Social King K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: This...Is Our Finest Hour!

[Deleted member]

A new ballot? I personally don't see the point, but eh? we'll see they have ideas for characters. So their good on that end. But we'll see.

 

[MattOnwheels]

Who's HMK?

Tip of the Ice Berg you say?

Lord Fredrik confirmed.

Apparently Nintendo said that all we saw so far with #SuperSmashBrosUltimate is literally the tip of the Iceberg...

DUDE WHAT!?!?

— HMK (@HMKilla) June 23, 2018

 

[daddledingo]

Nah, just K. Rool's new Arctic-themed persona, Kris K. Ringle.

Clever boi

 

[MattOnwheels]

I now need a holiday DKCR DLC where K. Rool tries to steal christmas dressed like Santa.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Apparently Nintendo said that all we saw so far with #SuperSmashBrosUltimate is literally the tip of the Iceberg...

DUDE WHAT!?!?

— HMK (@HMKilla) June 23, 2018

Is he credible tho? I've never heard of this guy.
While he does not specify anything, I don't know why we would listen to him.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I now need a holiday DKCR DLC where K. Rool tries to steal christmas dressed like Santa.

Every Kong down in Kong Isles Liked Kristmas a lot...
But the Kroc, who lived just north of the Isles, Did NOT!
The Kroc hated Kristmas! The whole Kristmas season!
Now, please don't ask why. No one quite knows the reason.
It could be his head wasn't screwed on just right.
It could be, perhaps, that his krown was too tight.
But I think that the most likely reason of all,
May have been that his heart was two sizes too small.

 

[MattOnwheels]

Every Kong down in Kong Isles Liked Kristmas a lot...
But the Kroc, who lived just north of the Isles, Did NOT!
The Kroc hated Kristmas! The whole Kristmas season!
Now, please don't ask why. No one quite knows the reason.
It could be his head wasn't screwed on just right.
It could be, perhaps, that his krown was too tight.
But I think that the most likely reason of all,
May have been that his heart was two sizes too small.

"THEY'LL BE WAKING UP NOW, AND I KNOW JUST WHAT THEY'LL DO...ALL THOSE KONGS DOWN IN KONG ISLES WILL ALL SCREECH! "HOO! HOO-OOO!"

Is he credible tho? I've never heard of this guy.
While he does not specify anything, I don't know why we would listen to him.

He's a rather big youtuber and thus likely went to E3 and heard it. While I'm not sure, he's not a nobody.

 

[StormC]

New things have come out since the last one. I know I didn't get to vote any of the Champions, and I hadn't considered voting Dovahkiin either since Skyrim is a 'big-boy' game and would never end up on a Nintendo console. Besides, there are loads of support threads for Pauline, LABO robot, ARMS, etc.

I think a new ballot would be sorta poor publicity because it would basically be saying "your last votes didn't really matter, vote again!" I don't see another ballot happening for maybe 5-7 years, if ever.

 

[MattOnwheels]

I think a new ballot would be sorta poor publicity because it would basically be saying "your last votes didn't really matter, vote again!" I don't see another ballot happening for maybe 5-7 years, if ever.

I dunno. The ballot mattered insofar as getting Beyo in. It's basically whoever gets the most votes and can be negotiable. I'd say a yearly contest like that would be fun.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I agree with StormC.
The last Ballot is enough evidence to go by to satisfy the fans.
Now, to counter the argument for the champions and other recent things that were absent from the Ballot days. Nintendo will notice themselves who and what is popular in the recent times without pulling out a new Ballot.

The Ballot itself is the lifeline for older characters.

 

[MattOnwheels]

Maybe a new ballot every few games, then. Space it out.

 

[Organization XIII]

The problem with that is nothing suggests Ridley was added for anything but popularity, meaning he didn’t need relevancy or promotion either. At the time the roster was decided, Metroid was dead. And Sakurai literally said it was popularity that got him in. Full stop.

My main issue with all of these discussions is I’m not sure why people come in here and tell us things we’ve heard for years when this is clearly a brand new smash with a new ideology. Even if that’s not true, (not directed specifically at you) why go into a fanbase’s thread and tell them how unlikely you think they are?

Mate I think we got our wires crossed somewhere. At no point was I ever discussing Ridley and in fact I started earlier he got in do purely to fan demand. And I have very much been vocal that this game is following a different selection process. My initial response was to a guy talking about how Megaman wasn't promotion and I went and said no 3rd parties are because they get in do to name recognition.

 

[MattOnwheels]

Mate I think we got our wires crossed somewhere. At no point was I ever discussing Ridley and in fact I started earlier he got in do purely to fan demand. And I have very much been vocal that this game is following a different selection process. My initial response was to a guy talking about how Megaman wasn't promotion and I went and said no 3rd parties are because they get in do to name recognition.

