Just Smash II results

[MrWillof469]

A note to those who may use these results for rankings: As the staggered point system was proven to be flawed, I would recommend giving more weight to the outcomes of individual matchups rather than each player's final point ranking (except for those who finished in first, as their first place finishes were not ambiguous). Also, I apologize for not recording the individual players' names for doubles. Team names were only used for simplicity.

In the final results, points and payout are only listed for the first team/player if two or more are tied.

Doubles

Round 1

50% to Suicide 1, Bob & Jet 0
Green Apples 1, Dan & Arian 0
Get the Cheese Out 1, Bob Money Fan Club 0
Teppo 1, Team Zelda 0
You & You 1, Team Dark & Light 0
DC Jay - bye

Round 2

Green Apples 2, 50% to Suicide 0
Get the Cheese Out 2, Teppo 0
You & You 1, DC Jay 1
Dan & Arian 2, Bob & Jet 0
Bob Money Fan Club 2, Team Zelda 0
Team Dark & Light - bye

Round 3

Get the Cheese Out 3, Green Apples 0
You & You 3, Dan & Arian 0
Bob Money Fan Club 3, Team Dark & Light 0
DC Jay 3, 50% to Suicide 0
Teppo 2, Bob & Jet 1
Team Zelda - bye

Round 4

Get the Cheese Out 2, You & You 2
DC Jay 3, Bob Money Fan Club 1
Green Apples 4, Teppo 0
Dan & Arian 3, Team Zelda 1
Bob & Jet 2, Team Dark & Light 2
50% to Suicide - bye

Final results

1. Get the Cheese Out - 8 points - $76
1. DC Jay
3. Green Apples - 7 pts - $25
3. You & You
5. Bob Money Fan Club - 6 pts - $8
6. 50% to Suicide - 5 pts - $3
6. Dan & Arian
8. Team Zelda - 4 pts - $1
8. Team Dark & Light
10. Bob & Jet - 3 pts - $0
10. Teppo

Singles

Round 1

Joseph 1, DC 0
Arian 1, Jimmy 0
Zivilyan Bane 1, Shark 0
Hunter 1, Steve 0
Drex 1, Zero 0
Mr. PBody 1, Nezumi 0
David 1, Silva 0
MC Mike 1, Anthony 0
Frotaz 1, Jerry 0
Sheridan 1, Mr. Ganondorf 0
Slayer 1, Daniel 0
DieSuperFly 1, TDog 0

Round 2

Joseph 2, Arian 0
Zivilyan Bane 2, Hunter 0
Mr. PBody 2, Drex 0
MC Mike 2, David 0
Sheridan 2, Frotaz 0
DieSuperFly 2, Slayer 0
DC 2, Jimmy 0
Shark 1, Steve 1
Nezumi 2, Zero 0
Silva 2, Anthony 0
Mr. Ganondorf 2, Jerry 0
TDog 2, Daniel 0

Round 3

Zivilyan Bane 2, Joseph 1
Mr. PBody 3, MC Mike 0
DieSuperFly 3, Sheridan 0
DC 3, Nezumi 0
Mr. Ganondorf 3, Silva 0
TDog 3, Arian 0
Hunter 2, Shark 1
Steve 2, Drex 1
Frotaz 3, David 0
Slayer 3, Jimmy 0
Anthony 3, Zero 0
Daniel 3, Jerry 0

Round 4

DieSuperFly 4, Mr. PBody 0
DC 4, Zivilyan Bane 0
TDog 4, Mr. Ganondorf 0
Frotaz 4, Joseph 0
Steve 2, Slayer 2
MC Mike 4, Hunter 0
Sheridan 4, Anthony 0
Shark 2, Daniel 2
Drex 3, Nezumi 1
Arian 4, Silva 0
David 3, Jimmy 1
Zero 2, Jerry 2

Final Results

1. DieSuperFly - 10 points - $189
2. DC - 9 pts - $63
2. TDog
4. Frotaz - 8 pts - $21
5. MC Mike - 7 pts - $7
5. Sheridan
7. Mr. PBody - 6 pts - $2
7. Slayer
9. Arian - 5 pts - $1
9. Zivilyan Bane
9. Steve
9. Drex
9. Mr. Ganondorf
9. Daniel
15. Joseph - 4 pts - $0
15. Shark
15. David
18. Hunter - 3 pts - $0
18. Nezumi
18. Anthony
21. Zero - 2 pts - $0
21. Silva
21. Jerry
24. Jimmy - 1 pt - $0

 

[mario madman]

yay toast



srry cool i want to get in a tourny..

