Yesterday I made a post on Reddit giving information on Gun's complete frame data as well as a new tech I discovered. You can find that post at https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/bhg9gk/new_joker_tech_gun_canceling/
Let's talk guns for a second.
Joker is the most recent DLC fighter, and as expected we moved to document his frame data for everyone to know. I've been looking around Wikis for frame data on Joker's Gun, but it either wasn't there or was very limited. Since extensive documentation of Joker's gun didn't exist, I decided to try documenting it. Not only did I determine Gun's frame data, I also discovered a new tech that I haven't seen anybody talk about which I will go in-depth to try to explain it. These are the results of my findings.
Before I begin, I would like to tell you to take this info with a grain of salt. This is the first time I have ever done something like this, so I apologize in advance if I made some mistakes. For reference, I tested everything in Training Mode on the Practice stage against Lucina.
Start-up and End Lag (from held B)
Both Gun and Gun special appear to have the same start-up lag, 12 frames (about 1/5th of a second at 60fps), regardless of whether or not Joker is grounded or airborne. On the 13th frame Joker shoots a bullet that travels roughly 5 units in 2 frames (about 1/30th of a second).
After the 12 frames of start-up, Gun appears to end on frame 24 (2/5th of a second) where he then puts away his gun or starts to fire another shot. It stands to reason that Joker can act immediately after the 24th frame. When B is held down, Joker starts to shoot another bullet after another 12 frame start-up. I evidently forgot to document the end lag for Gun Special, but I don't anticipate people using Gun Special once Arsene comes out.
Gun Dodge Rolls
After the 24th frame of Gun, you can hold left or right on the control stick to dodge roll left or right. If Joker initiates the roll on frame 31 he is completely invincible on frame 34 until frame 44, when invincibility ends.
Gun Dash Frame Data
I'm not a wizard, sorry.
Hit Stun Delay
Joker's Gun has some hit stun if a bullet connects with an opponent. This hit stun, like damage, varies based on distance. The following was tested on fixed damage at 0% damage ratio:
From 5 units away, Gun appears to deal no hit stun and does roughly 1 damage.
From 4 units away, Gun deals 6 frames of hit stun and does roughly 1 damage.
From 3 units away, Gun does 6 frames of hit stun and does about 3 damage.
From 2 units away, Gun does 15 frames of hit stun and does roughly 3 damage.
From 1 unit away or closer, Gun does 17 frames of hit stun and deals about 5 damage.
The New Tech
On the 24th frame of Gun (with B held down), Joker has a small window of roughly 5 frames (1/12th of a second) where you can input a grab, a shield, or a taunt. In doing so, the 12 frame start-up animation is canceled into that input. This 5 frame window can be avoided if you buffer the input the instant after Joker fires a bullet from Gun. I would like to focus mainly on a Canceled Grab and a Canceled Shield (for obvious reasons), but just know that Gun can be canceled into a taunt as well.
Gun-Canceled Shield
On the 24th frame you can cancel Gun into a Shield. The shield deploys on the 26th frame, meaning that the time it takes for shield to deploy is consistent with Joker's 2 frame start-up for shield. From shield, Joker can do any out-of-shield options he would normally have with consistent frame data.
Gun-Canceled Grab
On the 24th frame you can cancel Gun into a grab. The grab initiates on frame 25 and continues until frame 32, when Joker successfully grabs an opponent. Joker's regular grab has 6 frames of start-up, and 32 frames minus 24 frames does not equal 6 frames--it equals 8 frames. Somewhere in this animation I lost 2 whole frames, and I have no idea what happened to them. If someone can let me know what the heck happened that would be awesome.
Conclusions
What does all this stuff mean? Well, I dunno. I'm not a professional Smash Bros player. The only thing I can give you is theory. In theory, it may be possible for you to cancel Gun into a grab on the 24th frame in the time it takes for hit stun to wear off. This means that, theoretically, you can start doing the grab combos that Joker can do and rack up the damage while your opponent cannot act. My guess is that this window is very small and the timing to pull this off is very precise, but I'm sure it is possible.
