TM 023
Smash Cadet
Disclaimer. The text may be a bit weird in the organization, because I made this on mobile.
We all know the famous tipman, the weakest part of ganon's up air. It semi spikes the opponent, makes them slide off the edges of platforms/stages (putting them in tumble animation) and it even jab locks at any %. Today I'll make a guide about how to use it for punishing an opponent at the ledge.
There are two ways to make the opponent go to the ledge. They are:
These options can be punished by Ganon's tipman. In the first case, you need to run into the opponent and do a Reverse Aerial Rush Up air (RAR uair), to hit them and keep the momentum from your dash. RAR uair (or simply tipman in the second case) puts Ganondorf in the perfect position for a devastating punish. Here are the options. The punish varies by character weight, fall speed and the opponent's DI. Some characters are more vulnerable to ganon's strings than others. I put DI informations at the end of this thread.
IMPORTANT: if the opponent tries to jump right after RAR uair, they may get their double jump stolen by ANY aerial that Ganon does.
TLDR; (by best optimal punish):
-low %s: Gungnir Combo/dair
-mid%s: Tipman, nair/fair, DJ tipman to bair
-high %s: back air
Testing Tipman do DJ bair.
Tipman to bair stealing the opponent's jump.
Here we have Gleed being Gleed.
Here we have the most famous tipman combo.
I'll try to post more videos with other setups, like double tipman.
Conclusion:
That's it. These punishes could make Ganon even scarier when we talk about punishing rolls. Try these stuff and tell me what you think. And if you find some mistakes about writting, please tell me as well.
We all know the famous tipman, the weakest part of ganon's up air. It semi spikes the opponent, makes them slide off the edges of platforms/stages (putting them in tumble animation) and it even jab locks at any %. Today I'll make a guide about how to use it for punishing an opponent at the ledge.
There are two ways to make the opponent go to the ledge. They are:
- Flame choke roll read. The easiest, I believe.
- Some dash attacks (ZSS) and specials (Wizkick) hit Ganon's shield so they stop behind Ganon. At the ledge, you can punish them with tipman to get the followups I will discuss.
These options can be punished by Ganon's tipman. In the first case, you need to run into the opponent and do a Reverse Aerial Rush Up air (RAR uair), to hit them and keep the momentum from your dash. RAR uair (or simply tipman in the second case) puts Ganondorf in the perfect position for a devastating punish. Here are the options. The punish varies by character weight, fall speed and the opponent's DI. Some characters are more vulnerable to ganon's strings than others. I put DI informations at the end of this thread.
IMPORTANT: if the opponent tries to jump right after RAR uair, they may get their double jump stolen by ANY aerial that Ganon does.
☆ midweights (tested on Corrin)
low %s (0 - 30%)
mid %s (40 - 60%)
low %s (0 - 30%)- Dair (if the opponent doesn't jump, they'll get spiked. If they jump, they'll be hit by the sourspot sometimes, and maybe a stage spike occurs, although the sweetspot connects sometimes)
- Nair/Fair (may stage spike the opponent at +20%)
- Footstool to Down B (Gungnir Combo)
- I don't recommend going for another tipman until your opponent has at least 30%. The same goes for back air, save it for when your opponent has at least 60%. (It will be explained during this post).
mid %s (40 - 60%)- Tipman. If the opponent jumps after the first tipman, their jump will be stolen. A pretty easy and cool gimp if the opponent's recovery is bad. And tipman at these %s can be used in 3 different ways, depending if you delay your tipman or not (read below).
- Tipman (12% part) to DJ bair (only between 30 and 40% and if they jump after the first tipman). The second tipman to DJ bair is actually a true combo sometimes, and it kills, lmao. Use this against Pit/Dark Pit, since they have multiple jumps and won't be gimped by a simple tipman.
- Nair. It doesn't stage spikes at mid %s. Instead, it sends the opponent away from the stage. Good for racking up damage.
- Bair. This start killing at 60% (sweetspot).
- (Jump) aim to ledge,Down B. Not recommended, 'cause if you miss the spike part, you die.
- Bonus: Tipman (12% part) to DJ Side B. Same case as Tipman to DJ Bair, but second tipman to Flame Choke isn't true at all. It's just a stylish and disrespectful setup.
- Jumping dair is a good option if the opponent decides to jump.
- RAR tipman to FF bair is a true combo starting arround at 90% and it works until around 120%.
- RAR tipman to another tipman stops working arround 100%. After that, you'll need to delay the last tipman in order to hit.
☆fastfallers (tested on falcon)
low %s (0 - 30%)
mid %s (40 - 60 %)
High %s (+70%)
low %s (0 - 30%)- Any aerial but uair (dair recommended).
- aim to the ledge -> down b.
- Gungnir Combo (if the opposing character is compatible with it).
mid %s (40 - 60 %)- Same as before but now you can tipman. Delay it if you want. After tipman (6%), you can jump and dair/tipman/down b to style on the opponent and still recover (except from down b, of course).
- FF Bair starts killing at 60% (sweetspot)
- Nair puts the opponent in the perfect position to be ganoncided. Up B also works if you wait for the right moment.
- Jumping dair is a good option if the opponent decides to jump.
High %s (+70%)- RAR tipman to FF bair connects better now. Sometimes it is a true combo, sometimes it's a string. And it kills. Works until 100%.
