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Just for fun: How would YOU change Samus' moveset?

Varia31

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Like the title says! As I have said in other threads, I am fine with Samus' moveset as is. It's remained mostly the same throughout every Smash game, so I'm very comfortable with it. That said, if you had the ability to change Samus' moveset, what would you do?

Here is my revision.
So the idea here is that Samus would play a bit more faithfully to the Metroid games, being something of an agile tank. She would have good jumps (a few jumps actually, much like Pit or Meta Knight, by using her Space Jump ability), a relatively fast run speed, and would be relatively heavy. Basically, a lot like she already is, but perhaps less floaty. The trade-off being that she has her Space Jump ability for her to perform more than one midair jump with. She would be focused on ranged attacks, with limited (but strong) melee attacks similar in strength to Ganondorf. This would again keep her more true to her games, where melee is more of a "get off me" tactic, or used to finish someone off. I think I would also give her slightly faster run speed.

With the exception of moves like Charge Shot and Super Missile, her projectiles wouldn't be too strong, but they would have good range that allows her to rack up damage at a moderate rate. Her agility would allow her to maintain distance or get out of sticky situations, and allow her to have good versatility for her weapons. Lastly, and this is just a side comment, but I would give her a voice. Since she's in her Varia Suit, it would of course be more modulated sounding, almost robotic or microphone-like like it was in Other M, but you can clearly tell it's still her in there. I would love Jennifer Hale (who voiced Samus in the Prime Trilogy) to return, but I wouldn't mind Alesia Glidewell (Brawl/SSB4) or even Jessia Martin (Other M). Changing her voice from someone other than Alesia Glidewell should of course carry over to ZSS.

ANYWAYS.

Now... onto her moveset.

Idle poses
-Standing: Samus is turned to the side more with her head turning towards the enemy. Her cannon is raised into the air, with one hand bracing it. Basically, this:
-Idling 1: Samus stands in a more relaxed position and does random calibrations on her cannon, similar to how ZSS tinkers with her Paralyzer pistol.
-Idling 2: Samus quickly points her cannon in front of her, aiming and looking around with short, sudden movements, as if alert. After a moment of doing this, she'll slowly lower her weapon and return to her standing position.

Taunts
-Up Taunt: The classic Melee taunt returns! This time, however, she will say "You'll have to do better than that".
-Side Taunt: Samus dusts off her cannon in an un-amused manner while uttering a "Hmph..." sound.
-Down Taunt: Same as Brawl/SSB4. She aims both behind her and in front of her, but now asks "... Next?"

Dodges
-Roll: Her "Sense Move" from Metroid Other M. Nice and quick!
-Spot dodge: Unchanged from previous Smash games.

A Button Attacks - Ground
-Neutral A: A single, quick, hardy punch. Similar to Ganondorf's. Can knock people down at low percentages, and cause moderate launching at higher percentages.
-Up Tilt: Same as previous Smash games.
-Foward Tilt: A short-range Wave Beam shot. Causes a very brief stun and pushes the enemy away. Can also go through walls or platforms, just like the Metroid games.
-Down Tilt: Samus performs a sweeping trip move like she used to use in Smash 64. Has decent knockback power that sends opponents slightly away but mainly knocks them up, much like her current down-tilt does.
-Dash Attack: Basically what she has already, only stronger and causes her to briefly spark, glow, and create minor afterimages as if using a brief Speed Booster burst. Upward diagonal knockback that throws the enemy backwards into the direction Samus came from. Can kill at very high percentages.

A Button Attacks - Air
-Neutral Air: Screw Attack. Samus of course rotates many times, but the attack only hits once. Very strong, and can spike diagonally at higher percentages, while at lower percentages it'll still cause downward knockback that would only prove to be a minor set-back most of the time.
-Up Air: I like the drill kick from all the Smash games to date. Keep it the same as SSB4, though perhaps add a slight wind-box? I dunno.
-Forward Air: The Project M Forward Air. For those not familiar, she encases her cannon with Ice Beam effects and clubs the enemy with it. Quick and strong single hit move. Very satisfying to land (in my book, an excellent "get the heck off my stage" attack).
-Down Air: Same as it's always been, but with the speed being how it was in Melee, along with the strength and hitboxes it had back then.