Let's talk guns for a second.
Joker is the most recent DLC fighter, and as expected we moved to document his frame data for everyone to know. I've been looking around Wikis for frame data on Joker's Gun, but it either wasn't there or was very limited. Since extensive documentation of Joker's gun didn't exist, I decided to try documenting it. Not only did I determine Gun's frame data, I also discovered a new tech that I haven't seen anybody talk about which I will go in-depth to try to explain it. These are the results of my findings.
Before I begin, I would like to tell you to take this info with a grain of salt. This is the first time I have ever done something like this, so I apologize in advance if I made some mistakes. For reference, I tested everything in Training Mode on the Practice stage against Lucina.
Start-up and End Lag (from held B)
Both Gun and Gun special appear to have the same start-up lag, 12 frames (about 1/5th of a second at 60fps), regardless of whether or not Joker is grounded or airborne. On the 13th frame Joker shoots a bullet that travels roughly 5 units in 2 frames (about 1/30th of a second).
After the 12 frames of start-up, Gun appears to end on frame 24 (2/5th of a second) where he then puts away his gun or starts to fire another shot. It stands to reason that Joker can act immediately after the 24th frame. When B is held down, Joker starts to shoot another bullet after another 12 frame start-up. I evidently forgot to document the end lag for Gun Special, but I don't anticipate people using Gun Special once Arsene comes out.
Gun Dodge Rolls
After the 24th frame of Gun, you can hold left or right on the control stick to dodge roll left or right. If Joker initiates the roll on frame 31 he is completely invincible on frame 34 until frame 44, when invincibility ends.
Gun Dash Frame Data
I'm not a wizard, sorry.
Hit Stun Delay
Joker's Gun has some hit stun if a bullet connects with an opponent. This hit stun, like damage, varies based on distance. The following was tested on fixed damage at 0% damage ratio:
From 5 units away, Gun appears to deal no hit stun and does roughly 1 damage.
From 4 units away, Gun deals 6 frames of hit stun and does roughly 1 damage.
From 3 units away, Gun does 6 frames of hit stun and does about 3 damage.
From 2 units away, Gun does 15 frames of hit stun and does roughly 3 damage.
From 1 unit away or closer, Gun does 17 frames of hit stun and deals about 5 damage.
The New Tech
On the 24th frame of Gun (with B held down), Joker has a small window of roughly 5 frames (1/12th of a second) where you can input a grab, a shield, or a taunt. In doing so, the 12 frame start-up animation is canceled into that input. This 5 frame window can be avoided if you buffer the input the instant after Joker fires a bullet from Gun. I would like to focus mainly on a Canceled Grab and a Canceled Shield (for obvious reasons), but just know that Gun can be canceled into a taunt as well.
Gun-Canceled Shield
On the 24th frame you can cancel Gun into a Shield. The shield deploys on the 26th frame, meaning that the time it takes for shield to deploy is consistent with Joker's 2 frame start-up for shield. From shield, Joker can do any out-of-shield options he would normally have with consistent frame data.
Gun-Canceled Grab
On the 24th frame you can cancel Gun into a grab. The grab initiates on frame 25 and continues until frame 32, when Joker successfully grabs an opponent. Joker's regular grab has 6 frames of start-up, and 32 frames minus 24 frames does not equal 6 frames--it equals 8 frames. Somewhere in this animation I lost 2 whole frames, and I have no idea what happened to them. If someone can let me know what the heck happened that would be awesome.
Conclusions
What does all this stuff mean? Well, I dunno. I'm not a professional Smash Bros player. The only thing I can give you is theory. In theory, it may be possible for you to cancel Gun into a grab on the 24th frame in the time it takes for hit stun to wear off. This means that, theoretically, you can start doing the grab combos that Joker can do and rack up the damage while your opponent cannot act. My guess is that this window is very small and the timing to pull this off is very precise, but I'm sure it is possible.
Thanks for the new tech !