- Tipman. I recommend that you delay it, to catch DJs more efficiently.
- past 110%, no followups are available. The only thing you can do after RAR tipman is wait until they jump and then DJ tipman.
★Lightweights (tested on Zelda)
low %s (0 - 30%)
mid %s (40 - 60%)
high %s (+70%)
low %s (0 - 30%)- Gungnir Combo
- any aerial (dair recommended)
- nair stage spikes starting at 10% (same goes for fair) and it stops arround 30%
- arround 30% you can delay a tipman to get their DJ, hit the 12% part and then hit a DJ bair/side b for a kill (not true)
mid %s (40 - 60%)- tipman them if their recovery is bad. If not, nair for more damage.
- FF bair starts killing at 60% (even sourspotted)
- Jumping dair is a good option if the opponent decides to jump.
high %s (+70%)- tipman is an okay option
- bair is the best option. Bair (don't FF) is true arround 90%
- nothing after 100% :/
Side notes/Important stuff :
:- between 80 and 120%, a ganoncide can catch the opponent's DJ, after RAR tipman. A stylish and hard read, I'd say.
- you can choose if nair will stage spike or not (on mid %s). If you hold away from the stage while doing nair, it will stage spike. If you don't move your analog stick, it won't stage spike.
- Starting at 30%, nair puts the opponent in the perfect position to be ganoncided, if stage spike doesn't occur.
- sometimes, tipman causes the opponents to trip. When this happens, sometimes they can instantly grab the ledge after being hit and escape from Ganon's follow-ups. But, if they don't grab the ledge, they receive more hitstun than a regular tipman, meaning that they are more likely to get hit by a follow-up (ANY follow-up is true in this case. Damn it, even aerial wizkick is true).
- It's good to remember that RAR tipmam won't work on some short characters (such as Lucas, Kirby, Jiggly, Diddy), but it works against some others, like the Mario Bros., Villager and Pac-Man, if you delay your RAR tipman.
- characters with a fast up b may escape the follow-ups.
- If nair/fair are in the stage spike %s, try to footstool the opponent if you get a stage spike.
DI: It only makes difference arround 30% and above it.
-DJ while mashing airdodge is the same as jumping. The airdodge takes time to come out, so the opponent get hit by the same stuff as just jumping.
-I haven't tested with rage effect.
-Green text: Good stuff.
-Red text: Bad stuff
-Blue text: No idea lol
Tested against Corrin.
low %s (0 - 30%, tested with 30%)
mid %s(30 - 60%, tested with 60%)
high %s(+60%, tested with 90%)
-DJ while mashing airdodge is the same as jumping. The airdodge takes time to come out, so the opponent get hit by the same stuff as just jumping.
-I haven't tested with rage effect.
-Green text: Good stuff.
-Red text: Bad stuff
-Blue text: No idea lol
Tested against Corrin.
low %s (0 - 30%, tested with 30%)- DI away from stage without jumping: Corrin escaped the second tipman and recovered. But he got hit by fast fall tipman and fast fall bair. Unfortunately, he still was able to return.
- DI away from stage mashing jump: Corrin got hit by tipman and got gimped.
- DI away from stage mashing airdodge: Corrin escaped from the second tipman and returned to the stage. However, he got hit by fast fall bair and fast fall tipman.
- DI to the stage without jumping: Corrin got hit by the strong part of tipman (12% part) and suffered a stage spike.
- DI to the stage mashing airdodge: He can escape from nair and still return, unless you fast fall, to frame trap him.
- DI to the stage mashing jump: Corrin got his jump stolen and took a tipman (12%) to DJ bair. He died.
mid %s(30 - 60%, tested with 60%)- DI away from stage without jumping: Corrin got hit by sourspot bair and died, due to his bad DI.
- DI away from stage mashing airdodge: Corrin got hit by sweetspot bair and died (the combo marker has shown a true combo sometimes). Also works if you fastfall bair, but you'll get the sourspot.
- DI away from the stage mashing jump: Corrin got hit. He died.
- DI to the stage without jumping: Bair hits and it kills, but Ganon needs to fastfall to hit Corrin.
- DI to the stage mashing jump: same as above.
- DI to the stage mashing airdodge: Although Corrin got hit by fastfall tipman and fastfall bair and died, the combo marker didn't show it as a true combo.
high %s(+60%, tested with 90%)- DI away from stage without jumping: Corrin dies from a bair (true combo), but Ganon needs to fastfall.
- DI away from stage mashing jump: Can't escape from fastfall bair.
- DI away from stage mashing airdodge: Can't escape from fastfall bair.
- DI to the stage without jumping: Corrin got hit by fastfall bair and died.
- DI to the stage mashing jump: Corrin got hit by fastfall bair and died.
- DI to the stage mashing airdodge: Corrin got hit by fastfall bair and died.
TLDR; (by best optimal punish):
-low %s: Gungnir Combo/dair
-mid%s: Tipman, nair/fair, DJ tipman to bair
-high %s: back air
I'll try to post more videos with other setups, like double tipman.
Conclusion:
That's it. These punishes could make Ganon even scarier when we talk about punishing rolls. Try these stuff and tell me what you think. And if you find some mistakes about writting, please tell me as well.
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