Special Moves - Ground
-Neutral B: Power Beam/Charge Beam. It basically works almost exactly like Falco's laser, just not electric-y. It travels fast but has a slow firing rate. Hold the button down to charge. You can move around and even do a single jump while charging. Release the button prematurely to fire stronger shots that are stronger based on how long you hold the button down. If you let it charge all the way, however, you can let go of the button and Samus will keep the charge ready for you to use at any given time, just like it has been in every Smash game to date. Visually, though, you will see the surging energy ball and quietly hear the charge sounds still going as long as she still has it on stand-by. Power-wise, it would be the same as it is in SSB4.
-Up B: Screw Attack. Exactly the same as the Screw Rush custom from SSB4, save for being a single hit like my new Nair, and like that Nair, is very strong. However, it launches forward rather than diagonally downwards.
-Side B: Homing Missile/Super Missile. Functions exactly how it always has, but the homing missile travels slow and has great turning like the Mii Gunner's homing missile. The Super Missile, however, functions just like it did in Melee. That means it briefly starts a bit slower but then picks up fast acceleration quickly, and the best part? It has KO power again!
-Down B: Boost Ball+Bomb Combo. Samus quickly turns into her Morph Ball mode to perform a short range boost attack that trips the opponent forward. While doing this, she also lays a bomb for the enemy to fall into, which detonates on contact. This special moves works differently in the air, though. More on that in a moment.

Special Moves - Air
-Neutral B: Functionally the same, just that the Power Beam has a better firing rate in the air, much like Falco. And YES, YOU CAN CHARGE WHILE AIRBORNE.
-Up B: Also the same, but just like the Screw Rush custom, the Screw Attack will fly at a bit of a different angle.
-Side B: Absolutely no difference, just that Samus is of course airborne.
-Down B: C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER! Here is where the specials differ. Instead of boosting while airborne, Samus will drop Bombs that stay motionless in the air and are unaffected by gravity, creating nice little obstacles that are of course timed, but will detonate on contact. Samus will still bounce up a bit when dropping a Bomb. However, as Smash seems to like incorporating variations based on button pressure as of late (I'm looking at you, Ryu), the Bombs will revert to their classic gravity-affected state and fall if you hold down the button for a moment. This way Samus can still perform her (actually reliable) Bomb-jumps from Melee!

Smash Attacks
-Up Smash: Forget trying to fix "Cover Fire", let's try something new! I present to you, the Dark Burst! Samus charges and then fires, but, the interesting part is she doesn't shoot it upward, but rather, she fires it right at her own feet. Since she's immune to her own attack in the game where this weapon originates from (Metroid Prime 2: Echoes), she's perfectly fine! What it does is engulf her in the blast, but anyone within an inch of it will get sucked into oblivion, get some nice damage racked up, and then get lauched out of it before the rift closes, sending them upwards. It only covers Samus, so the radius isn't that big, and you have to be practically in someone's face for it to land, but the payoff is magnificent. The launch power is incredible! So expect to make some killer KOs with this one.
-Forward Smash: Remember the windmill kick she uses in Other M? Yeah. That awesome move. She can charge it up like any Smash and then deliver a spinning kick at an alarmingly fast speed, and it launches straight forward and ever-so-slightly diagonally upward with some impressive strength. KO potential is very high with this one.
-Down Smash: Five Bomb Drop. It works like it does in Super Metroid to a degree. Visually, you'll see Samus instantly do an Accel-Charge on her cannon and then immediately switch to Morph Ball mode, where she will launch five Bombs around her (one right below her, and then two on both sides of her). They fall quick and have a short-fuse, which is sped up by enemy proximity, much like how the Bombs work in SSB4, only faster. The move has rather low KO power, but if you can manage to get the opponent to hit all five bombs, then it'll be quite strong! You would basically need to be centered on the poor sap to do this. Launches diagonally upwards.

