Jigglypuff Moveset Discussion

[Z'zgashi]

I love jiggs throws. And her grab range is good.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Her grab range is god-like.
I use Bthrow and Uthrow mostly.

 

[teluoborg]

She has the same grab range as MK so yeah, it's broken.
She launches herself forward during her dashgrab so it gives her a little more range, but the ending lag is horrible.
Pivot grab is... good, like most pivot grabs. Except Jiggs doesn't run.
Jiggs has a boost pivot grab, it has no use and doesn't travel as far as Falco's or Snake's but it's cool to know.

You can set up a grab from aerials (Dair anyone ?) airdodges or sometimes jab (sometimes).

You can follow up the throws with nothing so use them for positioning.
Personnally I use Fthrow and Bthrow to put the opponent offstage/closer to the ledge, Uthrow to set up juggles (rarely) and Dthrow to troll.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Since all 4 throws do exactly the same damage and you can't follow up with any of them, its best to rotate them to avoid stale moves. Of course if there is a certain time you want to throw somebody in a certain direction then go ahead and do it. U throw is good against Snake because you can throw him up into the air which is where you want him to be and it doesn't blow up the grenade he's holding in his hand if he has one.

In doubles you want to avoid using D Throw due to the fact that their teammate could potentially interrupt you since it takes so long and dosn't do its damage until its over. But again its not something you have to completely avoid since its easy for your partner to time an attack.

Me and Vex came up with this funny combo with Jiggs and Ganon, he'd do U Tilt and then I'd BThrow with Jiggs towards him, the opponent would go towards ganon and get sucked towards the ground because of his Utilt and then they'd get hit by it.

From best to worst its (they hardly are that much different though, its still best to use them all in rotation)
UThrow
BThrow
FThrow
DThrow

Jigglypuff's grab range is wonderful and obviously you want to be doing boost grabs and pivot grabs, not really much to say about those since they are universal techniques.

But one more thing, remember that Jiggly's grabs are a wonderful damage racker.

 

[-LzR-]

Jigglypuffs Boost grab is insane

 

[rm88]

I tend to grab a lot, to the point where I'm more ground based than I should. I just wish Jiggs' pummel(uff) wasn't so freaking slow, it'd make damage racking considerably easier.

 

[Exegguter]

I'm a huge fan of her grabs. I think it are her best moves. I can't think of any good jiggs that doesn't use grabs. They rack up damage so fast and a dair + throw does 26+(depending on the pummels).

Uthrow is good for jablocks on ps1 and Luigi's mansion.

I like to dthrow when I camp/aiming for a time-out, cause the moves takes a looong time. Every little second you could take with you/frustrate your opponent with is a must.

Another thing about dthrow is, it takes the speed out of your opponent's gameplay. Like if I'm facing this hyper-*** diddy and he's playing like he's on adhd I use dthrow to slow the game/ take the speed out of the game.


Uhm yeah, deff a must for any good jiggly.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I use grab when i dair alot. Pivot Grab after AC dair. Obviously putting them off the stage is necessary... and if there is ever a ceiling, ie picto, PS1, that can lead to a jab lock.

 

[-LzR-]

Anybody feel like doing this again?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Have we done Ftilt yet? I really like it :3

 

[-LzR-]

Yes, we have done all the tilts. Feel free to ad anything about any move you want. If I find it interesting I will add it to OP. Having discussion weeks is too troublesome especially with the lack of activity here.

 

[san.]

Here are some of my opinions on certain moves.

bair
- The spacing move that retreats her hurtbox the best. It's really good for those who outprioritize Jigglypuff in situations where you can't just poke with fair because of the lingering hurtbox.

fair
- Hitting at the end of the sourspot of fair is really useful. At times it leads to grabs or rising retreating nair. Foes can retaliate but we'll always be at the defensive advantage and can punish their miss.

About both:
Both can be spaced on shield to avoid most attacks, or could be crossed over behind foes in order to prevent the nastier out of shield attacks.

Uair:
It lasts a surprisingly long time. There are times where it should be used while going at full speed underneath the opponent to make use of the lasting hitboxes. Just using it underneath them without wastes a of its potential for you to drift.

Nair:
It's ****. After sourspot fair on people, rising nair or even just nair afterwards is very reliable. Its existence can help link many more aerials for quite a bit of damage.

Nair can also be used to pressure people hanging at the ledge since it covers all of their options if they can't easily hit us with an aerial.

Dair:
Drifting between in front and behind them is very important, and grabbing afterwards *****.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Jigglypuff *****

Approved by Mink

 

[Grim Tuesday]

San, I disagree with Nair.

It's her worst aerial tied with Uair imo.

 

[Exegguter]

I disagree with you.

Nair is pretty ****. It's a sex kick It's awesome for gimping, it helps setting up jablocks, it goes trough falco's/fox' phantasm and the end (the 2nd hit or whatever you wanna call it) is so weak that it can lead into a grab/ftilt + it's out for a very long time.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Gimping, yeah, I'll give you that.

