Mewtwo vs Jiggs
I want to start off this thread with a video of two matches I played with my friend about two months ago. This is before I really got into mewtwo, so I know there are a lot of simple mistakes made in this video. However there are some things I'd like to point out and I'm sure you all will find things to do and not do in this video, and then we'll have a better idea of how to play this matchup.
http://youtu.be/oEYepdsqFQE
Some things before we even start:
I was really uncomfortable with teleporting to the edge back when I recorded this so if I teleport on stage and get bodied that's why. I plan on getting the stall down as well as getting comfortable picking the right angle to sweetspot the ledge, as well as the ledge AIs to combat this problem. Unlike fast characters in this game, I think slow characters should have too much trouble edge gaurding mewtwo while he still has his dj and teleport, I think that recovery should be free for mewtwo in those matchups.
My djc tech was still pretty awful at this time, so you'll see me miss l-cancels and screw up the timing so my fairs float and other bad stuff. I'm working on it. XD
I really don't know the best way to punish rest still, and all the punishes in this are terrible. And if I run up to her and jab, that's me trying to charge a smash attack. Sometimes when I do that I jab, not sure why.
And for the jiggs, he's actually really good at jiggs, who's not his main, but he completely shrecks my fox as jiggs if I'm slightly off that day. He doesn't have as much experience vs floaties, but he's still quite good.
Ok, now that the player specific stuff is out of the way, onto the matchup.
I'll start off with some times stamps, with notable information.
Game 1
0:18 Jiggs is at only 22%, after a fresh grab bthrow, I have enough time to charge shadow ball to about 1/3rd or even a 1/2 because of her slow speed. Though in the clip I spend a lot of it dash dancing, expecting her to get our of hitstun faster. If it turns out that having a fully charged shadow ball is quite good in this matchup, that might be something worth knowing.
Just afterwards I try just charging and the ball is almost complete. I think about 2 bthrows is a full shadow ball if you do nothing but charge it after the bthrow. Still not sure if that's better than trying to dthrow or uthrow. Fthrow still trash XD.
0:29 Tilts seem to wall out a jiggs who's hanging around in upward angled ftilts range pretty well, forcing her to change her spacing.
0:45 Nair seems like a good punishment for her spacing too close to you, but it's got no 'priority' compared to jiggs nair or fair or bair so I don't really suggest it out of neutral against someone quite careful. Afterwards I prolly could have tech chased with a dj NIL. I believe tech in place and tech in and away could be covered on the platform due to mewtwo's arm length. Other options include two dash wavedashes to a utilt or uair. I think that I could have gotten there on time if I had known the nair would even lead to that techchase.
1:18 I think three pummels uthrow woulda killed for certain but I wanted to see if bthrow would kill from there, and I'm not sure if that's proper DI.
1:28 Starting to really like dropping down on top of jiggs with that low forward hitbox. Her fair bair and nair don't really cover her forehead, so If you drop that nair on top of her I think it's kinda safe. Better than poking with bairs probably because you can get more off of a nair, though I guess shbawds are prolly safer in neutral. It's likely that a mixture will come to your aid in this matchup, since the disjoint on your bair at least kind of rivals jigg's.
2:15 Because mewtwo likes to kill off the top vs floaties, he'll get a lot of free fully charged shadowballs, which is super cool and not 70:30 or 65:45 doomsday matchups like I've heard- at least, imo.
2:28 When a slow character is back that far, take teh edge and ledge AI back or stall. Don't let this happen to you.
2:57 This part right here I think shows the silver lining to this matchup. Jiggs double jump is about as tall as mewtwo's bair's height - which means she can't escape so easily. It's also very wide so her air control jukes aren't very helpful. Also uair is even taller though it's not as wide. Together I think it is feasible to get that first hit on jiggs and then wall of pain jiggs to death.
3:03 When mewtwo burns his double jump, I believe that you can fast fall and air control back to the stage, do that technique just the same as when you up-b diagonally into a wall as fox, but as mewtwo. Since mewtwo's up b is so fast, it appears as if the teleport was shortened in some way. throw jiggs off or whatever, then go out and hit her.
