Junior and the Koopalings Game Play Discussion

[NidoMay]

So this is more an odd question but:
Whats everyone's preferred control schemes? After seeing a FG video of a pretty good player they mentioned assigning the right/c stick to specials helped with ToonLonk's bombs and it does seem easier for a downB, however easy smashes help too and maybe some people have problems with tilts?

What works best for you guys, out of interest?

 

[Krysco]

My controls are set to attack rather than smash due to what smash does to aerials. set to jump though that's mostly for when I'm Ike so I can sh fair in any direction without lag. I also have tap jump off. Everything else is default. This is what I use for all characters including . I've also considered making do something else since I always use to jump.

I'm also glad someone else asked what SJ means, I thought it meant short jump too, never got around to asking though. Guess I'm too used to the term double jump although second/third etc jump would make more sense for characters with numerous jumps.

 

[Metalex]

I haven't experimented enough with alternative control schemes yet but i play with the normal control scheme with tap jump off and the only difference being set to shield instead of jump cause i find it a bit faster to use than the / triggers on the GC controller. Im gonna try setting the stick to tilts though and see if it's good as many people seem to have it!

 

[divade]

Okay, I even checked the smash dictionary for SJ, so i thought i'd ask instead of guessing.

My scheme is to tilts because i often accidentally smash when turning and tilt hitting. also is Jump, always shield+grab so i never use the actual grab button. I've thought about setting to special for the same reasons as using for aerials. never tested it though.

What's wrong with smash aerials (besides Robin)?

 

[divade]

Discovered a pretty cool thing today which i guess we can call Spinout Sliding or something.

If you do a Spinout from the air close to the ground and time it correctly you will slide across the ground a bit, but if you do this from the ledge as close to the ground as possible you will slide across half of the stage!

It looks pretty awesome, and not im not sure if there's any applications for it yet but i have been able to hit opponents out of the intial Spinout and slided into a Usmash/Dsmash.

i was testing this and found that if you're driving in the air, and during your early spinout you /don't/ slide. It's hard to say when or if it would be helpful though. you want him to be completely turned around when his tires land, theres a ton o lag though so it could just be something to avoid.

 

[Metalex]

i was testing this and found that if your driving in the air, and during your early spinout you /don't/ slide. It's hard to say when or if it would be helpful though. you want him to be completely turned around when his tires land, theres a ton o lag though so it could just be something to avoid.

Yeah if you don't time it correctly you simply spin in place where you land. I have caught opponents by surprise with it sliding past/under them attacking sometimes, but like you said it's hard to find a application where it's useful consistently. Still a fun trick though!

 

[divade]

I just found a use! I also just got his *side B 2, the dash one. with this special, and landing without sliding, it's a good tactic if the opponent decides to roll towards you, or if they often spot dodge you can land on them and spin in place. (this spin in place works any time you touch the ground btw)

PS. flying with *side-B is awesome

 

[meleebrawler]

I just found a use! I also just got his Down B 2, the dash one. with this special, and landing without sliding, it's a good tactic if the opponent decides to roll towards you, or if they often spot dodge you can land on them and spin in place. (this spin in place works any time you touch the ground btw)

PS. flying with Down-B is awesome

I didn't know impatient mechakoopas let you fly...

 

[divade]

I didn't know impatient mechakoopas let you fly...

Fixed, sorry 'bout that.

 

[Bowserdude]

Okay, I even checked the smash dictionary for SJ, so i thought i'd ask instead of guessing.

My scheme is to tilts because i often accidentally smash when turning and tilt hitting. also is Jump, always shield+grab so i never use the actual grab button. I've thought about setting to special for the same reasons as using for aerials. never tested it though.

What's wrong with smash aerials (besides Robin)?

I feel like I'm the only one here who isn't used to the Gamecube controller...

 

[Bowserdude]

Also, I noticed that the Cannon sends you back a bit when used in midair, so that could help his recovery, and opponents usually won't see it coming.

 

[divade]

By the time it fires, you'd of covered more distance free falling, I try to use it but it just feels vulnerable.
about the GCN use I also use gamepad, but the stick reverses sometimes when you flick it, really annoying since it's unexpected. I haven't tried the pro really.

 

[Weruop]

I'd like to make note of some things i think are useful or could be getting overlooked. All of it could be known info by most of you for all I know, but id like to just lay it out in ink.

Misc.
If you use side b on stage and spinout before reaching the edge of the stage, buffer your Up B by jsut spamming it like mad, and when your kart drops, itll fall down off the stage rather than staying on the stage.

If you use the jump canceled kart towards the center of the stage while youre right at the edge of the stage, you will bump the edge of the stage and do the weird bouncing thing like you landed. and if you spinout asap, you will slide to center of the stage.