Throws
-Grab: Samus launches her Grapple Beam, like always. It comes out faster and retracts a heck of a lot faster, though. Once captured, though, Samus will switch to holding the enemy with her left hand. You'll see why...
-Pummel: A toss-up for me between either smacking the enemy with her cannon or kneeing them to death with her knee spike.
-Up Throw: Samus had a counter-attack in Other M against the Griptians (those Armadillo things) where she launches them high into the air by making like a piston and kicking them straight up. Basically that, just that she gently tosses the enemy slightly above her before curling into position to deliver the kick. Very strong.
-Forward Throw: Another toss-up. I think she could just deliver a hardy left hook similar to Fox's Forward Throw, perform the Lethal Strike she uses against the Ghalmanian (the one where she drags the enemy to the floor and then blasts them point blank in the face), or just stick with her classic Smash one.
-Back Throw: In Other M, Samus could spin around a Ki-Hunter one handed and hurl it across a rather long hallway with enough strength to go splat. Yeah, she would use that. While spinning, it can swat other enemies around that are close (like Mario's back throw). Is a KILL THROW at about 150%, but as you might imagine, can be done earlier if you're at the edge of Final Destination or what have you.
-Down Throw: Griptian Lethal Strike from Other M. Samus will push the enemy to the ground, slam her foot down on top of them to pin them down, charge up, and then blast them, sending them upwards diagonally like it does in SSB4.

Misc. Abilities
-Wall Jump: It ain't Samus if she can't walljump.
-Space Jump: Similar to Pit, Meta Knight, etc. Has more than one midair jump. This is to compensate for her Screw Attack being more horizontal now, as well as her being less floaty.
-Zair: Air grapple beam attack/ledge tether. It functions like it does in Brawl again when used to attack, and has the most damage and power at the tip.
-Morph Ball Crawl: Just like Project M! Comes complete with flashy glow-y effects for whenever she transforms. No Boost Ball attack though, since that's already taken by her ground-based Down B.

Final Smash
Three ideas here.
-Power Bomb: Samus quickly changes to Morph Ball mode, charges up a Power Bomb, then detonates it! It covers about 3/4 of Final Destination, so it's a considerable radius. It's like a Smart Bomb in that it racks up burn damage and then launches foes, but it happens a lot quicker, and of course, has way more launch power. These are miniature nukes we're talking about here! Avoid it by just staying as far away from Samus as possible.
-Gunship Assault: Straight from Metroid Prime 3, Samus commands her Gunship to perform a carpet-bomb run across the stage. Lots of missiles and explosions like a freakin' Michael Bay film. Can be avoided with adequate cover or just by carefully but quickly timing a jump around said missile that gets close to you.
-Hyper Mode: Samus summons her PED Suit tech and goes all Phazon Madness mode. This is a timed transformation type FS, so she has free roam of the stage. She uses her Phazon Hyper Beam to rack up damage and slow enemies down by doing so, then can deliver killing blows with amazingly fast and painful Phazon Hyper Missiles! And true to her game, Samus is absolutely invincible during this FS. She also gets a buff to her overall mobility. "How do I avoid this one?!" Run like heck.

Extras
-Costume DLC: Metroid Prime Trilogy Varia Suit (with alternate Phazon Suit colors)
-Costume DLC: Classic Style Varia Suit and Gravity Suit (i.e. Super Metroid)
-Costume DLC: Fusion Suit and Omega Fusion Suit
-Costume DLC: NES Style Power Suit and Varia Suit

So yeah, those are all of my ideas! It's just my thoughts on what I would do if I could give Samus an overhaul. :samus:

Alright everyone, have some ideas you'd like to share? :)
 
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samosa

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I would give the option to choose to angle your missiles and charge shot in 8 directions, kinda like megamans metal blade.
 

Conn1496

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I don't think I'd change a whole lot outside her specials, honestly. Maybe just make her moves more range based than they currently are, more along the lines of Mega Man than her current incarnation since I think it kind of under-represents her as a whole. I don't think her Charge Shot is nearly anywhere as iconic as some of her other tools either, most notably the Ice Beam, which has had no representation in Smash to date.

That being said, I'd love to see them get both into Smash somehow, potentially changing her Neutral-B and Side-B completely so her Neutral-B can shoot charged versions of specialised beams (Or missiles), with Side-B simply using a short time to change the equipped canon between Power (The current basic beam.), Wave, and Ice beams (As those are arguably the most easily recognisable beams.) and Missiles, with a new "Mega Man"-esque jab (Akin to her short beam from the original Metroid.) affected by her current beam, and more explosive moves (Things like D-tilt, U-smash, etc.) probably also being affected by the current equipped beam.

