Kalos Pokemon League: Stage Research

[ParanoidDrone]

Today I'm looking at Kalos Pokemon League, one of my personal favorite stages. (It's so pretty! And Cynthia's theme!)

Shoutouts to @ ぱみゅ who requested I do this stage next.

Previously Covered
Mario Galaxy
Coliseum
Gamer
Wii Fit Studio
Kongo Jungle 64
Windy Hill Zone
Luigi's Mansion
Norfair
Orbital Gate Assault
Woolly World
Skyloft
Garden of Hope
Mushroom Kingdom U
Wuhu Island
Mario Circuit

Layout
Kalos Pokemon League has a simple layout. A main platform with walled sides is flanked by a pair of platforms that hang halfway over the ledge. It periodically transforms into one of four different forms, similar to Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2, before transforming back to its neutral state and repeating the cycle.

Players 1 and 2 start on either side underneath the inner edge of the platforms. Players 3 and 4 start closer to the middle. The Omega form has walled sides.

This stage has numerous hazards of varying intensity. Every transformation except for the neutral has some sort of gimmick, a hazard that activates partway through, and a legendary Pokemon that can drop in to replace the normal hazard with its own.

Transformations
Kalos Pokemon League transforms rather frequently, but the process is consistent regardless of the details. All platforms rise off the top of the screen prior to the stage transforming, which can kill players standing on them at the time. Depending on the current transformation, these platforms are sometimes solid from above, requiring players to run off the side instead of dropping through. As the stage transforms, it flashes white and the background shifts to a solid color indicating the upcoming form. These colors are noted below. The set of platforms for the new transformation then descend from above.

The stage spends 30 seconds in each transformation, with 10 seconds in its neutral form between each. There are a total of 4 transformations, and the stage will give each one a turn before proceeding with the next set of 4. Thus one can predict every fourth transformation with 100% accuracy.

Name|Picture|Notes
Neutral|

|Default form, stage transitions to this for 10 seconds before moving to the next chamber. Other transformations last 30 seconds each.
Ironworks Chamber|

|Indicated by a green background as the stage transitions. Swords do 10% damage if they land on a player. After landing the blades do 4% damage on contact, knockback is minimal even at 999% and cannot kill. Blades are completely solid and act as walls if one manages to avoid the damage. Cross guard forms a platform that's solid from above. Grip forms a wall with a small standing surface on top. Players can attack the hilt, including the decorative eye, to drive the sword down into the ground. Swords require approximately 10% damage to be driven down one notch. Swords can also sink further into the ground than normal when first landing. Because hilts have their own hurtboxes, projectiles such as Pikachu's Thunder Jolt will do damage and vanish instead of moving along the surface. Swords rise out of the ground when the stage transitions back to neutral, at which point the blades do 10% damage again. Unlucky players can ricochet between the blades as they rise for additional damage.
Blazing Chamber|

|Indicated by a red background as the stage transitions. Platforms initially come to rest on the ground before flame geysers erupt and hold them aloft. Platforms are solid from above, although attempting to jump through them from below tends to result in getting hit by the flames. Flames do 4% damage, knockback is minimal even at 999% and cannot kill. Flames are not solid and will not stop most projectiles, although some may still encounter interference. Examples include King Dedede's Gordo Throw, Rosalina's Luma Shot, Olimar's Pikmin (except Red Pikmin, which are immune to fire), and R.O.B.'s Gyro. Flame geysers die down and platforms come to rest on the ground again before the stage transitions back to neutral.
Flood Chamber|

|Indicated by a blue background as the stage transitions. Slides connect to the stage from either side after transitioning, turning it into a walkoff. The slides can be jumped through from below. Slides disengage from the stage and retreat offscreen before the stage transforms back. Slides can be oriented in either direction.
Dragonmark Chamber|

|Indicated by a purple background as the stage transitions.

Elemental Hazards
In addition to the bare layouts described above, each transformation has a unique hazard that triggers partway through. These hazards activate only once per transformation, except the Ironworks Chamber.