Certainly Megaman wasn't promotion. Capcom hates him deep down. Even Megaman 11 looks cheap to me.

 

[CrimsonFireWolf]

A lot of different polling sources from multiple surveys of people, wanted to know who did you voted for the smash ballot. Came up with difference variances of people vote of who they chose, but there's was always a few constants.

For example one was bring back my favorite character from past games. The other one was make Ridley a playable character. So I personally think, that Sakura is listening to us up to a particular point

 

[Spirit Toons]

Well, this is neat. Go offline for a few hours and see how this community has devolved. Like, I never said the Krool fandom was insane, and everyone seems to ignore the fact that I literally went over why every character was added and is now saying that I ignore points.

No, Sakurai doesn’t have a set rule set, I know this, but you can easily identify patterns in his choices and even the way he presents characters, like having Ganondorf over Ganon due to being the more recent incarnation in Melee, along with having a tech demo model he can use.

I mine as well go through a few points though;

The Mii fighter costumes don’t prove anything. Yes Krool has a new model, but other new models are Gil, Jacky, Lloyd and the Monster Hunter outfits. Not all of them used existing models from Smash

As for Takamaru, he became relevant before Smash, when Nintendo Land headlined him and his franchise as one of the 12 mini-games. Not to mention the first time his game was released outside of Japan was in the same year as Smash’s release.

Mega Man was still relevant when included, as I said, Mega Man 9 and 10 released within the time window between Brawl and 4. Mega Man also has some cancelled projects due to differences between the creator and Capcom. Capcom, for all intents and purposes, still tried to keep Mega Man alive in the current year. It just so happened that Smash was the break through Mega Man needed to become super popular again and for people to view Capcom’s efforts in a positive light. Also, if third parties are different, then why was my point on Mega Man brought up in defense of Krool?

Snake is still relevant as well, like guys Metal Gear V released only 3 years ago. Metal Gear is also getting another game soon. Snake can be seen as a Mega Man though, the company still uses him, yet they get hate for “killing the franchise,” so Konami may be using Smash for positive feedback.


Now on to Krool. While he does have popularity and maybe the SNES Classic (If Nintendo actually sells those) Krool just isn’t a used character. Taking even a full view of DK’s games, a majority of DK’s years have been away from Krool, like more than half his franchise’s life span. Actually, Nintendo themselves seem to arguably hate Rare’s work. I mean, we went through the GameCube generation with no mention of anything Country related outside of Diddy once Rare left. Nintendo removed the Country title and took out many of the characters for no reason. Even DK’s personality changed from a more 90’s, Bart Simpson like attitude, literally coming down with a huge boom box to anger Cranky, to just a dumb ape.

Even going into Retro’s revival, while some Kong’s are brought back, the enemies, the design, and the attitude of DK games has definitely changed to be completely different from Rare.

I honestly think that Nintendo is trying to keep Rare’s work dead. I mean, look how long it took to get DKC virtual console, or how Donkey Kong lost his entire cast in the 2000s, or how DKCR and DKCTF have nothing to do with the Country games, along with titles like Jungle Beat, I think Nintendo wants DK to go in a new direction to a more ape personality, than the cool and “hip” personality the franchise had in the 90s. Donkey Kong has a more “timeless” feel now, more in line with Mario than ever before. Nintendo clearly didn’t want Rare during the GC era if their lack of urgency buying the company before Microsoft is any indicator.

One big problem is that Miyamoto took issues with Rare, literally creating Yoshi’s Island as a middle finger to them and how Nintendo treated their work. Miyamoto seemed pretty annoyed (at least) at what Rare did to DK and how that affected his projects. Rare even shot back at Miyamoto, ditching DK for Dixie and Diddy in the sequel game, and left him out again in 3.

I bring up Nintendo’s history with DK as I feel that the direction of DK hinges on the blurring of the past. It’s obvious that Nintendo didn’t feel or want to build off Rare after the departure, instead opting to change DK to what Miyamoto wants from the character. So, to see a Rare character in Smash seems odd, when Nintendo is throwing out or writing over DK’s history so much. Even if relevancy isn’t a good argument, I feel a character’s treatment in the hands of Nintendo is, and with Krool and really Rare’s part in the franchise treated with so much content from Miyamoto and higher ups, I really think Krool’s chances are limited as Nintendo seems to want Rare erased for now. DK has a new direction and I feel Krool’s absence wasn’t a mistake, but deliberate as Retro wants their own mark on the franchise and Nintendo wants a new DK for the current generation to admire, so why bring in old characters that go against the new direction.

