Joker Classic Mode!

[HenryXLII]

With us slowly getting closer towards Joker I thought it would be fun to come up with what his classic mode will be like. I present to you.....

SEND THE CALLING CARD!

In Persona 5, each of the antagonists you face is tied to one of the seven deadly sins (despite there being 8 sins in the game...) and with seven stages, this seems like the most logical format for his classic mode. I also just love the idea of Joker stealing the hearts of various Nintendo villains/anti heroes.

The name refers to the fact that before targeting someone, Joker sends them a calling card declaring what their sin is. Smash obviously would not reference a concept like the sins directly, so I went with a name that has no religious connotation.

I am also going to have a little fun and throw some Persona music onto each stage, despite having no music confirmed.

Stage 1

Opponent: Bayonetta (Lust)
Stage: Dracula's Castle
Song: Last Surprise

Bayo is the most sexualized character in Smash no contest, and is really the only character that can accurately represent lust. Joker needs to pay her a visit so she can tone it down a bit, this game is rated E after all! I chose Dracula's castle as Lust in Persona 5 resides in a very iconic castle.

Stage 2
Character: King Dedede (Gluttony)
Stage: Fountain of Dreams
Song: Sweatshop

Kirby may be a glutton, but D3 literally steals all of the food from the kingdom for himself, despite being king! If that doesn't warrant a call from the Phantom Thieves I am not sure what does! I chose Fountain of Dreams because of all the Kirby stages, it is the most sureal. Matching with the concept that Joker breaks into people's minds.

Stage 3

Character: Incineroar (Pride)
Stage: Boxing Ring
Song: Keeper of Lust

Incineroar may be the champ, but it's got a bit of an ego doesn't it? Instead of inspiring it's foes to be better, it taunts them and makes them feel bad. Joker is going to make Incineroar a bit more humble, or at the very least get it to stop taunting online where taunting is banned. Boxing Ring was chosen because it represents all the glitz and glory of wrestling.

Stage 4

Character: Wario (Greed)
Stage: Warioware Inc
Song: Price

Wario is a rotten scumbag who will do anything to make a quick buck (and I love him for it). Stealing treasure... chucking Princesses... publishing cheap video games?! We deserve better from one that is so closely tied to Mario! Warioware was chosen because well.... where else?

Stage 5

Character: Ganondorf (Wrath)
Stage: Gerudo Valley
Song: Rivers In The Dessert

The King of Evil. Need I say more? Without a doubt one of the highest targets on Joker's list, but there is one even higher...

Stage 6

Character: Luigi (Envy)
Stage: Mushroomy Kingdom
Song: The Days When My Mother Was There

I think it would be a funny twist to throw Luigi in with all of these other sins, especially because Smash has a history of highlighting his inferiority complex to Mario with things like the Negative Zone, and titles like "The Eternal Understudy". I chose the Mushroomy Kingdom because a palace represents a distorted view of a real place... Luigi sees 1-1 as being neglected, barren, just as starved as he is for recognition. Cheer up Luigi! Perhaps one day you will learn that you are more beloved than your brother!

Stage 7

Obligatory Bonus Stage (Sloth)


Stage 8
Boss: Dracula (Vanity)
Song: Life Will Change (Phase 1), Blooming Villain (Phase 2)

While I am honestly expecting Master Hand to be the boss, I think ignoring Dracula would be a wasted opportunity. He starts out with his Human form like most antagonists in Persona do, but like any good Persona 5 boss, putting him in a corner reveals his monster form! This combined with the dark atmosphere of his stage makes me think he is the perfect boss for Joker, and upon his defeat, Joker will have reformed a majority of the Smash cast!

Please tell me what you think of this Classic mode and if there are any tweaks you would make to it, or if you have your own ideas!

 

[Deleted member]

Not a bad list. I'd switch it around a little and throw out Vanity, though. Vanity isn't one of the sins. They're Greed, Wrath, Pride, Envy, Sloth, Gluttony, and Lust. And I'm not taking this from FMA or the show 7 deadly sins (though, it is accurate); the whole theme comes from the Bible in which these are the 7 deadly (cardinal) sins.

I might try and keep it to villains, though, so it fits more in line with the theme of what he was doing. It may be hard though since I don't think we've got enough, but I'll give it a shot keeping your same lineup of 'Sins'.

Stage 1: Lust- Bowser (He's repeatedly kidnapping Peach to make her his wife; he lusts after her lol)
Stage 2: Gluttony- King DeDeDe (Perfect choice)
Stage 3: Pride- Ridley (Very proud, resilient space pirate. Incineroar is a heel and wresting is fake, so he's not really 'evil')
Stage 4: Greed- Wario (Perfect choice)
Stage 5: Envy- King K. Rool (Villain who desires Donkey Kong's banannas and is constantly taking what the Kongs have)
Stage 6: Sloth- Bowser Jr. (He uses a clown cart to move around instead of walking...best I can do lol)
Stage 7: Bonus (no sin necessary)
Stage 8: Wrath- Ganandorf Boss battle (Regular battle followed by Boss form)

That way, not only do you get all the Sins accounted for, you also get all villains in the roles.