Name|Picture|Notes
Metal Pool|

|A small pool of metal forms in the center of the stage and lingers for 5 seconds. Players who touch the pool become metal for approximately 15 seconds. The pool of metal appears twice over the course of the transformation.
Flame Pillars|

|Twin pillars of flame erupt offstage. They do not linger, lasting for all of a second at most. They deal 15% damage on contact and knock players sideways in the direction they came from. If it hits Mario back offstage, it can kill starting at around 65%. Players hit into the side of the stage can ricochet back into the pillar for another hit.
Water Surge|

|The camera zooms out and a surge of water flows down the upper slide, across the stage, and down the lower slide. Players on the ground get pushed along for the ride and can die if they don't jump before getting pushed to the blast line.
Energy Blast|

|The dragon statue in the background rears back and releases an energy blast. It can aim at center stage (pictured) or underneath either platform. When aiming to either side, it first rears its head back in the opposite direction. The energy swirls around the point of impact briefly before erupting. Despite the visual effect, the vertical range is poor and will not hit players standing on the platforms. The energy blast does 15% and kills Mario off the top at 140%. The statue fires a total of 3 energy blasts.

Legendary Pokemon
Normally when transitioning to a chamber, a collection of Pokemon are released from their Pokeballs in the background, where they observe the battle. Rarely, a Legendary Pokemon will take their place and introduce its own hazard. The presence of a Legendary Pokemon means that the hazards listed above in the "Elemental Hazards" section will not manifest.

Name|Picture|Notes
Registeel|

|Registeel uses Stomp, which buries players on the ground and causes the swords to spin once in midair before landing again. Players grabbing the ledge are not immune, although they will also not get buried. If the swords were driven into the ground, this will reset their height. The stomp and spinning swords both do 15% damage, although the swords are capable of doing 30% damage in a single hit if a player is right next them at the moment Registeel stomps the ground. The stomp cannot kill players since it buries them in the ground. The swords kill at various percents depending on the point of impact. Registeel takes about 12-14 seconds to stomp, counting from the moment it appears in the background, and also makes a weird metallic noise a second or so before stomping.
Ho-oh|

|Ho-oh uses Sacred Fire, which causes all flame pillars on the stage to erupt with greater intensity. The onstage pillars quadruple in height while the offstage pillars do 18% damage instead of 15%. The effects last until the stage transitions back to neutral.
Manaphy|

|Manaphy uses Whirlpool and turns the center of the main stage into a whirlpool. The sloped sides and rushing water pull players toward the middle, where there is a hole with grabbable ledges and walled sides. The outer ring of the main platform is safe, as are the slides and overhead platforms. The whirlpool lasts until the stage transitions back to neutral.
Rayquaza|

|The screen rumbles and a harmless stream of electricity streaks by to indicate the danger zone. A few seconds later, Rayquaza flies across the screen along the path indicated by the electricity. It does not fly across the stage at ground level, but can take a vertical path offstage or a horizontal path overhead that can sometimes hit players standing on the platforms. Its head does 22% damage while the body does 12% damage. The head also deals more knockback. Kill percents vary wildly depending on the point of impact and whether the player hit Rayquaza's head or body. Rayquaza appears a total of 3 times over the course of the transformation.

Summary

• Stage transitions to one of 4 forms, takes a turn with each before repeating.
• Stage spends 10 seconds in neutral and 30 seconds in each transformation.
• Stage transitions back to neutral between transformations.
• Ironworks Chamber features swords, metal pool, and Registeel.
• Swords do 10% damage in motion, 4% on contact and can't kill when stationary.
• Swords can be driven into the ground by attacking the hilt.
• Metal pool lasts 5 seconds, turns players into metal on contact.
• Registeel buries grounded players for 15% and makes swords spin in midair for 15%.
• Blazing Chamber features flame pillars and Ho-oh.
• Onstage flame pillars do 4%, can't kill.
• Offstage flame pillars do 15%, can kill Mario at 65% if it hits him offscreen.
• Ho-oh quadruples onstage flame pillar height, strengthens offstage flame pillars to 18%.
• Flood Chamber features walkoff, water surge, and Manaphy.
• Bridges can be jumped through from below.
• Water surge pushes players offscreen.
• Manaphy creates a whirlpool with a hole in the middle, ledges are grabbable.
• Dragonmark Chamber features energy blasts or Rayquaza.
• Energy blasts do 15%, kill Mario off the top at 140%.
• Energy blasts have poor vertical range, can't hit players on platforms.
• Rayquaza does 10% with its head, 12% with its body.

 

[Piford]

You mentioned how Olimar's Pikmin can't go through the fire, with the exception to this is the Red Pikmin, who actually can go through it.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

You mentioned how Olimar's Pikmin can't go through the fire, with the exception to this is the Red Pikmin, who actually can go through it.