If you are on the edge and use x or y to get up, throwing out side b followed immediately by spinout, asap, will get you to about the center of the stage

With JC side b, you can get to an idle opponent in I think 6 or 7 frames, as opposed to 11, if i recall correctly.

As for more gameplay and play style related things, I feel a benefit from mixing up JC side b full speed and regular side b at slow speed. Using the absolute slowest and fastest options for your side b, depending on ur relative position to ur opponent, can keep them from getting too familiar with your JC Side b.

If your opponent doesnt try to pick up your down or explode it with their projectiles, Down b, to side b, to upb can be useful and fairly safe against numerous characters. when you are coming back down, be sure to fast fall and put the walking mechakoopa between yourself and the opponent.

When a mechakoopa just walked past an opponent and is on its way back, if you use side b, then JC low speed side be can be very useful as a pressuring tool while still giving you space. if they sit in shield, you can time your side b to hit their shield them right before the mechakoopa tries to get them on its way back around, then up b , and fall backward putting the mechakoopa between u and the opponent. Just some pressuring options if the chance comes up

Hopefully also everyone is utilizing dash away -> jc side b towarddd the opponent. the side b itself gives a nice little evasive pull away from the opponent before chargin in, but very often, especially when punishing landings, dashing away right before using your side b, can give u the perfect amount of space u need to get out of the way and then seal another side b hit.

if an opponent begins to try to punish your side b by shielding and reacting OOS, try spinning out right after hitting their shield with your "driving" hurtbox.

deploying mechakoopas backwards can confuse and fluster an opponent so see what u can get out of it when u feel your approaches are becoming too dull and linear. this is a big one for me :0 its not rare for me to have to run away for a bit and throw out koopas and play really safe til i can find a nice opening

Hopefully if time allows, someone, or myself, can build a chart for the best percentages to side b to hammer swing on characters for a kill. Also, a chart for side b to fresh upair kill percentages would be nice too for when you have a fresh stock and are trying to get a quick kill.

If i have anything else ill just update this post

 

[Smasher89]

I was being able to cancel the side b to uptilt, is that common knowledge and how is it done?

 

[divade]

I was being able to cancel the side b to uptilt, is that common knowledge and how is it done?

You canceled the kart into a Tilt? without jumping? that sound crazy, sorry for skepticism but are you sure?

 

[Smasher89]

Rewatched and its a strange but good trade against Zeldas b, didnt notice i did take 2 damage during it.

I´ve uploaded it as a for glory match on the Wii u server, just search for a bowser jr(smasher( vs zelda(Matias) match on country set as sweden, it happens around 8 sec into the match so its easy to rewatch and looks like it atleast can be situationally useful.

 

[Sheddy]

idk if I'm just good with or if it is FG but it is odd that so many people seem to not really know how to fight the koopalings one thing I personally love about them is almost all of their attaks are disjointed so you can get away with alot of safe attacks plus their down b can be great set up tools

 

[Ridel]

idk if I'm just good with or if it is FG but it is odd that so many people seem to not really know how to fight the koopalings one thing I personally love about them is almost all of their attaks are disjointed so you can get away with alot of safe attacks plus their down b can be great set up tools

Yeah a lot of people are very unfamiliar with the BJ MU because he's not really a popular character anymore. In all my 1000+ FG matches I played I have yet to see any other BJ players it's actually quite shocking, though FG isn't the best way to practice to begin with.

 

[Smasher89]

ofc theres few bowser junior players because Iggy is more awesome (the laugh when startingside b> jump is a reason to play him XD)
Btw which matchups are clearly in this chars favour?

 

[Sheddy]

Yeah a lot of people are very unfamiliar with the BJ MU because he's not really a popular character anymore. In all my 1000+ FG matches I played I have yet to see any other BJ players it's actually quite shocking, though FG isn't the best way to practice to begin with.

yeah BJ really is not common used and it's funny seeing someone trying to think how to fight him between their traps like the mecha koopa's the rush down with their side b to airs and their powerful smashes alot of people don't know a real way to get to them

 

[Sheddy]

ofc theres few bowser junior players because Iggy is more awesome (the laugh when startingside b> jump is a reason to play him XD)
Btw which matchups are clearly in this chars favour?

I've noticed characters that try to rush down like and have trouble against them because the mecha koopa's stop their rush and their hit and run type of gameplay makes it hard for them to get a hold on them IMO

 

[Smasher89]

Yea, noticed the first set i saw were twiggy playing, and he lost to shiek though.