I'd also like to see her Down-B actually keep her in Morph Ball mode (Likely giving her faster movement. (Spider Ball optional, though it would be awesome.)), or at the very least not make her do the little weird hop she does, which, I know, would be very unpopular considering it helps her recover, but I'd also propose her Up-B being more akin to a regular jump. Heck, in most Metroid games, Samus has to be moving before her jump in order to activate Screw Attack, so the fact she can go directly up at all with it seems kind of alien to me as a design idea. It should design-wise just have waaay more horizontal movement IMO.

That being said, I don't think she should have the ability to wall jump, and I think her Z-Air, while cool as a recovery, should do more than tickle opponents in the air, considering that it's - well, it's the grapple Beam for a reason.

I'm probably asking too much, or for too drastic of changes, but I'd really like Samus to feel more like she does in her games, have more moves that are call-backs to the series (That being said, she already has a notable amount, I just feel that it's a little lacking, especially now that Smash 4 has rolled around and some very intricately designed characters have been added to the roster.).
 

Varia31

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Conn1496 Conn1496
May I ask why you don't think Samus should have a walljump? It is a staple technique that she's had throughout almost the entire series. Just curious. :)

I do agree that the Grapple Beam should be more than just a poke. In Super Metroid you can kill things with it!
 
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Critzilean

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Ok, here we go. I'll start with things that I think could actually happen in a patch:
  • Faster Grab
  • Buff to all Smash attacks, U-Smash size and linking, F-Smash sweetspot size, and D-Smash knockback
  • Make the Jabs link
  • Give F-Tilt the same damage no matter which part of the leg hits
  • D-Tilt can KO around 150%-160%
  • U-Tilt spikes aerial opponents like C. Falcon
  • Dash Attack has more active hitboxes so you don't slide through people at the start anymore
  • Can charge CS in the air
  • Super Missiles can KO, Homing Missiles have better homing, and less lag on both missile types
  • Bombs explode on contact with enemies
  • Screw Attack has frames of invincibility on startup so it doesn't clank anymore
Now, here's unrealistic things that would be cool:
  • Falls faster and maybe slight increase to air and ground mobility
  • Why does she not have a crawl? It seems like common sense to make morph ball her crawl (but maybe that's just me)
  • Dodge Rolls are now simple hops forwards and backwards
  • D-Smash is basically Mii Gunner's
  • Jab is basically Mii Gunner's
  • D-Tilt is now the Morph Ball boost (works like Cloud/Megaman D-Tilt)
  • Good ole' sex kick as her N-Air again
  • Let her charge Down B for Power Bomb (not nearly as strong as they are in game, of course)

I might edit this if I think of more stuff :p
 
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Conn1496

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Conn1496 Conn1496
May I ask why you don't think Samus should have a walljump? It is a staple technique that she's had throughout almost the entire series. Just curious. :)

I do agree that the Grapple Beam should be more than just a poke. In Super Metroid you can kill things with it!
As far as I've been aware, she's never really utilised the wall jump as a reccuring staple of Metroid's gameplay. It's just kind of a thing that comes up from time to time. I could be incredibly wrong about this, but I find her other movement options (Mostly things from Morph Ball.) far more iconic... That being said, I might have just glazed over the games where Samus could clearly wall-jump (I've played a weirdly select handful of Metroid games and she's never been able to wall-jump intentionally in a single one.). -if that's the case, well, my bad. lol
 

Xygonn

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As far as I've been aware, she's never really utilised the wall jump as a reccuring staple of Metroid's gameplay. It's just kind of a thing that comes up from time to time. I could be incredibly wrong about this, but I find her other movement options (Mostly things from Morph Ball.) far more iconic... That being said, I might have just glazed over the games where Samus could clearly wall-jump (I've played a weirdly select handful of Metroid games and she's never been able to wall-jump intentionally in a single one.). -if that's the case, well, my bad. lol
In super metroid you could climb up one wall with wall jumps (but you could also bomb jump to infinity).
 

Garo

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After playing Other M when it came out I thought Samus should take few things from it to the next Smash:

- Make her forward and back rolls similar to the "Sense Move". Morph Ball would become her crawl.
- Make her throws similar to the Lethal Strikes and Overblasts. For example, forward throw could be the headlock -> blast to the face combo and back throw the one where she spins the enemy by their leg (or tail?) over her head and then chucks them away.