If you want more info on DK after Rare, check out this video. It really shows that Rare’s Influences on the franchise was numbered after the Microsoft buy out. It’s a review of GC DK games, but it really shows how far Nintendo went to kill off Rare.

 

[spoilerowl]

All of your points are kind of discredited by the fact that you clearly twist things to the narrative that Nintendo has some vendetta against Rare. What's far more likely is that they simply felt they should make Donkey Kong games on their own merits instead of relying on characters created by Rare. This rings especially true in the GameCube era where Rare's departure was still recent. Now they're slowly warming back up to it, with Dixie's return. And most bet K. Rool and the Kremlings will follow suit in the next Country game.

The Donkey Kong Country / Yoshi's Island thing is a myth, by the way, Miyamoto refuted it in like 2010. It just got perpetuated to the point of most people believing it.

Regardless of all of this, Sakurai is not Nintendo. He works for them, even answers to them, but the only way Nintendo would have any impact on K. Rool would be if Sakurai had to propose K. Rool to them and they vetoed him, for which they have no real reason to do.

Edit: And again, almost no one here is saying he's guaranteed. We just finally have reason to be at least a little optimistic after the fanservice-fest that was the E3 reveal.

 

[Jetsurge]

Well, this is neat. Go offline for a few hours and see how this community has devolved. Like, I never said the Krool fandom was insane, and everyone seems to ignore the fact that I literally went over why every character was added and is now saying that I ignore points.

No, Sakurai doesn’t have a set rule set, I know this, but you can easily identify patterns in his choices and even the way he presents characters, like having Ganondorf over Ganon due to being the more recent incarnation in Melee, along with having a tech demo model he can use.

I mine as well go through a few points though;

The Mii fighter costumes don’t prove anything. Yes Krool has a new model, but other new models are Gil, Jacky, Lloyd and the Monster Hunter outfits. Not all of them used existing models from Smash

As for Takamaru, he became relevant before Smash, when Nintendo Land headlined him and his franchise as one of the 12 mini-games. Not to mention the first time his game was released outside of Japan was in the same year as Smash’s release.

Mega Man was still relevant when included, as I said, Mega Man 9 and 10 released within the time window between Brawl and 4. Mega Man also has some cancelled projects due to differences between the creator and Capcom. Capcom, for all intents and purposes, still tried to keep Mega Man alive in the current year. It just so happened that Smash was the break through Mega Man needed to become super popular again and for people to view Capcom’s efforts in a positive light. Also, if third parties are different, then why was my point on Mega Man brought up in defense of Krool?

Snake is still relevant as well, like guys Metal Gear V released only 3 years ago. Metal Gear is also getting another game soon. Snake can be seen as a Mega Man though, the company still uses him, yet they get hate for “killing the franchise,” so Konami may be using Smash for positive feedback.


Now on to Krool. While he does have popularity and maybe the SNES Classic (If Nintendo actually sells those) Krool just isn’t a used character. Taking even a full view of DK’s games, a majority of DK’s years have been away from Krool, like more than half his franchise’s life span. Actually, Nintendo themselves seem to arguably hate Rare’s work. I mean, we went through the GameCube generation with no mention of anything Country related outside of Diddy once Rare left. Nintendo removed the Country title and took out many of the characters for no reason. Even DK’s personality changed from a more 90’s, Bart Simpson like attitude, literally coming down with a huge boom box to anger Cranky, to just a dumb ape.

Even going into Retro’s revival, while some Kong’s are brought back, the enemies, the design, and the attitude of DK games has definitely changed to be completely different from Rare.

I honestly think that Nintendo is trying to keep Rare’s work dead. I mean, look how long it took to get DKC virtual console, or how Donkey Kong lost his entire cast in the 2000s, or how DKCR and DKCTF have nothing to do with the Country games, along with titles like Jungle Beat, I think Nintendo wants DK to go in a new direction to a more ape personality, than the cool and “hip” personality the franchise had in the 90s. Donkey Kong has a more “timeless” feel now, more in line with Mario than ever before. Nintendo clearly didn’t want Rare during the GC era if their lack of urgency buying the company before Microsoft is any indicator.

One big problem is that Miyamoto took issues with Rare, literally creating Yoshi’s Island as a middle finger to them and how Nintendo treated their work. Miyamoto seemed pretty annoyed (at least) at what Rare did to DK and how that affected his projects. Rare even shot back at Miyamoto, ditching DK for Dixie and Diddy in the sequel game, and left him out again in 3.