Set up into jab-lock... Hardly, jab locks are uber situational. So is the set-up into grab.

Fox/Falco's phantasm is a situational use, but sure.

Iunno, not saying it is useless (far from it), but saying it is "****" is going a touch too far imo.

 

[Noobicidal]

It's her worst aerial tied with Uair imo.

You have got to be kidding me.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Bair and fair are easily better due to being her bread & butter moves.

Dair is amazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing, combos into grabs and rest, has a large lingering hit-box... It's beautiful.

Nair and Uair are both situationally good, especially against top tiers. Look at how much DaPuffster used it in his set against Nario (I think it was Nairo...), barely at all!

 

[Noobicidal]

Dair is amazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing, combos into grabs and rest, has a large lingering hit-box... It's beautiful.

Down Air
Hits on Frame: 5-6,8-9,11-12, 14-15, 17-18, 20-21, 23-24, 26-27
Duration (All 8 hit): 73

Neutral Air
Hits on Frame (Sweetspot): 6-8
Hits on Frame (Sourspot): 9-29
Duration: 51

Nair has a larger hitbox, lingers longer, and has less cooldown. Dair to Grab isn't a true combo, and Dair only combos into Rest if the opponent trips. Rest can be powershielded otherwise.

Nair and Uair are both situationally good, especially against top tiers. Look at how much DaPuffster used it in his set against Nario (I think it was Nairo...), barely at all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGYpI0MbfYY

Are we talking about the same match? If anything, I'd like to point out the HEAVY Nair usage, the sparse Dair usage, and the fact that Drillrest failed twice in a row due to the fact that IT RELIES ON THE OPPONENT TRIPPING.

Also, where the hell was Uair?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I was going from memory, nevermind the video thing

It doesn't need to true combo, hardly anything true combos in this ****ty game. Drillrest and Drillgrab are still legit. Drillrest doesn't rely on the opponent tripping, I'm pretty sure he got one in the Brinstar match.

Nair's inability to knock the opponent away at all makes it punishable on hit. Dair doesn't have such a disadvantage.

 

[Noobicidal]

I was going from memory, nevermind the video thing

I won't, because you keep using the video to support your opinion.

It doesn't need to true combo, hardly anything true combos in this ****ty game. Drillrest and Drillgrab are still legit. Drillrest doesn't rely on the opponent tripping, I'm pretty sure he got one in the Brinstar match.

It does need to be a true combo if you're going to proclaim that Dair is an effective move due to the fact that it apparently "combos" into Grab and Rest.

As for the Brinstar match, the first kill was with Fair (with some massive West Coast DI), and the second kill was with Dash Attack. For both our sakes, don't use video evidence if you're unsure of what it actually shows.

Nair's inability to knock the opponent away at all makes it punishable on hit. Dair doesn't have such a disadvantage.

If you're referring to knockback, Dair doesn't gain any until 147%, and even then it's moderate at best.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You don't need to turn this into a super srs debate, I just want to discuss Nair's usefulness, this isn't about being right or wrong.

You can hit people with dair and weave out before they can hit you again, seems pretty difficult to punish on hit to me. Nair doesn't have enough knock-back for you to approach or cross-up with it. It's out-classed by other moves in nearly every situation.

 

[-LzR-]

Dair is a pure mindgame. The reason it combos into grab is because the opponent anticipates a follow up and shields which we grab. Sometimes they tend to use spotdodge which we can utilt, dash attack, fsmash and so on. If they decide to try to attack out of it, it's time to rest.
At least that is how I use it and it works almost all the time. It seems like a weaker version of Peaches dair to me.

@Grim: I am so happy we Puffs finally have a serious debate. It's a perfect opportunity for us all to improve our metagame and our success with Puff.

 

[Noobicidal]

You don't need to turn this into a super srs debate, I just want to discuss Nair's usefulness, this isn't about being right or wrong.

I'm not terribly serious about this debate, but I'm not just going to post baseless opinions and accusations and call it a discussion. No one gains anything from that.

You can hit people with dair and weave out before they can hit you again, seems pretty difficult to punish on hit to me.

I forgot that Jigglypuff's airspeed becomes akin to Ganon's when she uses Nair.

Nair doesn't have enough knock-back for you to approach or cross-up with it.

The fact that Dair has 0 knockback until 147% on the entire cast makes this point moot.

It's out-classed by other moves in nearly every situation.

That's an incredibly ambiguous statement that means nothing. Sweetspotted, Nair does 10 damage, which is just fine considering that Puff's aerials in general range from 6-16%. Nair is Puff's longest lasting aerial in terms of how long its hitbox is out. Nair has half of Dair's landing lag. While it really isn't a kill move, Nair is an incredible gimping tool considering all of its attributes.

How exactly is Nair outclassed then?

Dair is a pure mindgame. The reason it combos into grab is because the opponent anticipates a follow up and shields which we grab.

While this may be the case on occasion, that doesn't make it a combo.

It's a perfect opportunity for us all to improve our metagame and our success with Puff.