 

["D.C"]

yes i got second

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Ok so as a little side project I made up a list of results of what would have been if the tournament had used a traditional point system (1 point per match). These results use a standard swiss system tie brake method called Difficulty of the Opposition, meaning that for every person you played, you get tie brake points for the number of matches that person won. For example, since DSF won all 4 matches, he gives 4 tie brake points to everybody he played. Also, for sets that were 1-1 or 2-2, I was forced to give half point draws, which is how chess tournaments interpret these types of results. Otherwise, the person who won the most matches in the set were given the full point. For TBpoint ties, if Team A beat Team B, then Team A obviously gets the higher spot. In the case of multiple TBpoint ties, cumulative TBpoints are used, meaning the last person to lose or draw a match gets the higher spot. Here are the results....

Teams
1st-Get the cheese out---3.5 points---10 TBpoints
2nd-DCJay---3.5 points---7 TBpoints
3rd-You and You---3 points---10.5 TBpoints
4th-Green Apples---3 points---9.5 TBpoints
5th-Bob$FanClub---2 points---9.5 TBpoints
6th-Teppo1---2 points---8 TBpoints
7th-Dan and Arian---2 points---7.5 TBpoints
8th-50% to Suicide---2 points---7 TBpoints
9th-Team Dark and Light---1.5 points---5.5 TBpoints
10th-Team Zelda---1 point---6 TBpoints
11th-Bob and Jet---.5 points---7.5 TBpoints

Singles
1st-DSF---4 points---11.5 TB points
2nd-Mr. PBody---3 points---10 TB points
3rd-Sheridan---3 points---10 TB points
4th-TDog---3 points---9.5 TB points
5th-ZivilynBane---3 points---8 TB points
6th-MC Mike---3 points---8 TB points
7th-Frotaz---3 points---7.5 TB points
8th-DC---3 points---6 TB points
9th-Slayer---2.5 points---6.5 TB points
10th-EznJay---2 points---11 TB points
11th-Hunter---2 points---9 TB points
12th-Mr. Ganondorf---2 points---7.5 TB points
13th-Steve---2 points---7.5 TB points
14th-David---2 points---7 TB points
15th-Drex---2 points---6.5 TB points
16th-Arian---2 points---6 TB points
17th-Daniel---1.5 points---7 TB points
18th-Nezumi---1 point---8.5 TB points
19th-Shark---1 point---8.5 TB points
20th-Anthony---1 point---7.5 TB points
21st-Silva---1 point---7 TB points
22nd-Jerry---.5 points---7 TB points
23rd-Zero---.5 points---4.5 points
24th-Jimmy---0 points---9.5 TB points

As you can see, the results for this method are MUCH more accurate in terms of player skill. Now if the tournament had just done best of 3 for each round and maybe best of 5 for the final round, I think the results would be even more accurate, with DC probably getting a better spot, since IMO he was the 2nd or 3rd best player there (not sure how he does against PBody). If this were a chess tournament, with the results of each match being the same as what happened here, these would be the exact final standings.

Now I know there were people with complaints on the "swiss system", but I assure you the real problem was with the Staggered Point System used by the tournament director. Swiss System is still a very accurate means of deciding tournament standings for all participants, and is widely considered the best alternative means to a round robin. While double elimination is very accurate in deciding the top 3, Swiss System delves much deeper and can tell you who played better out of the 20th and 21st seed. Also a tournament with 24 participants will usually have 5 rounds to make sure there aren't so many ties for 2nd place.