I bring up Nintendo’s history with DK as I feel that the direction of DK hinges on the blurring of the past. It’s obvious that Nintendo didn’t feel or want to build off Rare after the departure, instead opting to change DK to what Miyamoto wants from the character. So, to see a Rare character in Smash seems odd, when Nintendo is throwing out or writing over DK’s history so much. Even if relevancy isn’t a good argument, I feel a character’s treatment in the hands of Nintendo is, and with Krool and really Rare’s part in the franchise treated with so much content from Miyamoto and higher ups, I really think Krool’s chances are limited as Nintendo seems to want Rare erased for now. DK has a new direction and I feel Krool’s absence wasn’t a mistake, but deliberate as Retro wants their own mark on the franchise and Nintendo wants a new DK for the current generation to admire, so why bring in old characters that go against the new direction.

If you want more info on DK after Rare, check out this video. It really shows that Rare’s Influences on the franchise was numbered after the Microsoft buy out. It’s a review of GC DK games, but it really shows how far Nintendo went to kill off Rare.

Yeah because Nintendo totally want to bury Rare's DK.

 

[StormC]

"I support K. Rool but I'm going to argue in bad faith against his chances based on little to no tangible data, simply my own guesswork and hypothesis about the inner workings of Nintendo and their politics, while also constantly moving the goalposts."

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

I see the detracting continues........ oh and insults thrown at the K. Rool fanbase... I never would have thought fans of K. Rool would argue with someone who's trying to argue against his inclusion

Mind = Blown

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

"I support K. Rool but I'm going to argue in bad faith against his chances based on little to no tangible data, simply my own guesswork and hypothesis about the inner workings of Nintendo and their politics, while also constantly moving the goalposts."

I'm not going to agree with the guy but the word "Troll" these days is just being thrown around like crazy. It's kind of just a label used to dismiss people without having to actually interact with them.

 

[StormC]

I'm not going to agree with the guy but the word "Troll" these days is just being thrown around like crazy. It's kind of just a label used to dismiss people without having to actually interact with them.

Did you actually read the definition of the term?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Did you actually read the definition of the term?

That definition assumes you actually know the intention of the person, which unless you're psychic you don't.

You're just flat out dismissing someone because you assume they have bad intentions.

Everyone these days just assumed anyone that disagrees with them has bad intentions and doesn't want to interact with them so they throw the label troll.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Yeah no one on this thread is saying that he's in for sure. We're just hopeful this time around. I don't see anything wrong with that. I'll be disappointed if he isn't in but I don't think anyone is actually going to be blindsided if K. Rool doesn't appear in Smash 5. Maybe surprised, but nobody's saying he's 100%. I think after Ridley got in anything's fair game at this point.

Thats the best part about K Rool though. If he is not in we are use to it....but OH BABY....if he is...it will be one happy rest of the year for most if not all of us!

 

[MattOnwheels]

I think both Spirit Toon and Psycho are incorrect. He isn't "Trolling" but there is s lot wrong about what ST said.

 

[GalacticPetey]

No, Sakurai doesn’t have a set rule set, I know this, but you can easily identify patterns in his choices and even the way he presents characters, like having Ganondorf over Ganon due to being the more recent incarnation in Melee, along with having a tech demo model he can use.

So, not to nitpick on a minor point in a large post, but I want to stop some spread of misinformation.

Ganondorf is perhaps the luckiest possible inclusion in Smash. So the clones were a last minute idea and Ganondorf was the very last one added. The debug menu confirms this. There were a lot of factors.

1. Extremely popular character request.
2. Model was readilly available from the SpaceWorld demo
3. His model fit Captain Falcon.

Saying he "got in over Ganon" is a little misleading because it was literally Ganondorf or nothing. Ganon wasn't in the cards because there wasn't time left for a fully fleshed out newcomer.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Ganondorf getting over Ganon is kind of a dumb claim

Ganondorf IS Ganon. OoT set that as a president for the entire series.

The Wind Waker came out almost a year later. I'm not sure what the development times for the Gamecube were but certainly they had the impression of Ganondorf's return in that game

It's also comparing apples to oranges because Ganondorf and Ganon are one and the same while whoever the Snowbad leader is is not the latest incarnation of K Rool

 

[GravelerChamp60]

I guess we should once again clear up the reason why King K Rool hasnt been in recent DK Country games since there are a few people who have misinformation. So K Rool hasnt been in DK country games because the new developers simply wanted to put their input with new characters of their own. Now that in no way means that Nintendo abandoned the character, its the developers who had the freedom to choose whoever they felt like putting in the game, fair and simple.