 

[HenryXLII]

I really like putting Bowser over lust, its honestly perfect, and the idea of beating up Bayo did seem kinda weird for Joker. Though I would debate about keeping Incineroar in the line up since the game itself does pair him with the villians/anti heroes. Most likely due to the dark typing along with the aggressive demeanor. Plus Ridley does not make me think of Pride off the bat, despite him being more than just a roaring monster.

Vanity is included because the second antagonist you face in Persona 5 is marked as Vanity, despite it not being a sin.

Lastly as for the Ganondorf Boss fight instead of Dracula, that works as well since it still does the whole transformation thing. Thanks for posting, you did get me thinking about rearranging things.

 

[Deleted member]

No problem; glad you appreciate the changes. I was hesitant with Ridley too; I was just trying to get all villains in there. I guess if the game is classifying Incineroar as more villain-like, then he fits better. Especially as Pride since he literally poses after successful Smash attacks lol.

It feels wrong to leave out Ridley; a shame there's nothing good for him. He is super vengeful and just straight murderous and ruthless. His evil is more 'pure', though....if that makes sense. Like, its not a distorted desire; it's just a pure liking of being a Space Pirate lol. A shame they don't have the giant melee-Ridley model anymore; they could have done like a tag-team Boss match with Boss Ganondorf (second form) and Metal Ridley. Like, you beat one and then the next comes out. Ending on Ganondorf feels better though. The Legend of Zelda is one of their biggest series and Ganondorf is a big villain; he deserves to be the 'final match'.

It probably won't be themed as well as this, but I'm fairly confident that a Joker Classic run will be a Villain-themed run. Whether it ends on Ganondorf or Dracula though is up to debate. They should keep it Ganon, but I can see it easily being Dracula (despite, again, him not really being Evil due to a distorted desire but rather just straight Darkness lol).

 

[recordagger]

Joker Classic Mode
Send the Calling Card

Stage 1 - Lust - Bayonetta 1 Red - Costume 2 - Loves to Taunt -- Dracula's Castle=Castle of Lust
Stage 2 - Vanity - Falco Orange - Costume 2 - Loves Down B -- Luigi's Mansion=Museum of Vanity
Stage 3 - Gluttony - DDD White - Costume 6 - Loves Neutral B and Taunting -- New Donk City Hall=Bank of Gluttony
Stage 4 - Wrath - Ganondorf - Costume 8 - Loves Smash Attacks -- Gerudo Valley=Pyramid of Wrath
Stage 5 - Greed - Wario Light Blue - Costume 6 - Loves Items and Side-B -- Lylat Cruise= Spaceport of Greed
Stage 6 - Envy - Tiny Mario, Daisy, and Lucas - Loves Up B -- Gamer=Casino of Envy
Stage 7 - Sloth - Bonus Rush=Mementos
Stage 8 - Pride - Marx

Mario is jealous of Luigi because he is taller, married Peach, and has a mansion.
If you played the game Marx originally appeared in you would understand because of the wishes.
Gamer just fits perfectly.

 

[1FC0]

Stage 1: Lust- Bowser (He's repeatedly kidnapping Peach to make her his wife; he lusts after her lol)
Stage 2: Gluttony- King DeDeDe (Perfect choice)
Stage 3: Pride- Ridley (Very proud, resilient space pirate. Incineroar is a heel and wresting is fake, so he's not really 'evil')
Stage 4: Greed- Wario (Perfect choice)
Stage 5: Envy- King K. Rool (Villain who desires Donkey Kong's banannas and is constantly taking what the Kongs have)
Stage 6: Sloth- Bowser Jr. (He uses a clown cart to move around instead of walking...best I can do lol)
Stage 7: Bonus (no sin necessary)
Stage 8: Wrath- Ganandorf Boss battle (Regular battle followed by Boss form)

