Japanese metagame?

[NonSequtur]

So I was reading the article on wobbling a while back when I noticed this:

Wobbling in Japanese tournaments
Wobbling is allowed in Japan; the Japanese metagame, however, differs significantly from those found in Europe and America, and as a result, the lack of a ban on wobbling can be attributed to the fact that it is not seen as a viable tactic, not due to its perceived "broken-ness".

and I wondered what was so different about the metagames that an infinite like wobbling wouldn't be considered controversial, because I couldn't find anything online. Addendum: How would the top players stack-up with those from the North American scene? Are there significant differences between the North American and other scenes (South America, Europe etc)?

 

[Bones0]

So I was reading the article on wobbling a while back when I noticed this:

and I wondered what was so different about the metagames that an infinite like wobbling wouldn't be considered controversial, because I couldn't find anything online. Addendum: How would the top players stack-up with those from the North American scene? Are there significant differences between the North American and other scenes (South America, Europe etc)?

I'd guess that they just mean "we don't have any really good IC mains, so there's no reason to ban wobbling".

Wobbling is largely left unbanned at US tournaments these days anyway (Evo and Apex both had it legal).

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Addendum: How would the top players stack-up with those from the North American scene? Are there significant differences between the North American and other scenes (South America, Europe etc)?

It was largely accepted that the North American metagame was vastly superior to everyone else (with the exception of Armada) from 09-12ish. I don't think many have touched on the subject in recent times, but I would say that some foreign players have caught up (Leffen, Ice, Amsa) and the skill gap is a lot closer.

 

[Bones0]

It was largely accepted that the North American metagame was vastly superior to everyone else (with the exception of Armada) from 09-12ish. I don't think many have touched on the subject in recent times, but I would say that some foreign players have caught up (Leffen, Ice, Amsa) and the skill gap is a lot closer.

No one really had any clue about Europe or Mexico. A lot of people said Javi and Tuga were better than Ken back when we first saw videos of them, but people swept them under the rug until Javi went to Apex and **** on major players. All we really knew was our skill relative to Japan, and I don't think we were so much better or anything. We just had way more players.

 

[Armada]

It was largely accepted that the North American metagame was vastly superior to everyone else (with the exception of Armada) from 09-12ish. I don't think many have touched on the subject in recent times, but I would say that some foreign players have caught up (Leffen, Ice, Amsa) and the skill gap is a lot closer.

I don't really agree.
I would have got top 30 or something according to most people and people said the same about Amsah too.
People may have changed their opinion after I went to America.

People also did not believe Javi was very good and he placed 4th on his first try in America.
So there i 3 players that on their first try placed between 2nd-4th place.

America have way more good players etc, that is a simple fact. But they did underrate severall of players from other countries for sure (overall)

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

There has been way more under performances from Europe than actual legit results. Zghetto, Remen, Overtriforce, Dahean all placed much lower than it was expected of them at Pound 4. Then we saw Amsah do much worse at Apex 2010 compared to his Pound 4 run and Overtriforce got taken out by OTG (bring back state of the fake if you namesearch pls) at some ROM?

@Bones: Captain Jack was really the only Japanese who did something in America. Didn't Bombsoldier get like 9th when he came over?

 

[JacopeX]

There has been way more under performances from Europe than actual legit results. Zghetto, Remen, Overtriforce, Dahean all placed much lower than it was expected of them at Pound 4. Then we saw Amsah do much worse at Apex 2010 compared to his Pound 4 run and Overtriforce got taken out by OTG (bring back state of the fake if you namesearch pls) at some ROM?

@Bones: Captain Jack was really the only Japanese who did something in America. Didn't Bombsoldier get like 9th when he came over?

Can the renditions from PAL to NTSC have anything to do with them? I mean, isn't that the reason the Japanese adapt so well without inconsistencies?

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Hard to say. All of the characters are better in NTSC that were nerfed for PAL so it kinda doesn't make sense that they would perform worse when they all play high tier characters. It would make more sense to say that Armada has a tougher time over here because Peach has a harder time in NTSC.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Canada's monthly tournaments and majors are largely legalizing wobbling.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Didn't Bombsoldier get like 9th when he came over?

wasn't that 3 million years after he quit? again on his first try?

It was largely accepted that the North American metagame was vastly superior to everyone else (with the exception of Armada) from 09-12ish. I don't think many have touched on the subject in recent times, but I would say that some foreign players have caught up (Leffen, Ice, Amsa) and the skill gap is a lot closer.

bro, you have no clue what youre talking about

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

bro, you have no clue what youre talking about

Feel free to enlighten me. All I saw was European after European get underwhelming results when they came over.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Europe did fine at Pound 4 and Pound 5 IIRC.

 

[NonSequtur]

Beyond just the comparative skills of the top players, as interesting as that is, is there any significant difference in playstyle between the regions (beyond those that are necessitated by the differences between PAL and NTSC)? Any focus on certain aspects of play that aren't as central in other regions? Or is it mostly homogenized?