I would also like to point out that a new Smash ballot is kind of useless. I think the original ballot gave Sakurai a realistic understanding of what the fans want and a huge array of characters that are yet to make it to the game. At that point in time Sakurai knows that almost every major character has been put in the game so now the fans give him an insight of what secondary characters can still be used for the game and maybe the ballot gave him character ideas that he never came up with before like K Rool possibly.

 

[Jeck]

Hot damn we've gotten wordy in here. Hopefully we stay far away from the disrespectful Waluigi fanbase side of things rather than the Ridley fanbase. Not that I can speak for all constituents but still.

 

[MattOnwheels]

I think it's important that we remind people of one very important thing:

WE ARE ALL VERY MUCH AWARE THAT KING K. ROOL IS NOT A SHOE-IN. WE ARE IN NO WAY SAYING THAT IT WOULD NOT HELP HIS CHANCES TO'VE APPEARED IN A GAME MORE RECENTLY THAN HE HAS BEEN. THESE ARE THINGS WE MUST RECTIFY BY LETTING NINTENDO KNOW HE HAS A LARGE ENOUGH FAN BASE TO WARRANT HIS RE-INCLUSION WITHIN THE MAIN DK SERIES. WE INTEND TO ACCOMPLISH THIS BY PUSHING FIRST TOWARD HIS EVENTUAL ARRIVAL IN SMASH, WHICH WILL BE A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. COMING INTO THIS THREAD AND LISTING ALL OF THE REASONS HE WON'T BE INCLUDED SOLVES **NOTHING**! IF YOU ARE NOT HERE TO LEND SUPPORT AND PROVIDE A CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION AS TO HOW TO RAISE AWARENESS AND ACCOMPLISH THIS GOAL, YOU ARE BEING COUNTERPRODUCTIVE AND ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT ANY CONCERNS YOU HAVE ARE MORE THAN LIKELY NOT THINGS WE HAVEN'T ALREADY THOUGHT ABOUT AD NAUSSEAM.

Now, carry on and remain civil~

 

[EricTheGamerman]

This is starting to feel a little bit like the Ridley threads around Smash 4's speculation period, not as bad, but things seem a little more reminiscent of that than I care to admit. Back then Ridley was such the absurd character choice for reasons A-Z, and as such a big character in terms of fan base constantly brought in wave after wave of detractors and people hell bent on telling others why they were wrong for supporting him. King K. Rool was a big fan base, but seen as far more reasonable for reasons X and Y... Interesting change of pace, but not a good thing to be recalling in any thread.

I guess with Ridley in, Waluigi deconfirmed and the fits thrown accordingly, King K. Rool is the biggest name in most Smash communities and he is going to attract much of the attention as a result. People are never going to be content with Smash, and are always going to claim to know how Sakurai does stuff. He's clearly making a game with fans in mind this time, so the playing field has the potential to be far more different this time around, patterns, relevance, and so on be damned.

We're allowed to have disagreements on a character's chances, but boy, it'd be nice to not hear the same damn argument over and over about relevancy in every. single. thread. on new characters. That argument is the most exhausting and assumption based claim that people parade as fact so often, and even if it holds semi-true, it's always a guaranteed way to halt all discussion to bicker about that fact and not the character's at hand...

 

[MattOnwheels]

This is starting to feel a little bit like the Ridley threads around Smash 4's speculation period, not as bad, but things seem a little more reminiscent of that than I care to admit. Back then Ridley was such the absurd character choice for reasons A-Z, and as such a big character in terms of fan base constantly brought in wave after wave of detractors and people hell bent on telling others why they were wrong for supporting him. King K. Rool was a big fan base, but seen as far more reasonable for reasons X and Y... Interesting change of pace, but not a good thing to be recalling in any thread.

I guess with Ridley in, Waluigi deconfirmed and the fits thrown accordingly, King K. Rool is the biggest name in most Smash communities and he is going to attract much of the attention as a result. People are never going to be content with Smash, and are always going to claim to know how Sakurai does stuff. He's clearly making a game with fans in mind this time, so the playing field has the potential to be far more different this time around, patterns, relevance, and so on be damned.

We're allowed to have disagreements on a character's chances, but boy, it'd be nice to not hear the same damn argument over and over about relevancy in every. single. thread. on new characters. That argument is the most exhausting and assumption based claim that people parade as fact so often, and even if it holds semi-true, it's always a guaranteed way to halt all discussion to bicker about that fact and not the character's at hand...

Its trying but exciting times, man! Its SMASH SEASON! it's a beautiful thing, if not chaotic.

