Just skimmed the 3.6 changelog, is bowser bad now?

[Candypants]

At work so haven't played the new bowser yet.

Seems like I'm gonna have to totally rework how I play to make this new iteration usable, let alone competitive...

 

[Jacob29]

Not sure yet...

I always noticed you upsmashed at ledge for kills sometimes and that is buffed for you.

He is probably overall better but a fair few playstyle changes will need to be made by all of us.

 

[Crulex Crystallite]

I played him for a while. He's great. We're gonna have to get used to losing some armor, but he's faster in all categories and his Ftilt, jabs and down tilts are more reliable now. Fortress hogging is easier. Back air is faster. Fair is SUPER STRONG OMFG. His up air is still good, but isn't as strong but that's fine because it was kind of polarizing.

The decrease in size changes the distance of his bowser bomb trajectory, it's a bit shorter but it's faster.

I would say overall he's in a waaaaay better spot simply because his hit box isn't "grab me and get a free 90%".

Also!!! I FORGOT. FLAME IS AMAZINGIGNIGNIGNIGN!!!!!! It's longer and waaaaay more reliable.

 

[Mr. Bones]

Also Dry Bowser now has a glowing shell. Best change yet.

 

[Jacob29]

I played him for a while. He's great. We're gonna have to get used to losing some armor, but he's faster in all categories and his Ftilt, jabs and down tilts are more reliable now. Fortress hogging is easier. Back air is faster. Fair is SUPER STRONG OMFG. His up air is still good, but isn't as strong but that's fine because it was kind of polarizing.

The decrease in size changes the distance of his bowser bomb trajectory, it's a bit shorter but it's faster.

I would say overall he's in a waaaaay better spot simply because his hit box isn't "grab me and get a free 90%".

Also!!! I FORGOT. FLAME IS AMAZINGIGNIGNIGNIGN!!!!!! It's longer and waaaaay more reliable.

What is the benefit in having a slightly longer flame?

most of the time its uses are for flaming an opponents shield on landing... not as a ranged harass tool.

Also I agree with us being in a better spot overall, but I am really struggling to see how we will deal with Marth and the Fast Fallers now that our range is smaller and we lost our old fastfaller combos.

 

[Crulex Crystallite]

What is the benefit in having a slightly longer flame?

most of the time its uses are for flaming an opponents shield on landing... not as a ranged harass tool.

Also I agree with us being in a better spot overall, but I am really struggling to see how we will deal with Marth and the Fast Fallers now that our range is smaller and we lost our old fastfaller combos.

Max and min flame speed and hit box size were increased as well as the distance it goes. It's use is no longer only relegated to flame cancel on someone's shield, you can use it at a decent distance to push someone to the ledge or off a platform while you're falling. There's more flexibility and it does have niche uses.

 

[meebius]

Extra flame length gives Bowser a better neutral

 

[Jacob29]

Extra flame length gives Bowser a better neutral

In what way?

 

[meebius]

In what way?

You put pressure on your opponent's shield from a distance and stop all jumpy approaches and dash dance camping
but dash attack will no longer be a central part of Bowser's neutral because of the nerfs it recieved

 

[Jacob29]

Stop all jump approaches what? Flame Cancelling isn't supposed to be used vs heavy jumpers it's for heavy spot dodgers.

 

[meebius]

Stop all jump approaches what? Flame Cancelling isn't supposed to be used vs heavy jumpers it's for heavy spot dodgers.

Flame cancel beats a lot of short hop approaches

 

[Crulex Crystallite]

I just tested a bunch, you can flame normally at a generous distance and push your opponent off ledges and platforms decently well, while keeping them at a decent distance. It has a 3 second window before it starts degrading now instead of degrading almost instantly, so you can get more mileage out of it for those times where they're caught in the flame.

It's definitely more useful than before.

 

[Kerfuffle]

I am loving the new Bowser. His grounded moves are a bit better, and I don't know, I just feel faster. My playstyle was always a little off track for 3.5 Bowser, but I feel it'll fit in a lot better with 3.6b. Using the charge armor on dsmash is amazing against super aggressive opponents and spacing is overall better with improved tilts. Gonna have to get used to this Koopa Klaw though. Comes out so much faster than it did, my timing is all off right now.

In other news, Sheik nerfs are going to make me actually able to play Bowser against her lol. Still not a good MU but at least it's not complete garbage anymore.

 

[Kerfuffle]

What is the benefit in having a slightly longer flame?

most of the time its uses are for flaming an opponents shield on landing... not as a ranged harass tool.

Also I agree with us being in a better spot overall, but I am really struggling to see how we will deal with Marth and the Fast Fallers now that our range is smaller and we lost our old fastfaller combos.

How so? I'm able to combo spacies just the same as I did. Lots of up throws and side-b, uptilts and upsmash thrown in for good measure.

As for Marth, I have always had a harder time dealing with him, but its looking even worse now. Gonna have to abuse that armor and the new tilts as much as possible this time around

 

[Jacob29]

How so? I'm able to combo spacies just the same as I did. Lots of up throws and side-b, uptilts and upsmash thrown in for good measure.

As for Marth, I have always had a harder time dealing with him, but its looking even worse now. Gonna have to abuse that armor and the new tilts as much as possible this time around

The old anti-FF combo was dash attack to like 3/4 uptilts.

That doesn't work at all anymore.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Meh, guess I never abused DA like I should've. Works out for me now though.

 

[cmart]

Wonder how well subbing an upsmash into old uptilt combos works

 

[Zigludo]

I wish cstick attack triggered tilt for dtilt and utilt. Then I could running dtilt a few frames faster, and running utilt reliably at ALL lol. Why on earth doesn't it work? I want to utilt > run > utilt some spacies, dammit

 

[meebius]

I wish cstick attack triggered tilt for dtilt and utilt. Then I could running dtilt a few frames faster, and running utilt reliably at ALL lol. Why on earth doesn't it work? I want to utilt > run > utilt some spacies, dammit

just wavedash lol

 

[Gayl0rd]

I feel like he was buffed. The extra speed will be immensely helpful.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

He has much more to work with in high level play, smaller body and better dash/movement alone warrants that.. Throw in the other buffs and we should consider ourselves lucky. Just gotta play smarter with him.

Just forget about the old, brain-dead gimmicks. They were fun while they lasted, but they were laughable at high level play. We have actual mileage now and Bowser is much more well rounded. He is better

 

[Zach777]

I agree with Deff, although I miss my massive Bowser lol. Dash attack was brainless in 3.5 and I agree with the PMDT trying to fix that. I do miss auto-winning matches against players who don't know how to fight Bowser, but the change was for the better.

I hate how side-b sends spacies to high for chaingrabbing with side-B. It was funny chaingrabbing scrubs with it. Love that its faster though.