Otherwise I'm pretty happy with her moveset. If we're talking about just general adjustments though, there's a few things I'd like to see done:

- Either give F-tilt same damage and knockback throughout (about that of the current sweetspot) or power up the sourspot and sweetspot separately.
- Make F-smash's sweetspot bigger.
- Give D-smash stronger knockback and less endlag.
- Have dash attack's hitbox come out earlier or whatever it takes to make it not look like you just dash through the enemy without hitting them.
- Give grab less endlag.
 

Shuckle_SSB

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-Jab 1 has a tipper like DK that sucks them in to combo into Jab 2
-Dtilt has KBG reduced. So it can combo at low percents, and kill at high percents.
-Ftilt is the same throughout the hitbox
-Dsmash is weaker and has less active frames (less punishable)
-Fsmash tipper strength increased KB
-Usmash can suck in foes like Marth/Lucina Usmash
-Missile cancelling
-Old Nair
-Two Bairs out of a SH
-Zair does 5% in total
-Roll animations from her dodge mechanic in Other M
-Uthrow kills (does what she does to finish foes off in Other M)
-Less landing lag on Bair (safer is spaced)
 

Shuckle_SSB

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Or for her Jab she could have her punch punch boom from her victory taunts in smash 4. Kinda like Mii Gunner.
 

Mason Brown

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Personally, I'd like Samus to be more the way she was pre-release. Like it says in this -> https://youtu.be/nCYCj3et36U Anyway, I think that pretty much entails things like longer hitstun on a few things like up-tilt, and all around greater combo potential. I agree with most other people in the areas of d-smash's weakness and endlag as well. Normal missles should have less frames till FAF, and supers should kill maybe just a little. F-smash sweet spot always annoyed me; make it bigger. Add or even just move some invincibility or intangibility frames on up-b, cause I'm sick of it clanking with jabs and stuff all the time. Linking jabs, revised hurtboxes in animations like up-tilt, b-air, and f-tilt. Less endlag on grab for goodness sake. Dash attack should come out a little earlier. Kill throw maybe? Roll shouldn't take a year. Up-smash and Up-b should link better. Did I miss anything?

I realize that not ALL these changes would be made, but they are all individual possibilities. I just wish I could've played Samus in her prime. (sneaky Metroid pun is sneaky)
 

White_Pointer

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Ok, here we go. I'll start with things that I think could actually happen in a patch:
  • Buff to all Smash attacks, U-Smash size and linking, F-Smash size and sourspot knockback, D-Smash knockback and (maybe) speed.
  • Make the Jabs link
  • Super Missiles can KO again and less lag on all variations of Side-B
  • D-Tilt can KO again
  • U-Tilt spikes aerial opponents like C. Falcon
  • Dash Attack has more active hitboxes so you don't slide through people anymore
  • Give F-Tilt only a sweetspot and sourspot, rather than like 3 different hitboxes
  • Can charge CS in the air
- Buff to smash attacks - yes - Up smash needs a larger area so it doesn't whiff completely, and needs to be fixed *properly* so you can't fall out of it. Fsmash is already pretty good, I guess it could use a larger sweet spot hitbox on it. Dsmash just needs a knockback increase so it can actually KO before 250%.
- Yes, Jabs need to link, it's such a stupid design decision that they don't.
- I dunno if super missiles need to KO necessarily, she's already got one kill projectile, but they do need some more utility. Homing missiles definitely need to actually be homing missiles and not just something that casually moves in the general direction of the target.
- Dtilt can KO already, albeit at high percents.
- Utilt I'm actually pretty happy with, it doesn't spike aerial opponents but it's still a kill option off the side and I like it that way. I get a surprising number of kills from it. The only thing I don't like about utilt is that it has a different effect against grounded and aerial opponents and that seems silly.
- Dash attack is fine honestly, you just need to learn the timing to connect with the active frames. It's not supposed to be like Falcon's dash attack.
- The sour spots on Ftilt should just be removed completely if you ask me.
- Yes please, charge shot chargable in the air.

My personal belief though is that if her grab was buffed to give it the Lucas treatment, and she was given a kill throw or a kill confirm off a throw (even if it was a 50/50) she'd immediately be sooo much better and a much more viable character. Anything on top of that would be a bonus.

As a fantasy wish, I'd kinda like it if the super missile could be toggled between a standard regular missile for damage, or an ice missile that doesn't really do damage but temporarily freezes opponents instead. That would be pretty sick.
 
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VidyaJames

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Just give us back the old Nair. There's nothing particularly bad about Samus's smash 4 Nair, but the sex kick from previous entries was just so much better and more useful.