I'll argue more after I get some sleep.

 

[Exegguter]

^ Agreed a 100%.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

San, I disagree with Nair.

It's her worst aerial tied with Uair imo.

....
Australians

 

[the melon!!!!!]

Nair should only be used when jumping OoS imo, otherwise it's just a fair with a smaller hitbox , the only thing it's useful for is how quick the hitbox comes up. In regards to gimping, it can be SOMETIMES useful when saving a fresh fair/bair, otherwise, the aerial lagginess from the move puts you at GREAT risk if you screw up and miss.

I should really post on the puff boards more, I need to actually learn what other puffs are doing so I can appropriately counter lol, I've only played another puff once before, and that was like a year ago!

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

You don't counter puff.

You just lose.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Jiggz ditto.

FAIR BAIR FAIR BAIR FAIR BAIR FAIR BAIR
Crap I missed a rest.
Crap I missed a rest.
Crap I got rested.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[T-block]

Rest doesn't happen in Jiggs dittos unless one side gets desperate =\

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Yeah

if you miss a rest you deserve a rollout

 

[Jigglymaster]

and the fact that Drillrest failed twice in a row due to the fact that IT RELIES ON THE OPPONENT TRIPPING.

To be fair though both of those misses were just errors or my part. He never powershielded or SDI'd them. I simply just ****ed up and missed.

I played pretty badly in my set against Nario so please don't judge Jiggs on that set.

 

[-LzR-]

So what do you think about Puffs throws? What's the best one?
Yeah yeah they all suck and get the opponent pretty much in the same trajectory, but are a bit different anyways.
I am gonna say Upthrow. Forces them high in the air and it's pretty fast.
And bonus points for Dthrow for being devastating, crushing the opponents bones in the most brutal way. Almost makes me feel bad about using it, it's so gore.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Down throw is the best if you are going for a time out.

Up throw is the best if they have poor aerial options like Snake.

Against any other character you should mix them up to keep them fresh, but generally try and throw them off-stage.

 

[Noobicidal]

I'm partial to back throw for attempted gimps and such, but I'll just mix up grabs for damage otherwise.

 

[Jigglymaster]

IMO rotating throws is a bigger priroity than using a specific one for a specific situation. When I'm playing I always remember which throw I just used so that I don't use it again for a bit. At first I like to keep my options for some situational throws (Uthrow, Dthrow, and Bthrow) so I usually whip out Fthrow since its the least effective imo. Then I usually do Dthrow next, followed by either U throw or B throw.

When you compare all four throws you'll notice that they all do the same damage and have no combo potential setups. So we need to look closer at them.

Fthrow is the worst of them all, it has less knockback than the bthrow does and its only reall good use is for throw rotation.

Bthrow is for forcing your opponent off the edge. Best to choose only against characters with poor recovery. If its somebody who has no trouble recovering, then this move is only useful for throw rotation.

Dthrow is good for mind play. I remember somebody said that it'll help slow down the pace of the game because of how long it takes. That and it also pops the opponent out into the air so it has the same effect as u throw. It can somewhat stall for time and helping your partner it doubles get to you in time to combo out of your throw.

Uthrow is probably the best, its fast and gets the opponent into the air. Its also great against Snake because you can uthrow him while he's holding a grenade and you won't get hit by it while doing your throw.

While Fthrow is the worst and uthrow is probably the best, they still are hardly that much different from each other and you should use them all in rotation. Thats the best way to make use of Jigglypuff's throws.

 

[-LzR-]

Fthrow has a hitbox which can cause trouble in doubles or against Snake too =/
I agree with Usmash because it's so fast. Just boom and you are up.

Well then, what do you think about DACUS? I score many kills using it by sliding just under my opponent who jumps and uses and attack which I just dodge by sliding under them for the kill :D
And anyone use Usmash OoS?

 

[teluoborg]

Usmash OOS is bad compared to Jigg's other OOS options imo.
I mean, SH Bair/Nair/Fair OOS have better range, come out faster and while they deal less damage they have some follow up options and of course you can drift in and out while you perform them.
With that said I never tried to use it, but that may be a good option when people do ridiculously poor choices, like Marth doing a landing Dair on your shield.

Now for Dacus you're completely right, I get some Dacus kills on jumping opponents like you. Probably because no one expects Jiggs to be this fast on the ground and furthermore she flattens herself during the startup, reducing the size of her hurtbox.

 

[Exegguter]

@ lazer: you mean uthrow is so fast boom and you're up xD?


I loooooooooooooooooooove her grabs.


A little mindgame I always do and worked everytime I did it is: fthrow -> wait a lil'/foxtrot -> reversed pound. Most characters return into you (with an airdodge) and they get pounded cause pound lasts out for so long. I know it sounds weird but try it, it works.

 

[T-block]

wait, is your name pronounced "lazer"?

i've always said ell-zee-arr

I think DACUS is underused, although maybe it's something that's much less effective when the opponent is used to it. I know I certainly don't use it enough to allow my opponents to get used to it though =x