 

[KirbyKaze]

The regions play very differently.

Europe, Canada, Japan, EC, WC, Midwest, and South all have stylistic differences and underlying general tendencies within their regions. I'd imagine if I had more time to play against the Europeans or Japanese I'd probably identify even further tendencies and nuances between the regions that Europe or Japan could be subdivided into.

 

[pikmin.org]

To whoever has said it, the logic of "we don't have any good IC's, therefore we shouldn't ban wobbling" doesn't really makes a whole lot of sense. A lack of ICs players only makes your decision on whether to ban wobbling or not less important (because it affects less people), but it shouldn't give any weight to what branch of the dichotomy that you end up choosing (ban or no ban). Because sure, NOT banning wobbling makes practically no difference if there aren't any IC mains, which is right; but then again, BANNING wobbling also makes next to no difference if there aren't any ICs players, so you can see how flawed that line of logic is.

Whether or not wobbling should be banned or not should be down to other factors; whether or not it's perceived to be 'fair', whether or not it hurts the intricacy of the game, whether it makes ice climbers broken, etc. or just whatever people think are valid reasons. Personally I'm in favour of having wobbling legal, but it should't matter.

 

[nooga]

I don't really agree.
I would have got top 30 or something according to most people and people said the same about Amsah too.
People may have changed their opinion after I went to America.

People also did not believe Javi was very good and he placed 4th on his first try in America.
So there i 3 players that on their first try placed between 2nd-4th place.

America have way more good players etc, that is a simple fact. But they did underrate severall of players from other countries for sure (overall)

One more post and you have 1337 posts. Don't waste it Armada.

 

[strawhats]

It was largely accepted that the North American metagame was vastly superior to everyone else (with the exception of Armada) from 09-12ish. I don't think many have touched on the subject in recent times, but I would say that some foreign players have caught up (Leffen, Ice, Amsa) and the skill gap is a lot closer.

I would've told you Amsah(Nihonjin), Armada, and Zgetto, Overtriforce, and Remen (maybe even Calle W and Strawhat Dahean) were all about as good as the top 10-20 players in the U.S., back in '09-'10. Ice and Leffen have most certainly caught up as well. International level of melee is strong and is getting even stronger. No one knows how good EK/Amsah would've done in the U.S. in the U.S. back in 2007/2008 a time when m2k kinda reigned supreme with some losses here and there to KDJ and PC/Chu(mostly to KDJ though). Europe has a few good ICs players Daumling, Tomber (he's probably the best ICs player in Europe at this present moment in time). As far as I remember, Japan has only had a few really good ICs player. These include, but might not be limited to(forgive the ignorance if I've left out someone important): Kei,and Cho...that's about all I can remember. Now japan's got aMSa and gucci repping them big time. Even Brazil, Chile, Mexico, and the Caribbean have competent regions although they may not be considered world powers from a competitive standpoint...there are certainly players from these regions that can compete like Aisengobay, Javi/Tuga, Eddie Mexico, Blea Gelo (i believe he's from Argentina),etc.

@Shadowpheonix: 9th at an OC3 after having retired for about a year and a half prior to the event is priy damn impressive from Bombsoldier...the way you're looking at it, aMSa getting 9th at Apex 2014 would be considered under-performing, but we all know that's a lie.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

I would've told you Amsah(Nihonjin), Armada, and Zgetto, Overtriforce, and Remen (maybe even Calle W and Strawhat Dahean) were all about as good as the top 10-20 players in the U.S., back in '09-'10. Ice and Leffen have most certainly caught up as well. International level of melee is strong and is getting even stronger. No one knows how good EK/Amsah would've done in the U.S. in the U.S. back in 2007/2008 a time when m2k kinda reigned supreme with some losses here and there to KDJ and PC/Chu(mostly to KDJ though). Europe has a few good ICs players Daumling, Tomber (he's probably the best ICs player in Europe at this present moment in time). As far as I remember, Japan has only had a few really good ICs player. These include, but might not be limited to(forgive the ignorance if I've left out someone important): Kei,and Cho...that's about all I can remember. Now japan's got aMSa and gucci repping them big time. Even Brazil, Chile, Mexico, and the Caribbean have competent regions although they may not be considered world powers from a competitive standpoint...there are certainly players from these regions that can compete like Aisengobay, Javi/Tuga, Eddie Mexico, Blea Gelo (i believe he's from Argentina),etc.

@Shadowpheonix: 9th at an OC3 after having retired for about a year and a half prior to the event is priy damn impressive from Bombsoldier...the way you're looking at it, aMSa getting 9th at Apex 2014 would be considered under-performing, but we all know that's a lie.

As much as I love Dahean, he got 33rd at Pound 4 aka just barely made bracket so I would not consider him top 20. Rest of the Europeans got around 17th so I guess I may have undervalued their placings, but still not at the top level of the 09-10 US players.

aMSa is definitely way more impressive than bombsoldier's run. Apex was way more stacked and falco is so much better than yoshi.