And of course with every tournament, no results are going to be 100% accurate. DC gave up his 1st match to EznJay, and then went on to beat the 24th player Jimmy, who gave DC 0 tie brake points. This is why DC came in 8th place with the tie brake points. According to his performance and the performance of his opposition, he was the 8th ranking player there. Now was he the 8th best? No, he was more like 2nd or 3rd. It's all about performance though.

GJ to everybody that went, I loved this tournament and I love the Swiss System. See everybody next time!

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I think the staggered point system was an interesting method, but I think it would be most accurate if just every round after the 3rd was also 3 pts, and there were a minimum of about 6 or 7 rounds.

The trouble with the system used is that basically the earlier you played DSF, the more points you got, as the rest of your matches you were given weaker opponents in general, and the LATER you played DSF, which would traditionally indicate that you are a stronger player, you would end up with fewer points.

I think that Bane's ranking system is interesting. Things to note are to compare the results of say, MrPBody and TDog in each system.

I would also like to mention that due to the way the payout was setup, if two players who are friends meet, they can manipulate the payout. Frotaz and I initially decided to let whomever wins the first match to have the second in order to buff one person's "shares." Though upon reflection, it probably would have been best to split the matches, so we'd each have a good chance to end up 9-1. If we had met in the final round, only then would it have been better to give all the matches to one player (and split the money afterwards) as it would have given perhaps 3 times as much money between the 2 players.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Ssshhheeerrriidddaaannn!!!!

 

[Scamp]

Well, if someone could explain the staggered point system to me that'd be very helpful. Mostly why for the four-point matches were some split 3-1 and others 2-2. Did you actually play four matches?

Bane you could also do tiebreak points based on the people you beat/tie instead of just who you play. But I'm not doing the stats on that one.

 

[MrWillof469]

EDIT: For the sake of comparison, the payouts had we followed the traditional 60/30/10:
Teams: $132/66/22
Singles: $216/108/36

The staggered point system modifies (or breaks, in hindsight) the Swiss system in format. Each round lasted as many games as it's number (round 1 was 1 game, round 2 was 2, etc.). "Best of" matches are never played; it is simply a cumulative total of how many games you win. The intent of making everyone play more games against each new opponent as the rounds progress lies in the intent of Swiss: you play someone who more closely matches you in skill each successive round. Thus, you only had to play your randomly selected first round opponent one time, which may have offset any bad luck you experienced in having to play someone way better than you, and in your last match, against your supposed equal, you'd have to play four or five times. And I personally expected the final round to be really intense and exciting to watch since everyone would be so evenly matched. Sounds great in theory, right?

It worked for teams. The top teams got paid pretty well, and most of the rest of the field got money, too. The final round matches were pretty close. The top point match was great to watch. No complaints, no problems. Can't wait to start singles.

This tournament took place on a Sunday so it wouldn't conflict with the Sac biweeklies (as well as the TGE tourney until it was cancelled). Sunday puts a lot of strain on us time-wise; no one wants to stay very late, people have work and school the next day. Because of this, we really didn't have time for a 5th round, which would have helped sort the field further. I know people had suggestions such as a shortened 5th round or just a playoff with the top players, but I didn't want to break from the format (for consistency, not because I liked it).

A player like DSF, while taking advantage of the fact that going undefeated defines you as the winner and pays you a ton of money, caused a greater-than-intended imbalance. I think if we went five rounds it might have worked out, although it's possible that DSF's 5th round opponent would have been "victimized" in the same fashion as Mr. PBody. You cannot finish in second place under these rules if you play the top player in the final round; you will either get first or drop into third or further.

As such, the next tournament (if I did one) would follow a traditional Swiss format. Each round would be a best-of-3 match, and enough rounds would be played to allow for a complete sort (5 rounds if more than 16 people, 6 rounds if more than 32, following the 2^x rule for determining the number of Swiss rounds necessary). A playoff round would possibly follow that.