If I was getting greedy, I'd ask for her messed up hitboxes to get fixed and to let us charge CS in midair.
 

Flux0r

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Replace that pitiful excuse of a N-Air with the more meaty and superior Melee N-Air.

Also Missile Canceling. These changes alone could give her a shot at mid-tier.
 

zblaqk

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Just give us back the old Nair. There's nothing particularly bad about Samus's smash 4 Nair, but the sex kick from previous entries was just so much better and more useful.

If I was getting greedy, I'd ask for her messed up hitboxes to get fixed and to let us charge CS in midair.
"Greedy"
 

GerbilCrab475

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Give Samus a real dodge. Still no crawl but Dowm B would be turned into Morphball mode. Press A to drop a bomb and Press be to revert.
 

Clock Tower Prison

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Misc. Abilities
-Morph Ball Crawl: Just like Project M! Comes complete with flashy glow-y effects for whenever she transforms. No Boost Ball attack though, since that's already taken by her ground-based Down B.
I find it sad that this is something that should be asked for instead of just already be in the game but whatever I'm no game designer. Great post all around I feel that everyone could really use a little overhaul and what you suggested especially for the throws sounded amazing. Love the whole ground stomp to point blank face shot.
 

Metallinatus

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I find it sad that this is something that should be asked for instead of just already be in the game but whatever I'm no game designer.
It was understandable that they implemented the Morph Ball as her roll in the 64 as it was a much more limited system and the game didn't even have crawling.... and it's not Samus without Morph Ball, so it had to be done.
But now they keep it just as a legacy move, of course.
 

GerbilCrab475

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It was understandable that they implemented the Morph Ball as her roll in the 64 as it was a much more limited system and the game didn't even have crawling.... and it's not Samus without Morph Ball, so it had to be done.
But now they keep it just as a legacy move, of course.
Unfortunately that's how most characters go. The only exception is Bowser and Mario (for one move).
 

The Butt Rumbler

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All I really want is for super missiles to be able to kill. Maybe starting at like 150-160%? Morph ball crawl would be fantastic but that's not gonna happen.
 
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Uffe

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Screw Attack - Has a pull-in property, keeping opponents from being able to fall out, and then loses the pull-in property on the final hit so that it still kills.
Charge Shot - Cuts through any form or projectile.
Homing Missile - Lesser start up lag.
Super Missile - Lesser start up lag and kills like Charge Shot.
Bombs - Blows up when opponents touch it like in Melee. Of course, that might not make it possible for shield breaks.

Jab - Actually combos.
U-tilt - Spikes like Falcon's.
D-tilt - Kills again like in Brawl.

U-Smash - Should have a wider hitbox, being able to still get smaller characters. Also, make it inescapable like Link's u-smash.

Zair - Does multihits all the way through like Lucas' PK Thunder.

Grab - Should be as fast as Link's grab, if not faster, seeing how her technology is more advanced than his.
B-throw - Kills at high percent. She lifted that lava fish out with her Grapple Beam in Other M. I don't understand why she has no kill throw.
D-throw - It's cool the way it is, but imagine if she jumped onto the opponent's head and blasted a beam like in Other M? It should also have combo potential like Ness' d-throw.
 

Crystanium

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Just give us back the old Nair. There's nothing particularly bad about Samus's smash 4 Nair, but the sex kick from previous entries was just so much better and more useful.

If I was getting greedy, I'd ask for her messed up hitboxes to get fixed and to let us charge CS in midair.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. N-air originally wasn't so good, but with it buffed, I prefer it over the original. It's a two-hit attack and can be used safely for off-stage kills. Anyway.

  • Jab with stun.
  • Grapple beam retraction should be faster to prevent punishment.
  • At least one throw should be able to kill. Preferably back throw. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nsn5jiN9F-k&t=03m45s)
  • Missile cancel.
  • Charge beam should eat most projectiles. If it can destroy a super missile, it shouldn't be stopped by an archaic bomb.
  • Switch Zamus' speed with Samus'. Sure, Samus is faster in Sm4sh, but I'm tired of Samus being weaker when it should be the opposite.
  • Samus should be able to run while shooting beams, or even charging.
  • Rolling should be crawling. I like Garo's sense move idea.
  • And for an entirely different move set, perhaps Samus will be able to counter her opponents in the next Smash game.
 