If I had teleported with an angle slightly lower (risky on this stage, and a reason it might be good to decide not to go here against a character like jiggs who's unlikely to die to the confusion trick) I would have come out of teleport just above the very edge of the stage. Then I would have my jump and my dj left, and be ready to hit her again.
Alternatively, I could have just dj'd and then hit her with another move, then tp in'g to the ledge, and then just bair or uair the jiggs.
Doing this over and over has to be done until you can land a kill move on them either by chasing them off screen or building percent because of pound. I think it's possible that mewtwo could keep up this edge gaurd until it's successful, but maybe I'm just overly hopeful...
Game 2
3:19 Even at low percents, uthrow sends mewtwo waaay too far for jiggs to follow up, though I do have trouble coming down in this match spamming dair cuz I'm butts when nair was working ok (when spaced very very carefully)
4:18 If mewtwo hits that tippy tip tipper spacing, I believe it out 'prioritizes' pound. Basically I think it's safe to use ftilt in this situation, and it would set up for the bair train off stage I think.
4:25 I'm starting to think part of this matchup will really depend on you being able to hit jiggs while she's off screen. Does anyone know if that wonk hitbox of uair that sends people back hits harder than bair weak/strong? Might be a good idea to try and finish with that instead of bair, if it's stronger.
The rest doesn't require time stamps.
Basically, I think the edge gaurding guidelines (not really a flow chart yet) will be
go out(full hop) facing backwards to where if puff will be if she just air controls towards you after being hit off,
if she is too high and you have to spend the dj, spend it and uair ->bair, tp back
if she's in range, uair bair, dj(wait a few frames for a bit of lift)bair tp back
if she fast falls and you're too high, drift down and or dj (wait a few frames for a bit of lift) bair drift tp back
If you end up on the ledge and she's approaching just ledge hop bair or uair then then go out again.
Aaaand that's basically everything I have to say. I don't really know how to concisely put all this, so I little help would be awesome.
I want to start off this thread with a video of two matches I played with my friend about two months ago. This is before I really got into mewtwo, so I know there are a lot of simple mistakes made in this video. However there are some things I'd like to point out and I'm sure you all will find things to do and not do in this video, and then we'll have a better idea of how to play this matchup.
http://youtu.be/oEYepdsqFQE
Some things before we even start:
I was really uncomfortable with teleporting to the edge back when I recorded this so if I teleport on stage and get bodied that's why. I plan on getting the stall down as well as getting comfortable picking the right angle to sweetspot the ledge, as well as the ledge AIs to combat this problem. Unlike fast characters in this game, I think slow characters should have too much trouble edge gaurding mewtwo while he still has his dj and teleport, I think that recovery should be free for mewtwo in those matchups.
My djc tech was still pretty awful at this time, so you'll see me miss l-cancels and screw up the timing so my fairs float and other bad stuff. I'm working on it. XD
I really don't know the best way to punish rest still, and all the punishes in this are terrible. And if I run up to her and jab, that's me trying to charge a smash attack. Sometimes when I do that I jab, not sure why.
And for the jiggs, he's actually really good at jiggs, who's not his main, but he completely shrecks my fox as jiggs if I'm slightly off that day. He doesn't have as much experience vs floaties, but he's still quite good.
Ok, now that the player specific stuff is out of the way, onto the matchup.
I'll start off with some times stamps, with notable information.
Game 1
0:18 Jiggs is at only 22%, after a fresh grab bthrow, I have enough time to charge shadow ball to about 1/3rd or even a 1/2 because of her slow speed. Though in the clip I spend a lot of it dash dancing, expecting her to get our of hitstun faster. If it turns out that having a fully charged shadow ball is quite good in this matchup, that might be something worth knowing.
Just afterwards I try just charging and the ball is almost complete. I think about 2 bthrows is a full shadow ball if you do nothing but charge it after the bthrow. Still not sure if that's better than trying to dthrow or uthrow. Fthrow still trash XD.
