the eShop spoiled it, exactly. There was co-op in the original release of DMC3, though it was more of an Easter Egg with the Doppelganger style.

Well, since it WAS and probably still IS a hidden feature, there would be no point to add the 2 player mention on the eShop. Since I first saw it I directly thought there was gonna be a 2 player "mode". Still very happy it happened, but it kinda spoiled it for me.

What I found really sad is that Vergil is still stuck with is old features while Dante get all of his new one. They seem pretty unbalanced to me
 
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How does this thread have 1% as many posts as the Geno thread lol

With recent blows to Doom Slayer, Dante is probably my most wanted character that's still possible ATM.

I imagine he'd probably play like Bayonetta with worse approach options, recovery,and lack of witchtime, but with disjointed sword attacks a more diverse combo tree in exchange.

For specials I'd probably go:

Neutral - Ebony and Ivory (Basically Joker's gun)
Side - Stinger (Maybe a different move if used in the air, idk)
Up - Trickster (Basically just a straight dash in any direction -- wouldn't go very far and wouldn't give invincibility unless Trickster style was active, making it exploitable)
Down - Style Switch

Styles would work like Monado -- a timed buff to an aspect of Dante's kit, but the buff would be more specific than Shulk's monado buff.

Trickster -- Would increase the distance of up-b and maybe add i-frames, increase roll and airdodge distance, and reduce the landing lack of directional airdodge.

Royal guard -- Would increase the parry window and maybe apply armor to some attacks

Gunslinger -- Would buff Ebony and Ivory much in the same way Arsene buffs Joker's gun, adding a more hitstun and possibly low knockback

Swordmaster -- Would make certain attacks (that would otherwise be single-input attacks) into multihit attacks like Bayonetta's Fair, Ftilt, etc. as combo extenders. Would be the most important style for racking up damage and style points.

Like Monado - Style swich would be quick to activate, so wise Dante players would wait until exactly the right time to activate a certain style (Activate trickster when offstage, activate swordmaster when the opponent is already in disadvantage, etc.)

Dante's unique mechanic would be a meter that would fill slowly as he dealt damage (like Joker and Cloud), but unlike Joker and Cloud, he could make the meter fill more quickly by getting style points, by executing combos, getting parries, etc.. Style point gain would be represented by a Stylish Rank in Dante's UI.

When the meter fills, Dante could use Down B to activate Devil Trigger, which would increase his speed and damage, as well as healing him moderately. Dante would rely on his buffed attacks in this state to net kills before very late percents.

Overall Dante would be nearly useless in unskilled hands, as it would be difficult to kill, and easy to be killed, without proper management of Styles and Devil Trigger. Skilled Dante players would maximize their style points with intricate combos and strings to keep stocks alive and net early kills with Devil Trigger. Skilled players would counter Dante by baiting out specific styles, and exploiting Dante's weaknesses when they are on cooldown, or by forcing Dante to switch styles quickly so more styles are on cooldown at once. Mobile characters like Pikachu would counterplay Dante by disallowing him to build style points by keeping out of disadvantage, while heavier characters would have to hope to net an early kill before Dante gets Devil Trigger.

I think this design for Dante would maximize faithfulness to his home series, while also avoiding making him a broken-ToD-machine like Smash 4 Bayonetta was.
 
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