I thought I had specified, I definitely did in my notes. I'll edit that in real quick.

 

[RanserSSF4]

I've tried this stage out before. I could possibly seeing it become a CP in the future, but I doubt it due to the huge amount of hazard and the fact some transformation segments promote camping (Steel Area and Water Area for example)

 

[chaosmasterro]

I want this stage along with Mushroom KIngdom U legal so badly as CPs.

 

[MegaMissingno]

Surely the metal alone should be enough to warrant a ban.

 

[ぱみゅ]

No it isn't.

DRONE, thank you so much for the research!

Nothing in this stage seems to be even difficult to manage around. The wildest transformation is Registeel's, and even then it isn't too much if you pay it a bit of attention in order not to be surprised by either the falling Swords or the Stomp, while the only actually dangerous hazard is the offstage Flame Pillars (which don't seem difficult to recover high from, plus, they don't last an awful lot).

I love this stage this thread, and everything about them.

 

[Minty_]

This stage is stunningly gorgeous and wonderfully immersive and thematic. It has some fun and interesting properties in it's transformations which lead to interesting game-play.

Then there is Registeel. We hatesess him. He's a huge jerk. He's a stupid dummy head and his stupid swords are stupidly stupid. "Go away!" we says to him but he doesn't listen because of his stupid fat robot head. And he's a filty drunkard. So there.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

If it's any consolation, Registeel (and the rest of the legendaries) are pretty rare. I hesitate to give numbers since I'm basing this off memory rather than data but I'd say they show up less than 25% of the time.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Sorry to say that I see no possibility of this stage being even a CP. Way too many hazards and I didn't even know there was other occurrences of legendary pokemon outside of Rayquaza. That just piles on top of the already big plate of numerous stages hazards.

If the stage somehow just had the water surge only hazard, I could see this as a starter but sadly not the case and Sakurai felt the need to add tons of hazards/walk offs on stages like this Orbital Gate, Gamer, Garden of Hope etc. I'm not really big on stagelists being basically FD/Battlefield clones but it's sadly all we got unless we go outside the box with stages like PS2 Woolly World Skyloft Kongo Jungle 64 and so on as CP.

If people are crazy enough to add stages like this Mushroom Kingdom U and all that to stage lists, expect a smaller turnout. You certainly won't get TO's like Xyro Keitaro and many others to add stages like those.

 

[Linq]

Sorry to say that I see no possibility of this stage being even a CP. Way too many hazards

Hazards alone are not a reason to ban a stage. A stage should only be banned if it gives certain characters game-breaking advantages (circle camping), has random hazards that do not give ample warning, or has persistent features that either take away from the experience or make spectating boring (camping, etc).
I haven't played on this stage too much (or at all against human players) and I haven't experienced the Registeel transformation, but everything else seems rather fair. The metal effect, which lasts for 15 seconds on a transition that will not occur more than once every 3 minutes or so, makes things a bit weird, but I personally feel that it's small enough a time frame to not warrant a ban.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Hazards is a very good reason to keep stages from being played. For example, Brawl PTAD was banned and even Melee eventually banned stages like Pokefloats 2 and Mute city.

Either way doesn't matter what I say, you nor anybody else is seeing this stage and a few others I mentioned on a stage list anytime ever in the future.

 

[Piford]

Hazards is a very good reason to keep stages from being played. For example, Brawl PTAD was banned and even Melee eventually banned stages like Pokefloats 2 and Mute city.

Either way doesn't matter what I say, you nor anybody else is seeing this stage and a few others I mentioned on a stage list anytime ever in the future.

PTAD hazards are random and hit you even when you are supposedly avoiding them. On top of that, the lack of Grabbable ledges means the characters with tether recoveries (Ivysaur, ZSS, and Olimar) are at an extreme disadvantage because they can't really recover. I don't know what you are referring too with Pokéfloats 2, as Pokéfloats does not have any hazards and there's no 2 in the name. Mute City also wasn't banned for hazards, but lack of grabbable ledges. It caused Jigglypuff and Peach to completely dominate on the stage and made it near impossible to win against with characters like Falco. Also, they were testing Kalos at some Tourney Locator tournaments.

