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It's Hopeless

CT Chia

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Consider this an extension of my ROBlog, but a topic separate enough deserving of it's own topic.

It has to be done, I'm officially dropping ROB in the Meta Knight match up. It's impossible. We know it's the worst matchup, yet some have said it's still possible for ROB to have the tools to win. Flat out: no it's not. Yes, you can beat MKs that don't know the matchup. Fortunately, there are so few ROBs out there, that barely any MKs know the matchup.

I've played against plenty MKs and practiced with those like M2k (lives right near me yay) and I know what I should be doing and what I shouldn't be. However at the tourney I was at today it was a big eye opener. I had to face ksizzle, an amazing MK from NJ, but unlike most, knows the ROB matchup better than any other MK. He gets to play with a crewmate practically everyday that mains ROB. I have to face him in tourney, and first match right away I already tell that I'm screwed. He knew how to punish everything ROB can do. He knew all of the moves I was going to do, all my options, and how to beat it at MK. I was completely hopeless. I got 3 stocked all in probably like a minute and a half. I have the video on my laptop, i'll try to have it tomorrow.

There was no reason at all to go ROB next match. There was no way I was going to win. I've been practicing some Wario as a secondary, so I decided to try it out. I was practicing him the night before, but I've never used Wario in tourney before. I don't know how to CP and stuff with him yet. So I just went BF with Wario and went for it. I obviously still lost, he's a great player, but at least I was almost able to get him down to one stock this time with very little practice invested. I was able to outprioritize all of the moves that absolutely destroy ROB. upB, nado, all those shenanigans can be beat by dair if used right. Glide attack? I was able to time a haft to get the appropriate super armor so I was fine and slammed into him for the kill.

When's the last time you saw a ROB win a noteable tourney? Probably like a year ago with Overswarm back when no one knew what the hell a ROB was and he was still top tier. I'm at a turning point, and it's interesting as it happened to me in Melee about a year ago. I mained Samus in Melee, a mid tier with no TRUE potential to completely win. Melee isn't completely the same situation as the right amount of tech skill and smarts can overcome any lesser opponent, but this simply isn't the same for Brawl. You're only going to see the same characters win big tourneys. Mostly MK and Snake, but also your Warios, Diddys, and idk... maybe that's it? (Except for some rare situations). I had always wanted to second a better character in Melee, I tried Falco, I tried Marth, I tried Sheik. Above all I mainly stuck to Sheik, but I would play her for a bit, get annoyed and go back to Samus and be back at step 1. Eventually I just gathered up the will power to do so, and played ONLY Sheik for so long that she became my best character, and was able to do what my Samus wasn't. I was then able to harness the power of both, while I can rely on Sheik for most top tier matchups, I can still counterpick Samus on Falcos (which I believe Samus does better than Sheik on), and possibly Fox as well. But when I go to Sheik for the Falcons, Marths, etc, I feel like I'm playing at my best potential compared to before. I have to do the same for Wario, no questions asked.

What is the point of spending money traveling to tourneys, paying money to enter tourneys, all to lose. With MK as a complete bracket stop for ROB, there is no sense in wasting money like this. Do or die.

Until MK is banned, there is no need to play ROB against him. It's a death sentance. I'm tired of the extreme uphill battle it is to win in the matchup, which I'm believing is close to 80-20 now at it's easiest in the top level of play. I'm tired of having n00bs counterpick Rainbow Cruise with MK on me (happened to me today, still won the set though), I'm tired of top players who are for the ban who hate MK go as far as to counterpick him to win (Happened today with Wes).

So by all means, start learning a better character, or you won't come out on top. It's that simple. I hate to say it, I love ROB, but it has to happen. I'm not dropping ROB, but I have to start putting a lot of work into Wario if I want to achieve anything. And it doesn't have to be Wario, it can be Snake, Diddy, hell, it could be MK. It just so happens that Wario fits my style better and is also one of my fav characters in the game with ROB and Sonic.
 

demonictoonlink

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Cool read, I guess. Well written and all...but...I dunno...ROB definitely needs a second but when I apply it to myself...I just don't know... I know TL's matchup against MK is horrible and Snake is pretty bad, but I'll just stick to him...Who am I kidding; I CP GaW ^^
If MK is really your trouble, go Snake, Diddy, Falco, IC (eh) or Wario. Good luck with that
 

Landry

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I'm having a similar dilemma. I try picking up Snake or MK to fight MK, but then I realize that if I do get good with them what's the point in staying ROB. A decent MK beats a good ROB. I'm trying not to drop ROB, but it's tough.
 