I would say we K. Rool fans are gonna be catching hell a bit now, but the important thing is to be civil, but PASSIONATE too! Don't be afraid! Any idea worth its salt, such as K rool in Smash, can be defended in a calm manner!~

 

[Jetsurge]

This is starting to feel a little bit like the Ridley threads around Smash 4's speculation period, not as bad, but things seem a little more reminiscent of that than I care to admit. Back then Ridley was such the absurd character choice for reasons A-Z, and as such a big character in terms of fan base constantly brought in wave after wave of detractors and people hell bent on telling others why they were wrong for supporting him. King K. Rool was a big fan base, but seen as far more reasonable for reasons X and Y... Interesting change of pace, but not a good thing to be recalling in any thread.

I guess with Ridley in, Waluigi deconfirmed and the fits thrown accordingly, King K. Rool is the biggest name in most Smash communities and he is going to attract much of the attention as a result. People are never going to be content with Smash, and are always going to claim to know how Sakurai does stuff. He's clearly making a game with fans in mind this time, so the playing field has the potential to be far more different this time around, patterns, relevance, and so on be damned.

We're allowed to have disagreements on a character's chances, but boy, it'd be nice to not hear the same damn argument over and over about relevancy in every. single. thread. on new characters. That argument is the most exhausting and assumption based claim that people parade as fact so often, and even if it holds semi-true, it's always a guaranteed way to halt all discussion to bicker about that fact and not the character's at hand...

We don't have this:

 

[StormC]

We don't have this:

This comes pretty close.

 

[Jetsurge]

This comes pretty close.

But that was in the previous game and Inkling has proven mii costumes can become fighters. Anyway the costume helps him now since the roster was made in December 2015 right after the costume was made. We know K. Rool was on their minds.

 

[MattOnwheels]

This comes pretty close.

THATS NOT K. ROOL....THATS HEARTACHE!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Sakurai *killed* Mario in Ridley’s character trailer. He has the power to add whatever popular characters he wants.

Sakurai has far more control over Nintendo newcomers than people think.

 

[Sirfishe]

I say HMK is pretty credible. He's not like a random guy saying random stuff just to get attention. He shares big news and mostly enjoys talking about kingdom hearts. He to thinks King K Rools a good choice for a fighter and he only talks about details that are confirmed. Besides, the other leaker already stated there are still half a dozen characters not revealed yet.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

The problem is "the tip of the iceberg" is pretty vague. They may not be talking about newcomers at all.

Also I wouldn't put it past somebody working at Nintendo on the e3 floor to exaggerate.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Yeah because Nintendo totally want to bury Rare's DK.

POW, Uppercut right in the face!

Sakurai has far more control over Nintendo newcomers than people think.

I Masterhero Samurai have the power moohahahaha!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, this is neat. Go offline for a few hours and see how this community has devolved. Like, I never said the Krool fandom was insane, and everyone seems to ignore the fact that I literally went over why every character was added and is now saying that I ignore points.

No, Sakurai doesn’t have a set rule set, I know this, but you can easily identify patterns in his choices and even the way he presents characters, like having Ganondorf over Ganon due to being the more recent incarnation in Melee, along with having a tech demo model he can use.

I mine as well go through a few points though;

The Mii fighter costumes don’t prove anything. Yes Krool has a new model, but other new models are Gil, Jacky, Lloyd and the Monster Hunter outfits. Not all of them used existing models from Smash

As for Takamaru, he became relevant before Smash, when Nintendo Land headlined him and his franchise as one of the 12 mini-games. Not to mention the first time his game was released outside of Japan was in the same year as Smash’s release.

Mega Man was still relevant when included, as I said, Mega Man 9 and 10 released within the time window between Brawl and 4. Mega Man also has some cancelled projects due to differences between the creator and Capcom. Capcom, for all intents and purposes, still tried to keep Mega Man alive in the current year. It just so happened that Smash was the break through Mega Man needed to become super popular again and for people to view Capcom’s efforts in a positive light. Also, if third parties are different, then why was my point on Mega Man brought up in defense of Krool?

Snake is still relevant as well, like guys Metal Gear V released only 3 years ago. Metal Gear is also getting another game soon. Snake can be seen as a Mega Man though, the company still uses him, yet they get hate for “killing the franchise,” so Konami may be using Smash for positive feedback.


Now on to Krool. While he does have popularity and maybe the SNES Classic (If Nintendo actually sells those) Krool just isn’t a used character. Taking even a full view of DK’s games, a majority of DK’s years have been away from Krool, like more than half his franchise’s life span. Actually, Nintendo themselves seem to arguably hate Rare’s work. I mean, we went through the GameCube generation with no mention of anything Country related outside of Diddy once Rare left. Nintendo removed the Country title and took out many of the characters for no reason. Even DK’s personality changed from a more 90’s, Bart Simpson like attitude, literally coming down with a huge boom box to anger Cranky, to just a dumb ape.