The Hero Hartmut

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An old thread, perhaps, but this is a topic that I've recently given some thought. I've considered how to make Samus truer to her home series, given that her standard attacks in Smash don't really represent Metroid all that well. Her primary methods of attack in the Metroid games generally revolve around her Arm Cannon, rather than punches and kicks like in Smash; I've seen the term 'kung fu robot' used to describe her Smash portrayal. As such, I think I've come up with a way to shake her up mechanically, which I'd describe as being a sort of mix between Mega Man, Robin and Cloud, with just a pinch of Snake. Any moves not mentioned below would remain as they are.
  • Neutral B is changed to a charging move more akin to Cloud's Down B or Robin's Neutral B. This move has three levels of charge beyond its base status (totalling four levels), each of which affecting the properties of several of Samus' other moves; most primarily her standard attack, forward tilt, up tile and Nair. This enables mid-air charging.
  • Her standard attack, forward tilt and Nair have her fire her Arm Cannon, with movement being possible mid-shot (much like the Mega Buster). The properties of these attacks are empowered based on the current charge level from her Neutral B, and repeated use of these attacks gradually brings the charge level down (with each level granting a few shots before downgrading to the preceding level).
    • At base level charge, these shots act like uncharged shots from her current Neutral B, treated as the standard Power Beam (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Power_Beam). She can shoot up to three at a time.
    • On the first-level charge, the properties of the Long Beam (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Long_Beam) and Ice Beam (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Ice_Beam) are added to her shots, increasing their range by a significant margin and raising their damage output slightly (knockback is unaffected). Each shot also has a small chance of freezing opponents hit by them.
    • On the second-level charge, the properties of the Spazer Beam (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Spazer_Beam) and Wave Beam (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Wave_Beam) are added. The hitbox and potential damage output of each shot is made much larger, since three vertically parallel shots are fired with each attack with the Spazer Beam property in effect. Shots on this level also phase through opponents and obstacles (including walls, Duck Hunt's can, and Luma), making them useful for racking up damage, though at the cost of any knockback. Long Beam and Ice Beam effects are retained.
    • At full charge, the Wave Beam effect is removed, and replaced with the Plasma Beam (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam), raising damage output and dramatically increasing potential knockback compared to the base/first-level charge (though shots no longer phase through opponents or obstacles). Long Beam, Ice Beam and Spazer Beam effects are retained.
  • Her up tilt is changed from the axe kick to have her shoot beams from her Arm Cannon upwards at a 45° angle. The properties of this attack would be changed in the same fashion as her standard attack, forward tilt and Nair, as above.
  • When using Down B with any level of charge above base, a cluster of bombs are laid (http://deanyd.net/sm/index.php?title=Bomb_Spread) at the cost of one level of charge. Bombs dropped this way don't cause Samus to bounce, and so can't be used to influence fall speed or aerial mobility.
  • When using Up B with nothing less than a full level of charge, the charge is reset to base to add a Space Jump (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Jump) property to the Screw Attack, allowing for two extra jumps after its initial use while retaining an active hitbox. Freefall only occurs after the last jump is used; other actions that aren't Up B can be used out of the Screw Attack so long as at least one jump remains, though doing so cancels the Space Jump (so, for instance, you can Up B -> jump -> Zair to tether-grab the ledge for a deep offstage recovery). The knockback dealt from the apex of each jump is reduced with each additional jump taken; this is intended to better benefit overall recovery than offence.
  • Down Smash is replaced with the setting of a Power Bomb (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Power_Bomb) on the ground, functioning in a similar fashion to Snake's landmines. This detonates either after a set time period, or on impact by an opponent or projectile. Not affected by charge level.
Haven't decided if Missile/Super Missile properties should change based on charge level; maybe something to do with the Diffusion Missiles from Fusion (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Diffusion_Missile), or Prime 2's Seeker Missiles (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Seeker_Missile)?

The basic idea behind this is to give her more potential for dealing damage from a distance, just like in her home series. What do you reckon?
 
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Varia31

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T The Hero Hartmut
Long time since I've been on here.
Yeah, I love your ideas! I think it would be a refreshing change to see Samus play more like she actually does in Metroid. Mega Man plays a lot like he does in his games, so I wish the same respect was given to Samus' source material. I've said this before, but I do like how she plays now, but again, it would be nice to see some changes that make her represent her own game better, as Metroid's combat is all about firepower (with minimal melee, counting Other M).
 