 

[Sinister Slush]

PTAD hazards weren't random. Only part of PTAD where you can't see the cars coming from literally miles away is when the ramp is going up. My entire post though wasn't referring to hazards only, just mostly stating even stages without hazards were banned. Mute city's, while hazards, were easily avoidable and you had a metric ton of time to see them coming ala PTAD outside of one part.

Also meant to say just Pokefloats, dunno why I typed a 2. Should also say Dallas is one of the worst places to copy stagelists or playstyles from. Universally agreed upon in TX

 

[Piford]

PTAD hazards weren't random. Only part of PTAD where you can't see the cars coming from literally miles away is when the ramp is going up. My entire post though wasn't referring to hazards only, just mostly stating even stages without hazards were banned. Mute city's, while hazards, were easily avoidable and you had a metric ton of time to see them coming ala PTAD outside of one part.

Also meant to say just Pokefloats, dunno why I typed a 2. Should also say Dallas is one of the worst places to copy stagelists or playstyles from. Universally agreed upon in TX

PTAD I'm pretty sure had random stopping points, but I could be wrong. And yes stages without hazards can be banned, but that doesn't mean we ban stages with hazards. Look at Halberd, the stage has hazards and it's near universally considered legal.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I'm pretty sure at the end of brawl Halberd was banned a year or two before the game pretty much slowed to a crawl, especially in the focal point for main brawl activity NY/NJ. Halberds hazards were three in total, easy to avoid and SDI out of (laser). Kalos has at least 8 hazards (or if people wanna be practical when it's just mirrored for most hazards, 2 pillars swords etc. making the hazards around 12+) and a buff that can prevent people from being killed on one of the transformations.

While I wouldn't see Mushroom Kingdom U a stage cause of the hazards + Nabbt, I would still see that used in a tournament compared to kalos.

The Issue with Kalos is it has too many along with a buff given. That's like if TO's allowed Wario's stage in Brawl to be played for a comparison. They give buffs and have transformations that hurt/kill. Sure you can avoid them easily (being under umbrella to avoid water, jumping over car etc.) but it still is unsafe for competitive play. Rayq and Registeel being the biggest offenders, while not counting legendary pokemon the biggest transformation issues is fire/steel ones.

If anything doubles might be able to play on the stages with hazards since I believe the hazards are removed if 4 players.

 

[Piford]

I'm pretty sure at the end of brawl Halberd was banned a year or two before the game pretty much slowed to a crawl, especially in the focal point for main brawl activity NY/NJ. Halberds hazards were three in total, easy to avoid and SDI out of (laser). Kalos has at least 8 hazards (or if people wanna be practical when it's just mirrored for most hazards, 2 pillars swords etc. making the hazards around 12+) and a buff that can prevent people from being killed on one of the transformations.

While I wouldn't see Mushroom Kingdom U a stage cause of the hazards + Nabbt, I would still see that used in a tournament compared to kalos.

The Issue with Kalos is it has too many along with a buff given. That's like if TO's allowed Wario's stage in Brawl to be played for a comparison. They give buffs and have transformations that hurt/kill. Sure you can avoid them easily (being under umbrella to avoid water, jumping over car etc.) but it still is unsafe for competitive play. Rayq and Registeel being the biggest offenders, while not counting legendary pokemon the biggest transformation issues is fire/steel ones.

If anything doubles might be able to play on the stages with hazards since I believe the hazards are removed if 4 players.

Halberd still is legal in Brawl. Warioware's problem is nothing to do with hazards, but it's the random assignment of awards. We could both complete the mini game, and then I could get nothing and you can get invincibility. Warioware is the absolute worst stage for competitive play ever; Kalos doesn't even come close to that. Kalos does have a lot going against it, but it can't hurt to test it at some tournaments.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I'm pretty sure at the end of brawl Halberd was banned a year or two before the game pretty much slowed to a crawl, especially in the focal point for main brawl activity NY/NJ. Halberds hazards were three in total, easy to avoid and SDI out of (laser). Kalos has at least 8 hazards (or if people wanna be practical when it's just mirrored for most hazards, 2 pillars swords etc. making the hazards around 12+) and a buff that can prevent people from being killed on one of the transformations.

While I wouldn't see Mushroom Kingdom U a stage cause of the hazards + Nabbt, I would still see that used in a tournament compared to kalos.

The Issue with Kalos is it has too many along with a buff given. That's like if TO's allowed Wario's stage in Brawl to be played for a comparison. They give buffs and have transformations that hurt/kill. Sure you can avoid them easily (being under umbrella to avoid water, jumping over car etc.) but it still is unsafe for competitive play. Rayq and Registeel being the biggest offenders, while not counting legendary pokemon the biggest transformation issues is fire/steel ones.