Landry

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Shugo beat OS (again but this time in a MM) a day or few ago.

Pick up Sonic. :p Apparently he can win against MK.
It was yesterday. And OS came back to beat him in actual bracket play. Shugo actually doesn't do well against MK, just OS.
 

stingers

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I think I really just need to see the video. Seeing as how I've yet to play Ksizzle and Chibo has I shouldn't post my opinions on the matter until I see exactly how the match went.
 

SuSa

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It was yesterday. And OS came back to beat him in actual bracket play. Shugo actually doesn't do well against MK, just OS.

So Shugo counters OS like FOW counters Tyrant and I forgot whom counters I forgot whom?


This was all the information I got:

xxKingChaosxx (9:28:26 PM): shugo got 5th outta 80 something
xxKingChaosxx (9:28:29 PM): all sonic
xxKingChaosxx (9:28:59 PM): beat Champs Falco/MK beat Nopes snake beat MachingunNorms snake and OS in money matches
xxKingChaosxx (9:29:26 PM): shugo beat judges rob in the crew battle and took a stock off anther
xxKingChaosxx (9:29:32 PM): judge*
 

cutter

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Now you know how I feel when I have to play against Snake and Marth as G&W.

Honestly G&W is in the exact same boat as ROB. Bad matchups against top tier characters will always hold him back and you just need to accept the fact that you have stupid uphill battles against those characters.
 

CT Chia

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I actually lost to a Sonic today, I'm actually not angry though, more inspired.

I trash talked the hell out of Sonic after I destroyed Malcom's Sonic at Apex, and since all I heard was that Malcom's Sonic is amazing, and shows Sonic's potential bla bla bla lol. So today I MM'd Wes' Sonic (the old Samus main from Melee), and I just barely lost each match. He played really well, and I even got to see a couple neat techniques that I didn't know Sonic could do.

No johns though, Sonic is still terrible lol.

I'll try to get the match up tomorrow (Sunday). I know I could have played better, DI'd a little better, etc. But no matter what options I tried there was nothing I could do.
 

HugS™

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While I don't agree with your Samus theory for my own reasons, I do completely agree with your ROB stance.

It's not even a matter of ability, more a matter of ROB's potential. I mean you can just look at the physics of the game and ROB's role within those physics, and deduce how far ROB can really go. You can do that without even knowing how to play the character if you study the game hard enough.

It's those **** aerials IMO. It turns ROB into a character of prediction and not reaction. Therefore, in this game, if you do not have the tools to react appropriately to a given scenario, you're doomed to fail unless you are psychic and can predict everything correctly. I mean, the most useful of ROB's aerials, the ones that can be used for reactive purposes, are the same ones that have landing lag (Uair/Fair). I mean wtf is that all about? Your projectiles also have the same terrible pre-lag and after-lag. It's like they went to great lengths to overbalance the character, but they neglected to do the same with the rest of the cast.

There is plenty of good in ROB though. The aerials, although terribly slow, do offer great range and varied usability. There are so many ways to use a ROB nair/bair. His up B is ridiculously good, except vs MK. If it wasn't for the few extremely good benefits of his moveset, he'd be far lower on the tier list when compared to characters with less of a cieling.

And that is what it really comes down to.
ROB has a definite ceiling... although a very high one. SO it's both ROB's blessing and curse. When the metagames of other characters catch up to where ROB's high ceiling can take him, ROB will be left behind.

As opposed to Samus, who I honestly felt had no ceiling, just an extremely steep learning curve. I can't even count the amount of times I ran into a situation where I knew precisely what to do, but my d*** ROB didn't have a move to do anything about the situation. While my Melee samus always had a tool for every situation I faced. It was me who stopped me from taking 1st @ nationals, Samus just made it hard, not impossible. ROB makes it impossible.