Even going into Retro’s revival, while some Kong’s are brought back, the enemies, the design, and the attitude of DK games has definitely changed to be completely different from Rare.

I honestly think that Nintendo is trying to keep Rare’s work dead. I mean, look how long it took to get DKC virtual console, or how Donkey Kong lost his entire cast in the 2000s, or how DKCR and DKCTF have nothing to do with the Country games, along with titles like Jungle Beat, I think Nintendo wants DK to go in a new direction to a more ape personality, than the cool and “hip” personality the franchise had in the 90s. Donkey Kong has a more “timeless” feel now, more in line with Mario than ever before. Nintendo clearly didn’t want Rare during the GC era if their lack of urgency buying the company before Microsoft is any indicator.

One big problem is that Miyamoto took issues with Rare, literally creating Yoshi’s Island as a middle finger to them and how Nintendo treated their work. Miyamoto seemed pretty annoyed (at least) at what Rare did to DK and how that affected his projects. Rare even shot back at Miyamoto, ditching DK for Dixie and Diddy in the sequel game, and left him out again in 3.

I bring up Nintendo’s history with DK as I feel that the direction of DK hinges on the blurring of the past. It’s obvious that Nintendo didn’t feel or want to build off Rare after the departure, instead opting to change DK to what Miyamoto wants from the character. So, to see a Rare character in Smash seems odd, when Nintendo is throwing out or writing over DK’s history so much. Even if relevancy isn’t a good argument, I feel a character’s treatment in the hands of Nintendo is, and with Krool and really Rare’s part in the franchise treated with so much content from Miyamoto and higher ups, I really think Krool’s chances are limited as Nintendo seems to want Rare erased for now. DK has a new direction and I feel Krool’s absence wasn’t a mistake, but deliberate as Retro wants their own mark on the franchise and Nintendo wants a new DK for the current generation to admire, so why bring in old characters that go against the new direction.

If you want more info on DK after Rare, check out this video. It really shows that Rare’s Influences on the franchise was numbered after the Microsoft buy out. It’s a review of GC DK games, but it really shows how far Nintendo went to kill off Rare.

You seem to miss a few things here however.

If Nintendo actually "hated" Rare's work, why did they port all three of the Donkey Kong Country games to the Gameboy Advance after Rare left? Rare even created those remakes themselves. They also created Banjo-Pilot afterwards. And eventually, even Donkey Kong 64 came out on the virtual console. Did you also miss the street signs of King K.Rool and other Rare created characters in Mario Oddysey? The DK64 remix of the Donkey Kong DLC of Mario x Rabbids?

The people who created Donkey Kong Country Returns where also very knowledgable about the SNES DKC games, and Miyamoto leaded the project yet again much like the first Donkey Kong Country. Yes, Rare might've been far more ambitious with the franchsie than Nintendo was. But for Nintendo, DKC was just a project to revive one of their beloved characters and give him a world of himself, which they done with Mario themselves and even to Wario. Rare took on the project, DKC was a huge success and it was a great success for Nintendo during the "console wars", thus Rare was given more authority over the franchise seeing as they totally fleshed it out. It's Nintendo's own neglectance of the franchise that lead to this situation. They went aloof and expected Rare to keep up with the same success. Yet Rare was even more ambitious and tried to create a better name for themselves with their N64 classics as Banjo-Kazooie, Diddy Kong Racing and Jetforce Gemini. Things turned sour, Donkey Kong wasn't as much Rare's main priority, money became an issue, Microsoft was ambitious and obviously is a big cash cow... and well, we all know how things fell apart since then.

Regardless of what happened, Donkey Kong Country itself is a HUGE success. It's a one standalone gaming franchise that was properly fleshed out by a foreign, non-Nintendo studio starring a legendary Nintendo character that lead the to future namesake, success and overall image of said character. I can't think of any other gaming franchise ever with these "complications", yet the overall AMBITION which is shown with Donkey Kong Country is felt by everyone who touched it. It's therefore a shame that Donkey Kong isn't as much as a namesake as he could've been. Seeing how succesfull Mario is, DKC could easily be as great as Zelda is nowadays. After Mario, Zelda and Pokemon, Donkey Kong IS the most major franchise of Nintendo after all!

I also would like to adress that even IF Nintendo had a sour relationship with Rare, and made their remarks towards them as Miyamoto's "DKC is just cool graphics but bad gameplay" (he was clearly h8n') and they did create Donkey Kong Jungle Beat as to establish THEIR version of Donkey Kong as the canon one, it didn't went as well as they hoped. Jungle Beat as received rather poorly compared to Donkey Kong Country, even did worse than DK64. Even on the Wii, it wasn't as succesful. And keep in mind that all Rare-created characters where still used in the DK games a little studio called PAON (I miss you guys) created; DK King of Swing, DK Jungle Climber and DK Barrel Blast.