If anything doubles might be able to play on the stages with hazards since I believe the hazards are removed if 4 players.

Halberd was banned because of Meta Knight sharking under the stage, not because of the Combo Cannon. (EDIT: According to Piford it's not even banned, whoops.) Warioware was banned because players had no influence over the rewards given out for completing a microgame. One player could become giant while the other got invincibility. (And yes, the microgames are disruptive too, but IMO they're a secondary concern.) Kalos's hazards, while numerous and powerful, are predictable and shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who's studied the stage. And this topic has done the work for them anyway, so there's really no excuse.

Note that I'm not trying to support Kalos as a legal stage. I'd love to see it happen, but I'm realistic enough to admit it's hardly likely. But "it has hazards" is not a valid reason to ban a stage by itself, there needs to be additional discussion about how powerful/overbearing the hazards are and whether they're ultimately detrimental to gameplay, and preferably actual test matches so it's more than just theorycraft.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Never said you were Drone, along with never saying the canon was the reason it was banned.
Forgot to bring up MK though much like delfino and RC being banned cause of MK.

 

[Masonomace]

So I'm just gonna say that this stage can be pretty cheezy easy for Shulk to play on. Saying my 2 cents about the 1st transition:

• The Ironworks Chamber transition producing the Metal Pool can augment Shulk on top of having a MArt active (if Registeel doesn't step in). The Metal Pool's effect lasts for 15 seconds, which is the same amount of time a MArt can last for. All of Shulk's Monado Arts can have great synergy with the Metal effect (e.g. An experienced Metal Jump Shulk player wouldn't worry about possibly dying from falling too fast while edge-guarding or recovering, because Shulk only has two jumps / one DoubleJump, which doesn't make it as insufferable, yet for characters having multiple jumps for recovering will suffer from the Metal effect so they might not opt getting it. Metal Speed Shulk's movement speed is still quick & is barely affected, while taking advantage of the Metal effect's boosts. Metal Shield Shulk would be so heavy It'd be impossible to recover back. . .except it's pretty much impossible to get Metal Shield Shulk off-stage). There's so many factors in ties with the Metal effect to the MArts that I won't say, but basically if this stage is allowed anywhere, then Shulk players that are aware of the Metal effect in combination with their MArts can exploit it twice for 30 seconds of the match, which is a very clear advantage.

I haven't thoroughly experimented with the rest of the stage's transitions, but personally Idk if I want this stage legal. I dig it, but I see it being banned.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I was under the impression Shulk's default Arts lasted 10 seconds, Decisive Arts 20, and Hyper Arts 6.

 

[Masonomace]

I was under the impression Shulk's default Arts lasted 10 seconds, Decisive Arts 20, and Hyper Arts 6.

Monado Arts according to Smashwiki say that Hyper Arts last for 5, while I thought they lasted 6, but meh not too much of a difference. Though Monado Arts last for 15 / 16 seconds, not 10. But yeah, 15 - 16 seconds combined with the Metal effect can be pretty dumb for happening twice.

 

[MajorMajora]

Hazards aren't a reason to ban something. That's like food has gone bad because it has mold on it. Yeah, that's true a lot of the time, but there are people who like blue cheese, ya know. What makes food bad is if there's poisonous mold on it. Similarly, a hazard has to be proven as being degenerate before it can be banned.

How do we do that? Well testing it out and recording the video to analyze it is a pretty good first step.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I have one but I didn't play serious on it so I think it hardly counts. Granted, I wasn't killed by the hazards and only got hit by them for not being careful enough.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

@ Budget Player Cadet_ and I played a few matches on Kalos (and Gamer, and Yoshi's Island, but I think those two are lost causes) and I think he may have some replays. If someone were willing to take them (yay sharing) and make videos out of them it may be a good starting point.

Only wrinkle is that I sort of got wrecked. I'm in dire need of practice.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I do not have those replays; my entire replay stash was nuked with the update, remember?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I do not have those replays; my entire replay stash was nuked with the update, remember?

Couldn't remember if we played before or after Mewtwo. Oh well.

 

[meticulousboy]

My favorite song to play on this stage is Route 10. I am pretty sure it's enjoyable to hear on the non-omega version, too.