 

[AlvisCPU]

Hey guys. I've managed to convince a few of my friends to attend a local Smash tourney, though none of them play competitively. So that they don't get completely destroyed Round 1, I'm trying to look up some advice for their characters. One guy plays a lot of Iggy. Any general advice for what he should or shouldn't be doing? Basic tips? Kill moves? Any easy combos I should teach him? I know he uses side-B and up-B a lot (maybe too much), hopefully I can make sure he's not just throwing them out wildly

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

When approaching, try to have your Mechakoopa out there before you go in. Don't expect to use Cannonballs too often unless Customs are ON and you get to trade that in for either Neutral 2 or 3, or if you're fighting someone like or or . If you're in position to punish, DO make use of Side B Jump Cancels into aerials for big damage. Speaking of that, one of the TOP tips I can give to any Jr player is to PLEASE Jump Cancel out of Side B. Jr. gets so much damage, KO power (including edgeguards), and even speed and recovery, among others, out of Side B Jump Cancels, that he becomes like a Melty Blood or Scarlet Weather Rhapsody character when this is done often.

KO Moves: BAir
FAir (near the edges, definitely. Most likely, because of how important this move is for building damage, it'll be heavily staled),
UAir
NAir (when going for the stage spike or edgeguard)
FTilt (at 150+% near the edges)
Neutral A string (close to the edge at 130+%? Don't count on the launcher punch to connect too often at that point)
Side B JC -> UAir --> Up B --> A (hammer) KOs at around 75-ish%
Side B JC --> Up B --> A (hammer) KOs at around 100-ish%
FSmash at 90+%
DSmash at 110+%?
USmash at 100+%?
Back Throw at 150+% near the edges
The Spinout during Side B at around 130+% near the edges
Up B in general (try chasing folks who've been launched upwards with it, but exercise caution around folks like these: , , , (if Hydrant's NOT out already), (if he's any good, you'll probably either be dodged with Side B JCs, or eating Up B's explosion for trying), (Rock Smash/Hurl! 'Nuff said.), (Spring!), / (Falcon/Warlock Kicks!) and virtually anyone with a Counter.

Speaking of Up B, if you're hit during it, try pressing R (or whatever button is your airdodge button) to get back your Clown Car to be able to Up B again. Depending on what move hits you, even this method will fail, such as light attacks like 's Jab & 's NAir.

Here's some juggles off of his Side B:
Side B --> Jump Cancel --> DAir --> ShortHop FAir --> Neutral A string (juggle ends here) or DTilt (juggle ends here) or UTilt x? --> UAir x? at 0%

Side B JC --> NAir is reliable at 30-ish%

Side B JC --> UAir is reliable at 50-75-ish%

Side B JC -> UAir --> Up B --> A (hammer) KOs at around 75-ish%

Side B JC --> Up B --> A (hammer) KOs at around 100-ish%

 

[Sheddy]

Hey guys. I've managed to convince a few of my friends to attend a local Smash tourney, though none of them play competitively. So that they don't get completely destroyed Round 1, I'm trying to look up some advice for their characters. One guy plays a lot of Iggy. Any general advice for what he should or shouldn't be doing? Basic tips? Kill moves? Any easy combos I should teach him? I know he uses side-B and up-B a lot (maybe too much), hopefully I can make sure he's not just throwing them out wildly

tell him to play a hit and run tactic it helps when you learn how to pin people down with the mecha toopa also tell him to learn how to abuse disjointed attack because all of the kooplings attack are disjointed so their are more safe options

 

[AlvisCPU]

Well, he kind of scrubbed out in the end... but anyway I think he has the hit-and-run thing down, roughly. He needs to learn to combo the side-B into aerials, because it's a way more reliable choice than side-B -> up-B. (Or if that does connect, he needs to do it way faster.) Sounds sensible with the Mechakoopas, I guess they'd work pretty well for forcing your opponent into certain positions and would be pretty threatening if you pick it up yourself.

 

[Sheddy]

Well, he kind of scrubbed out in the end... but anyway I think he has the hit-and-run thing down, roughly. He needs to learn to combo the side-B into aerials, because it's a way more reliable choice than side-B -> up-B. (Or if that does connect, he needs to do it way faster.) Sounds sensible with the Mechakoopas, I guess they'd work pretty well for forcing your opponent into certain positions and would be pretty threatening if you pick it up yourself.

yeah pressure is one of the Kooplings strong points

 

[Snailtopus]

What do you guys think is the best option after down-airing an opponents shield? Shield is bad because you just get grabbed, but on characters with slower grabs I've had some success with a retreating short hop

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

I've personally tried going straight into either Jab or especially DTilt, due to their startup being 4 frames, so against folks with slower buttons than mine and/or not using Guard Cancels into anything, it could serve as a frame trap to not only push them back, but slightly wear down their shields. 'Course, if the opponent tries to go for a laggy punish after blocking my DAir, said 4 frame Jab or DTilt could instead straight up hit them. Since DTilt recovers surprisingly quick, I can go for a 2nd DTilt afterwards in case the opponent tries to rush in for a punish (frame trap #2~), or some other move entirely, either for the KO if the opponent's at 100+%, or to escape into neutral if I'm at 100+%.