Here is what I think it ought to be:
Stage 1: Lust- Bowser or Bayonetta (Still on the fence though I am leaning towards Bayonetta for being more obvious based around lust)
Stage 2: Gluttony- King DeDeDe
Stage 3: Pride- Incineroar (He is proud and keeps taunting his opponents. And he is not faking it at all, he fights for real in Smash. So the heel argument makes no sense. Ridley is a bad pick because he is not known for pride nor is his pride obvious nor is pride even close to being his biggest sin.)
Stage 4: Greed- Wario
Stage 5: Sloth- Jigglypuff (Rest and Sing. Jigglypuff is fighter based around sleeping. Bowser Jr. is not lazy just because he uses weapons and in his own series Bowser Jr. is actually very active so Bowser Jr. makes no sense.)
Stage 6: Envy- Luigi (Luigi is perfect for this and no other character comes even close to how fun Luigi is for this. On the one had this is a cool plot twist since Luigi is generally a good guy, and on the other hand it makes perfect sense since his envy is hinted at both in Smash and in his own series. King K. Rool does not envy Donkey Kong's bananas. In fact King K. Rool hates bananas. He steals them for other reasons. So King K. Rool is a bad match for this. Donkey Kong himself would fit too for kidnapping Pauline but Luigi is by far the best IMO.)
Stage 7: Bonus (no sin necessary)
Stage 8: Wrath- Dracula Boss battle (For the reasons stated in OP and for possesing a lot of wrath.)

 

[KMDP]

With us slowly getting closer towards Joker I thought it would be fun to come up with what his classic mode will be like. I present to you.....

SEND THE CALLING CARD!

In Persona 5, each of the antagonists you face is tied to one of the seven deadly sins (despite there being 8 sins in the game...) and with seven stages, this seems like the most logical format for his classic mode. I also just love the idea of Joker stealing the hearts of various Nintendo villains/anti heroes.

The name refers to the fact that before targeting someone, Joker sends them a calling card declaring what their sin is. Smash obviously would not reference a concept like the sins directly, so I went with a name that has no religious connotation.

I am also going to have a little fun and throw some Persona music onto each stage, despite having no music confirmed.

Stage 1

Opponent: Bayonetta (Lust)
Stage: Dracula's Castle
Song: Last Surprise

Bayo is the most sexualized character in Smash no contest, and is really the only character that can accurately represent lust. Joker needs to pay her a visit so she can tone it down a bit, this game is rated E after all! I chose Dracula's castle as Lust in Persona 5 resides in a very iconic castle.

Stage 2
Character: King Dedede (Gluttony)
Stage: Fountain of Dreams
Song: Sweatshop

Kirby may be a glutton, but D3 literally steals all of the food from the kingdom for himself, despite being king! If that doesn't warrant a call from the Phantom Thieves I am not sure what does! I chose Fountain of Dreams because of all the Kirby stages, it is the most sureal. Matching with the concept that Joker breaks into people's minds.

Stage 3

Character: Incineroar (Pride)
Stage: Boxing Ring
Song: Keeper of Lust

Incineroar may be the champ, but it's got a bit of an ego doesn't it? Instead of inspiring it's foes to be better, it taunts them and makes them feel bad. Joker is going to make Incineroar a bit more humble, or at the very least get it to stop taunting online where taunting is banned. Boxing Ring was chosen because it represents all the glitz and glory of wrestling.

Stage 4

Character: Wario (Greed)
Stage: Warioware Inc
Song: Price

Wario is a rotten scumbag who will do anything to make a quick buck (and I love him for it). Stealing treasure... chucking Princesses... publishing cheap video games?! We deserve better from one that is so closely tied to Mario! Warioware was chosen because well.... where else?

Stage 5

Character: Ganondorf (Wrath)
Stage: Gerudo Valley
Song: Rivers In The Dessert

The King of Evil. Need I say more? Without a doubt one of the highest targets on Joker's list, but there is one even higher...

Stage 6

Character: Luigi (Envy)
Stage: Mushroomy Kingdom
Song: The Days When My Mother Was There

I think it would be a funny twist to throw Luigi in with all of these other sins, especially because Smash has a history of highlighting his inferiority complex to Mario with things like the Negative Zone, and titles like "The Eternal Understudy". I chose the Mushroomy Kingdom because a palace represents a distorted view of a real place... Luigi sees 1-1 as being neglected, barren, just as starved as he is for recognition. Cheer up Luigi! Perhaps one day you will learn that you are more beloved than your brother!

Stage 7

Obligatory Bonus Stage (Sloth)


Stage 8
Boss: Dracula (Vanity)
Song: Life Will Change (Phase 1), Blooming Villain (Phase 2)

While I am honestly expecting Master Hand to be the boss, I think ignoring Dracula would be a wasted opportunity. He starts out with his Human form like most antagonists in Persona do, but like any good Persona 5 boss, putting him in a corner reveals his monster form! This combined with the dark atmosphere of his stage makes me think he is the perfect boss for Joker, and upon his defeat, Joker will have reformed a majority of the Smash cast!

Please tell me what you think of this Classic mode and if there are any tweaks you would make to it, or if you have your own ideas!

Personally, I would go for a direct reference to the Targets from Persona 5.