0:29 Tilts seem to wall out a jiggs who's hanging around in upward angled ftilts range pretty well, forcing her to change her spacing.
0:45 Nair seems like a good punishment for her spacing too close to you, but it's got no 'priority' compared to jiggs nair or fair or bair so I don't really suggest it out of neutral against someone quite careful. Afterwards I prolly could have tech chased with a dj NIL. I believe tech in place and tech in and away could be covered on the platform due to mewtwo's arm length. Other options include two dash wavedashes to a utilt or uair. I think that I could have gotten there on time if I had known the nair would even lead to that techchase.
1:18 I think three pummels uthrow woulda killed for certain but I wanted to see if bthrow would kill from there, and I'm not sure if that's proper DI.
1:28 Starting to really like dropping down on top of jiggs with that low forward hitbox. Her fair bair and nair don't really cover her forehead, so If you drop that nair on top of her I think it's kinda safe. Better than poking with bairs probably because you can get more off of a nair, though I guess shbawds are prolly safer in neutral. It's likely that a mixture will come to your aid in this matchup, since the disjoint on your bair at least kind of rivals jigg's.
2:15 Because mewtwo likes to kill off the top vs floaties, he'll get a lot of free fully charged shadowballs, which is super cool and not 70:30 or 65:45 doomsday matchups like I've heard- at least, imo.
2:28 When a slow character is back that far, take teh edge and ledge AI back or stall. Don't let this happen to you.
2:57 This part right here I think shows the silver lining to this matchup. Jiggs double jump is about as tall as mewtwo's bair's height - which means she can't escape so easily. It's also very wide so her air control jukes aren't very helpful. Also uair is even taller though it's not as wide. Together I think it is feasible to get that first hit on jiggs and then wall of pain jiggs to death.
3:03 When mewtwo burns his double jump, I believe that you can fast fall and air control back to the stage, do that technique just the same as when you up-b diagonally into a wall as fox, but as mewtwo. Since mewtwo's up b is so fast, it appears as if the teleport was shortened in some way. throw jiggs off or whatever, then go out and hit her.
If I had teleported with an angle slightly lower (risky on this stage, and a reason it might be good to decide not to go here against a character like jiggs who's unlikely to die to the confusion trick) I would have come out of teleport just above the very edge of the stage. Then I would have my jump and my dj left, and be ready to hit her again.
Alternatively, I could have just dj'd and then hit her with another move, then tp in'g to the ledge, and then just bair or uair the jiggs.
Doing this over and over has to be done until you can land a kill move on them either by chasing them off screen or building percent because of pound. I think it's possible that mewtwo could keep up this edge gaurd until it's successful, but maybe I'm just overly hopeful...
Game 2
3:19 Even at low percents, uthrow sends mewtwo waaay too far for jiggs to follow up, though I do have trouble coming down in this match spamming dair cuz I'm butts when nair was working ok (when spaced very very carefully)
4:18 If mewtwo hits that tippy tip tipper spacing, I believe it out 'prioritizes' pound. Basically I think it's safe to use ftilt in this situation, and it would set up for the bair train off stage I think.
4:25 I'm starting to think part of this matchup will really depend on you being able to hit jiggs while she's off screen. Does anyone know if that wonk hitbox of uair that sends people back hits harder than bair weak/strong? Might be a good idea to try and finish with that instead of bair, if it's stronger.
The rest doesn't require time stamps.
Basically, I think the edge gaurding guidelines (not really a flow chart yet) will be
go out(full hop) facing backwards to where if puff will be if she just air controls towards you after being hit off,
if she is too high and you have to spend the dj, spend it and uair ->bair, tp back
if she's in range, uair bair, dj(wait a few frames for a bit of lift)bair tp back
if she fast falls and you're too high, drift down and or dj (wait a few frames for a bit of lift) bair drift tp back
If you end up on the ledge and she's approaching just ledge hop bair or uair then then go out again.
Aaaand that's basically everything I have to say. I don't really know how to concisely put all this, so I little help would be awesome.