I think Overswarm put it best a while back. He said something along the lines of ROB being best as a counter character. A character used to take advantage of ideal situations, and only those ideal situations. He is not a character to be advanced to conquer those uphill match ups. He's not built for it. He's built to **** that falco on Frigate, or camp that Ice Climber on Rainbow Cruise. He's not made to adapt to any situation he encounters, and I say it's because of his ceiling/limits. As people figure out ROB, that high ceiling becomes less of an advantage to us all.
 

Syde7

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I agree with HugS and Chibo, and that's saying a lot. Saying a lot not because I don't normally agree with them, but because I was one who stuck steadfast to ROB, even in the MK matchup.

I agree completely with the physics & design argument that HugS mentioned. Everything about the game's engine, and the design of both ROB and MK and their respective movesets plays into the hands of it being an inordinately difficult matchup, so much to the point that ROB is essentially non-viable in it.

There has been MANY times (as HugS said) that I said mentally/instinctively the correct course of action in the matchup, but ROB simply had NO options designed for that course of action. And, that leads to wasted opportunities. In tough matchups and high level play, a player can't afford to have wasted opportunities.

I agree about the definite ceiling, though only to an extent that there is obviously only so much that he can do given the physics system. We are *very* close to that ceiling. There may be some odd animation property we're overlooking, or some sort of AT which can exploit those physics- but even then it won't be groundbreaking or shoot him up the ranks as one of the 3-5 best chars in the game. In essence, we will be stuck with employing a limited number of options in as many ways as we can; be they effective or not.

In all honesty, I think that ROB has to be played as a COMPLETE ROB in order to be effective. Unlike every other tourney-viable character who has multiple strong facets of their games that can be employed singularly to a high degree of effectiveness (Snake can camp with nades/c4 practically all day, DDD can theoretically rely ONLY on grabs and a U-tilt/B-air to finish, MK has a host of options, Wario can in theory rack up 60% damage and aircamp for a half-waft) ROB has no such luxury. There is no single facet of ROBs game that can win him a match, let along a tournament.

You can't camp the entire time, bc the lack of killing power enables players to catch up and erase three minutes of camping in forty-five seconds.

You can't stay entirely grounded because of the noted blind-spot at the 2 o'clock, slightly less than average boxing game, and very punishable tilt whiffs .

You can't stay in the air because of aerials with ending lag, high start-up/cool down, and the blind spot below

You can't be a tank as you are not heavy enough, have a sub-par momentum cancel, and your recovery is vulnerable.

You can't be a gimp machine because gimping only*really* works on certain chars, with proper set-up and reading and the set-ups are so few that you'll only be able to get ONE per match.

If you step back and look at it, matchups that are in ROBs favor allow him to abuse/overuse 2 facets of the above list (and more I've forgotten/neglected).In close matchups, ROB must rely on more of them in varying quantities. In disadvantageous matchups, ROB must employ ALL of them, even those which are considered useless for the sole reason of sacrificing a period of effectiveness and getting punished for it, in order to continue to make what works...work.

The whole point of that little mini-rant is that unlike a LOT of other chars, ROB *has* to employ EVERYTHING in his arsenal. Even in situations where some are un-needed, employ them anyway to get into the habit. Because ROB has to use *everything* he has, it makes things a LOT harder. You have to be smarter, as more pairings of "situation/move" are presented; and you must realize what IS a good "scenario/move" pairing and what isn't. Many players are just not ready to take the effort to calculatingly employ *everything* a character has to offer in order to win. But, that's not the character's fault.

To relate the above to the topic at hand, MK is able to shut down *every* facet of ROB's game to varying degrees. There is no other character (ZSS w/ infinite notwithstanding) that can do that, or do it as effectively. The result is the sum of ROBs overall effectiveness is far less than MK's.