DK Jungle Climber and DK King of Swing also had enemies return from the Rare games, Diddy was playable and a buddy in Jungle Climber, they brought back other Kongs even if they didn't do much, the Kremlings and King K.Rool where the major atagonists... Tell me how exactly did they want to kill off Rare's work completely if they also released this? It's just Nintendo who refused to work with them, as they didn't create them themselves and have a sort of "superiority" complex because of this. Which is why they focussed harder on a sub-franchise called Mario VS Donkey Kong...

See, they knew they couldn't handle the way Donkey Kong Country has established itself from that point, so they focussed on their own created version of Donkey Kong, which failed, and lead out to them having to represent "that" version of Donkey Kong in a "sub-franchise" called Mario vs Donkey Kong. They couldn't bring back DK Jr. either because Diddy Kong already excisted.

The Donkey Konga games also featured Rare-created characters, and Diddy Kong also crossed over with Mario in quite a couple of games since Rare left, because Nintendo knew very well that Diddy was marketable -being easily Rare's personal "main character" in the Donkey Kong Country franchise they establised.

Yes, even IF the first Donkey Kong Country created a whole new enviorment, world, famliy and lore for the legendary Donkey Kong, Rare's priority wasn't exactly with the character himself. Rare was always a few steps ahead at that time. They build off from DKC1's great success, and the next move was creating a game for Donkey Kong, but using their OWN character Diddy. A very bold move, and it paid off extremely well. Only to backfire at them a little with Donkey Kong Country 3. If we where to take a critical look at the SNES DKCs, we can say that the 3 most major characters of those 3 games would be Diddy, Dixie and King K.Rool, with Donkey Kong taking a more backseated role. I could argue that even Cranky and Funky have established themselves more than Donkey Kong himself did.

Fast forward to 2018, all seems well now. Donkey Kong himself is at a stronger position in his own franchise, being fully playable in DKC Returns and Tropical Freeze as the main character, with most of the supporting cast back with very respectable roles. First only Diddy, Cranky and Rambi in Returns as to focus more on establishing somewhat new with keeping what's most important, and then Tropical Freeze with even the music composer of the original DKCs, Dixie being back after a long time, Cranky being playable in a main DKC game for the first time, and eventually even Funky.

Nintendo seems to know how to handle the franchise themselves now. Which is again, not done by themselves but with a couple of people who really loved the original games and want to build up on them. Rare won't be back, but segments of their work will eventually show up in time. Why else would Nintendo even ask them to make Diddy Kong Racing DS? A lot of rumors even excist in Nintendo wanting a sequal to Diddy Kong Racing since a long time.

They also know that King K.Rool is sorely missed. Because we where lucky that Rare was able to flesh out his character completely with DK64, where his persona full of contradictions and extremes shines the most. In a way it's a real shame that Rare didn't give Donkey Kong 64 the attention it really deserved. I would sacrifise Banjo-Tooie and Jetforce Gemini in a different universe as to make sure that DK64 became as a ambitious project as Banjo-Kazooie and the original DKC. They tried to emulate Mario 64's succes way too much with Banjo-Kazooie, while I feel that attention should've gone to Donkey Kong in the first place.

You know, it might be VERY WELL the reason why Star Fox Adventures had to have the Star Fox cast in them; Rare was making a game of their own yet again with their typical ambition to establish themselves, and Nintendo reviewed the project and wanted this ambition to mesh with their OWN creation which is Star Fox. Did Star Fox as a franchise profit from this in the end? YES ABSOLUTELY! Do I secretly wish Star Fox Adventures was Donkey Kong Adventures instead? Yes I do....... </3

Yes, even as a Rare fan am not 100% in argeement with all their decisions, but the way Nintendo treated them also wasn't very professional. Really, in the end, both developers suffered from their decision to part with each other. Which is why I think that today, the companies try to be on friendly terms. Lots of old Rare staff that worked on the legendary Nintendo games have left Rare. They are basically a ghost now, of a former legendary game development studio. And Nintendo is still searching for a way to handle one of their most ambitious projects (giving Donkey Kong a world and franchise of his own) just about 17 years later.

With all things said, I think it's very possible that Nintendo is trying to hire former Rare employees into their project to revive Donkey Kong Country in it's former glory. All things seem to be set in stone for this... I really hope to see this happening after losing out so many years of potential quality Donkey Kong games.