Like

(Find Mii)
(Suzaku Castle, uses Final Smash a lot)
(Shadow Moses)
(Mushroomy Kingdom Battlefield)
(Golden Plains, unfortunately there's no good equivalent to a Casino, but Golden Plains has money in it, so...)
(White Alt) & (Red Alt) (Pirate Ship)
Bonus
Marx

 

[HenryXLII]

I just thought of another potential classic mode for Joker when listening to the P5 Sound Track. This would be less cool, but would be more of a cute reference and is certainly a unique approach. I don't really have a good name for this one, so I will just throw out the concept.

In Persona 5 you can get a game console that looks very similar to the Famicom, with various knock off video games that Joker can play to increase his social stats. Unsurprisingly, many of these games are based on famous Nintendo IPs and have references in Smash!

Examples include

Star Forneus: Obviously Star Fox. Perhaps fighting Fox on Venom.

Punch Ouch: Little Mac in the boxing ring.

Pro Golfer Sarutahiko: This is a reference to the game simply call Golf on the NES/Famicom. This game is referenced with Mario's American esq looking Alt, which is what he wore when he appeared in the game. The stage would probably be Wu-Hu island or Balloon Fight for the retro feel.

Train of Life: There is no direct reference to this in Smash, but if I recall correctly one of the main obstacles in the game is a Crocodile, so you could plop King.K.Rool on the Spirit Train and call it a day.

The other two games I am doubtful there are references to, they are as follows

Power Intuition, Gambla Goemon

If you can figure out a good way to represent these two games, go for it. I don't like this route as much as the calling card route, especially because this route has less justification for a unique boss fight/ but I do think it;s cool that Joker is getting to fight characters who are directly referenced in his game, and wanted to have some kind of nod to it.

Personally, I would go for a direct reference to the Targets from Persona 5.

Like

(Find Mii)
(Suzaku Castle, uses Final Smash a lot)
(Shadow Moses)
(Mushroomy Kingdom Battlefield)
(Golden Plains, unfortunately there's no good equivalent to a Casino, but Golden Plains has money in it, so...)
(White Alt) & (Red Alt) (Pirate Ship)
Bonus
Marx

I like this idea quite a bit and find your execution really creative. I love the use of Sazuka castle and using Marth's white alt to represent a certain someone. I'm just a tad doubtful that they will want to make a direct reference to Kamoshida in this game.

I'm curious as to why you picked Marx for the boss fight, is it because his arms somewhat resemble the Final Boss of P5? I know that Marx is without a doubt a manipulator who got the Sun and Moon to fight each other, so that makes him worthy of the calling card, he's just not the first that comes to mind.

 

[KMDP]

I like this idea quite a bit and find your execution really creative. I love the use of Sazuka castle and using Marth's white alt to represent a certain someone. I'm just a tad doubtful that they will want to make a direct reference to Kamoshida in this game.

I'm curious as to why you picked Marx for the boss fight, is it because his arms somewhat resemble the Final Boss of P5? I know that Marx is without a doubt a manipulator who got the Sun and Moon to fight each other, so that makes him worthy of the calling card, he's just not the first that comes to mind.

I think making a reference without context is fine, even for Kamoshida. Keep in mind that Smash also has Ridley and Metal Face, both of whom are horrible, horrible people.

As for "Why Marx?", it's because he's a False God, just like Yaldabaoth. The fact that is also a manipulator is just fortunate happenstance.

 

[HenryXLII]

I think making a reference without context is fine, even for Kamoshida. Keep in mind that Smash also has Ridley and Metal Face, both of whom are horrible, horrible people.

As for "Why Marx?", it's because he's a False God, just like Yaldabaoth. The fact that is also a manipulator is just fortunate happenstance.

This is true, there are also some nasty spirit references in the game, and I had no idea Marx had the title of False God. That is quite a fitting choice in that case.

 

[KMDP]

This is true, there are also some nasty spirit references in the game, and I had no idea Marx had the title of False God. That is quite a fitting choice in that case.

It's less that it's a title (neither character are specifically referred to as False Gods, as far as I'm aware), it's just what I chose to call Marx in reference to his scheme in Kirby Super Star (that is, making a wish to become a god).

 

[yyosh]

Personally, I would go for a direct reference to the Targets from Persona 5.

Like

(Find Mii)
(Suzaku Castle, uses Final Smash a lot)
(Shadow Moses)
(Mushroomy Kingdom Battlefield)
(Golden Plains, unfortunately there's no good equivalent to a Casino, but Golden Plains has money in it, so...)
(White Alt) & (Red Alt) (Pirate Ship)
Bonus
Marx

You could use Fourside instead of Golden Plains, because it fits the theme of the palace more than that. Also, I think it would be a nice touch to have the bonus game be after Bayo and before Marth/Ganon to represent the conversion from the past to the present.

 

[KMDP]

You could use Fourside instead of Golden Plains, because it fits the theme of the palace more than that. Also, I think it would be a nice touch to have the bonus game be after Bayo and before Marth/Ganon to represent the conversion from the past to the present.

Those are really good points!