One could try Up B, but I'd personally only advise going for it often if you're running Up 2 (Meteor Ejection) for its super armor, or *gasp* Up 3, due to its fast vertical rise in comparison to the other Up B moves.

I'd sooner recommend (Short Hop) Side 3 (Grounding Dash) if away from the edges, due to how far back it moves you before rushing forward, on top of its super armor. The back movement is greater if you SH before starting Side 3.

 

[Metalex]

What do you guys think is the best option after down-airing an opponents shield? Shield is bad because you just get grabbed, but on characters with slower grabs I've had some success with a retreating short hop

Dair on shield is a dangerous situation, but i always try to land slightly behind the opponent so i wont get shieldgrabbed and grab them myself ,Dtilt or just retreat with a shorthop Fair/Bair. Theres probably some better options but it works for me in general.

 

[IronLion]

When I first started Bowser Jr adventures this was one of my major issues. Being punished for bad positioning of Dairs amongst other things. As many others have said:
-Jab
-D-Tilt
-I have gotten off F-Tilt here and there

I've never tried a Shorthop Fair so I may give that one a shot to see how fast I can pull it off. Getting off the tilts or jab isn't hard and usually is a good option D-Tilt being superior to someone who's shield because it wears the shield down and unless they're ballsy the shield usually goes down on that third lick. However to be honest the more I tried to Dair the more I realized it's not always the best option. If you're looking to cover yourself when landing from the air try Fair every now and then the disjointed hitbox seems to get by shields sometimes or they'll try to challenge your landing but the Fair comes out quick enough. I want to try some Neutral Air mix ups (because BJ reminds me of Tron from MvC3 so much >_>)

 

[Snailtopus]

Yeah a bad Dair is a tricky situation. Dtilt and spotdodge have been my go-to responses, but I'll start incorporating the retreating fairs. Also, I prefer to cover my landings with Nair rather than Fair, comes out pretty quick and the landing lag doesnt seem as bad as Fair's

 

[Kaladin]

So, I have FINALLY found a character that just clicks! (Junior, obviously.) I love the zoning and trapping options with MK, canononball, and his amazing disjointed fair/bair, combined with the ability to rush down when an opening is created. It's awesome. That said, I'm really not sure how to bait with BJ/what good baiting moves are. Tomahawk out of side B is excellent, but outside of that, I really don't know what bait to use. Help?

 

[Snailtopus]

@ Kaladin Baits are tough because Jr's grab isn't very good. One mixup I suggest is to use side b through their shield, and then jump cancel into a backair, as they'll usually try to chase you

 

[Kaladin]

I apologize if any of this is known, but BJ's meta is so underdeveloped, I figure I may as well post this. Everything is tested on a 'stop' mario CPU on omega Dreamland. I'm not going to test % ranges for everything, because I don't have the patience.

- (~50%) If you full hop over someone and throw a held MK down onto them, it true combos into spinout for 20% damage. Additionally, while this is risky and no guaranteed, you can jump after them with a fair for more damage/a gimp/the KO if they DI in, since you still have your clown cart and up B to get back.
-If they're too high for Uair after side B but to low for upB, a held MK true combos if you buffer the upthrown MK after the jump cancel.
- This exists purely for cuteness/style points as it's difficult to set up and execute, but at ~90%, I threw a held MK up, dash forward, double jump up B. MK it mario, true combo'd him into the UP B explosion, which true combo'd into the Up B hammer. Rip mario. (Again, I could not replicate this. Probably fame perfect, or close-to.)

That's all the time I have for lambing right now

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I just wanted to say Bowser Jr. has a horrible jab. I hope it gets fixed soon.

 

[divade]

He has a fantastic jab imo, great damage, range and if they don't get out, kill potential.

I just wanted to say Bowser Jr. has a horrible jab. I hope it gets fixed soon.

 

[Dessa]

He has a fantastic jab imo, great damage, range and if they don't get out, kill potential.

Yes, if they don't get out.

 

[divade]

Yes, if they don't get out.

Maybe I just haven't faced high enough level players, but against midweights I usually know when to quit trying it. also I used to use diddy more, so maybe just every jab is good compared XD.

 

[pikazz]

his first jab is awesome, however his second jab is really bad. the loop and final hit is good, would be much ebtter if it connected better