Jigglypuff's Dair

[KishPrime]

Can anyone enlighten me as to the philosophy behind the use of the dair? Reasoning over other aerials, priority, purposes, potential outcomes? I admit, I never used it back in the day at all, despite spending a decent amount of time in training mode with it trying to figure it out, but I'm seeing it in videos now.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Massive]

My basic usage of it is to lock someone's shield and prevent OoS retaliation.

It's a good mix-up when they're expecting a nair or fair and it stays out a very long time. It's also reasonably low-risk aerial to toss out, especially if they're shielding because of the substantial shieldstun it incurs.

While it can be difficult to time the l-cancel, dair>utilt poking someone's feet under their shield is a great feeling.

Additionally, if you're dairing from the ledge, starting the dair immediately after your drop>jump will result in a free autocancel when you land. It's absolutely fantastic if you want to get back on the stage and need to immediately fsmash/usmash/grab/rest/whatever your opponent.

It's also proven itself useful for forcibly resetting a sweetspotted space animal recovery.

 

[KishPrime]

I played around with it some last night. Part of it was that I just never bothered to learn the l-cancel/followup timing on it.

What exactly do you mean about the space animal recovery?

 

[Prelude]

I played around with it some last night. Part of it was that I just never bothered to learn the l-cancel/followup timing on it.

What exactly do you mean about the space animal recovery?

During Fox/Falco's recovery, Jigglypuff's Dair can actually knock them out of it.

 

[Massive]

During Fox/Falco's recovery, Jigglypuff's Dair can actually knock them out of it.

To clarify a bit more, it works best on Foxfire/Fire(bird? lol). You can reset their recovery even if they try to sweetspot it by dangling the hitbox right on the edge or slightly above their recovery vector.

They will be knocked a minimal distance away and be forced to attempt to recover again, usually from an angle that's now more punishable with whatever your tactic of choice is.

 

[mers]

Oooh I like that edgeguarding idea. Firespacy to the ledge is the most annoying option to have to cover.

Assuming it's executed perfectly, what does dair combo to? Like actually combo, not just link.

 

[username12345678]

Oooh I like that edgeguarding idea. Firespacy to the ledge is the most annoying option to have to cover.

Assuming it's executed perfectly, what does dair combo to? Like actually combo, not just link.

Rest

Spoiler

twelve years ago

 

[Prelude]

Rest

Spoiler

twelve years ago

Video related.

 

[Sagacious]

I really want to do dair to utilt or dair to usmash combos but I always **** it up I think because of the lag after the dair. Any advice on how to l-cancel it? I don't fully understand autocancelling either. If I l-cancel where I was going to autocancel will that ruin the autocancel?

 

[The Prince: SDJ]

I really want to do dair to utilt or dair to usmash combos but I always **** it up I think because of the lag after the dair. Any advice on how to l-cancel it? I don't fully understand autocancelling either. If I l-cancel where I was going to autocancel will that ruin the autocancel?

Do I late dair as you begin falling to have an easier chance of l-cancelling while the move's hitstun it still in effect.
Dair through the oppenent to get an easier up-tilt if you are facing them when you start the dair.

 

[Sagacious]

Do I late dair as you begin falling to have an easier chance of l-cancelling while the move's hitstun it still in effect.
Dair through the oppenent to get an easier up-tilt if you are facing them when you start the dair.

Awesome, thanks. I practiced on cpus last night and found that it's MUCH easier to cancel when you shffl the dairs.

 

[Massive]

SHFFLing isn't super helpful since it's not a super common situation you end up in during natural play. You're most likely going to be doing dair after another aerial rather than by itself.

Instead of practicing tech skill for a situation you will rarely get into, try maybe doing bair > dair > lcancel > whatever where you continue in the momentum of your bair to dair and land behind them. You will end up facing their back, which allows you to do all kinds of fun things to them (note spacies will often try to jump and nair/bair when you cross them up like this, so timing is pretty tight).

Your L-cancel timing is also different when you do it against someone's shield vs not shield and that is why it is so hard to practice this cancel. I've actually been screwing around with the "flash on L-cancel" code I linked in the other thread, and the best visual cue I've found to use to l-cancel dair (on shield) appears to be timing your press of L/R to be while you're doing that last hit on their shield before you land.

 

[Magnawolf]

Hbox apparently can combo it into a grab or up-smash which I never understood.

EDIT: just read about it in the other thread