Scarlet Jile

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Incidentally, some of these changes mentioned here are already live in a balance patch project, which you can find in my signature. But it was a good read.
 

Varia31

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So after the announcement of "Metroid: Samus Returns" for 3DS, I suddenly wanna see Samus have the melee counter that she has in that game. I know, I know, "we have enough counters already," but it's just a fun thought. Imagine someone trying to get past her missiles, then closes in on her and- *counters* "No." *Charge Shots stunned enemy*
C'mon, it would be funny. 'Least I think it would... lol
 

Dancer

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Nov 13, 2017
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I like her as she is in most respects. The sex kick being gone is unfortunate but the new nair is cool and hits hard. It's not as safe though.
That's my only real gripe with her. In exchange for not having a good roll or ground grab, I'd like her to be safer, and harder to approach in the air. Think like how Mario can just do stuff in the air against shields and can be mostly safe, and not so much like how Bayo is still really threatening in the air.
Mario's aerial safety would make her shield damage all the more effective. Bayo pressure with Samus's shield damage would probably be pretty obnoxious.
That could just mean earlier autocanceling for some of her nair, or the return of the sex kick (or that screw attack idea).
I guess... what I'm looking for here is a better nair. Dair and u-air are totally fine Dair in particular, is my jam. Fair is the YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD JUMP attack that beats the counter play to her dash attack, which is You Thought You Could Hit a Button: The Game of The Movie.

Zair kinda does what I want missles to do, but missles aren't so great. Missle autocanceling coming back would be awesome, but I get that they don't want the Smash 4 to have the Melee super danks. It's just....so punishable, and hardly ever nets much. Not sure what to ask for here. She can't have fast acting highly damaging death missles like in her games. At least, not while having the up close power that she does.
Maybe...missle could be on a timer. Power missle recharges once every 10 seconds, and has significantly reduced startup and end lag.
Only thing I can think of.

Bombs having slightly bigger hitboxes would be neat. And not getting stuck in a few days of lag when she walks into the explosion would be great. I want to keep the bomb jumps, I'd just like to be able to move out of the lag they induce when they explode near you.
Shield breaks for days.

Her tilts feel kinda samey to me. U-tilt is high startup low end lag, anti air. Forward tilt is a kinda quick and safe poke you can use on the move, D-tilt is an Oos punish/combo/2 frame tool. They have different trajectory and timing and uses and whatnot, but they're all....long range, single hits that can be made unsafe if you get up in her face.
I mean they're fine. They're good. But I'd like a weak, short, quick move.
One that's safe on hit at 0%. *coughjab1
Jab 2 is...fine, I guess. It would be A LOT more fine if Jab 1 was better outside of high percents. Jab 2 is kinda anti-airy.

It's kinda odd that she can't charge in the air, with her beam being so important. And she's like...the big iconic Nintendo projectile character. She shoots the things. She's really good at it. Especially in the air, whilst she does any number of front flips and wall jumps. She can charge in the air AND shoot quickly in her games. I get her not being able to shoot fast, because they gave that scene to Fox, Falco, and now Megaman. Games about shooting fast. But not being able to charge in the air is really unfortunate. Especially in this game where it's so important to her, and so limiting to have to use it on the ground when no other characters does.
It would be neat if she could shoot it downward like how Megaman can direct his metal blade anywhere. It would help a lot with her landing. It could be similar to how Cloud's limit helps him recover.
Plus, she can shoot anywhere irrespective of her movement in her games too. Unlike the other characters.

Taunt game could use some serious buffs.
I think the frame data speaks for itself.

Samus


Falcon



This is the primary use for up smash, actually.
 

Fatality32

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Nov 16, 2018
Messages
1
I dont know, in my opinion, there could be a lot of moves that could suit her well, especially in smash. Attacks like Freeze missile, for example you could mantain the button pressed and like ryu make a diferent action depending on the time pressed. for example tap-Missile, 1s press-Super Missile, 2s press- Ice Missile (ice stuns for 1.5 s, and does less damage). replace her roll completely and replace it with the sense move from other M. And maybe make a completely new jab and add a little kill power to her down smash, while also fixing her dash attack (as it is kinda messed up in ultimate).
 
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