I like to think about matchups as mathematical equations. On one side you have ROB, and on the other side the opponent. Each characters moves are placed in parenthesis on the appropriate side. In the parenthesis is a number, an "effectiveness" number that represents that move's effectiveness in the character's current metagame. When tabulating this, think of ALL the applications and set-ups for that move. Assign a weight to it as "effective". Initially, this starts out in a vacuum, inasmuch that it isn't compared to another character secifically... just how effective it is, in general how important it is to ROB's gameplay as it relates to the character, and as the character relates to the game itself. Do the same with the other side. That equation will give you the "base" of each char, indepnedant of one another

Now, start adding +'s and -'s depending on if that move's effectiveness is accentuated or detracted from in the matchup, with the number you + or - based on the degree it is accentuated or detracted from. You perform the same calculation both sides. If ROB's F-tilt gets a +3 boost in effectiveness, then whatever it was on the other char that it minimized gets a -3 . At the end of it all, you add up each side and you have the basic "character equation".

No other character presents such a lopsided equation as MK.
 

Mag!c

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If it's kill or be killed, I might as well switch I guess. I love ROB, but the cold hard facts just state that he is not up there.
 

Emblem Lord

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lol.

You guys are just catching up to a truth that the Marth boards realized **** near a year ago.

If your character loses to the best character in the game then it's GGPO. That character might as well not even exist.
 

JCaesar

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It has to be done, I'm officially dropping ROB in the Meta Knight match up. It's impossible.
Welcome to ... what every other ROB player figured out about 8 months ago :p

Didn't you yourself make an extensive topic about how the matchup wasn't that bad just a few months ago?
 

jjvirus

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...

I think you all are basing this on your own shortcomings rather then "cold, hard facts."
How can a good R.O.B. like yourself say that we;re being biased towards the Mk matchup when it's a "cold hard fact" that he ***** us until our fuel tank bleeds? Is NC really that out of the loop that they don't have a single decent Metaknight for you to play so you can understand that we suck in this matchup? -_- Not trying to be an ***, I'm just extremely puzzled on how someone of your skill level can't see the huge disadvantage we're at.


On another note, good **** Chibo, Dull, and HugS. I agree completely <3
 

Mr.E

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I like RaZer's post but I'm going to respond to you people pissing and moaning in general.

ROB's only really bad match-up in the (current) top tier is MK and maybe that match-up alone is enough of a reason to main someone else. After all, everyone knows MK is the best character in the game and most of the top players play him. A majority of those who don't play Snake, so perhaps we should also mention him. If you're at a large disadvantage against Snake, such as G&W, that's another character to avoid maining.

But how does Dedede continue to "avoid the Noid" and keep succeeding? He's still third in Ankoku's tournament results list and still considered a borderline top tier character in general. Though it might be as bad for Dedede as it is for ROB, he still fares poorly against MK. He also suffers against Diddy and Falco, two other top tier characters that ROB doesn't have trouble against. Despite attempts to advance Dedede's metagame, such as the Buuman Trap, it's really just a new application of one of the few tools he has. He has little beyond his grab grab, especially his DThrow chain, and BAir spam off-stage. The only other notable thing he has is a cheap suicide kill which top players shouldn't fall for at this stage of the game.

By all accounts, Dedede should be even worse off than ROB, yet is not. Maybe he is very similar to how you guys have described ROB and Dedede's simple-but-effective tools just make his "ceiling" a little higher. Maybe having a slightly better (but still bad) match-up with MK is worth having additional bad match-ups against other top tiers, though I doubt that's the case since his MK match-up is still "bad enough" to all but guarantee a set loss between top players. All I think is that you guys john too much. :embarrass You guys are pathetic. Hell, why play anybody but MK, Snake, or maaaaybe Ice Climbers?

I might also argue that having definite "ability" is better than merely having "potential" but that's for another time. Just as an example, I would suspect that Diddy eventually starts going back down the tier list a bit once other people figure out how to fight his banana game as well as he uses it. Unlike Falco or Olimar camping, you can actually use Diddy's projectiles against him and he doesn't have any hard "abilities," like a chain grab or godtilts, to fall back on.

What is the point of spending money traveling to tourneys, paying money to enter tourneys, all to lose. With MK as a complete bracket stop for ROB, there is no sense in wasting money like this. Do or die.
I play Smash for the social aspect. It's no more of a "waste" than spending that money on a WoW subscription, buying the latest Madden or FPS of choice, going to the movies with some friends, whatever. It's entertainment, competition, fun. One could get by on playing friendlies, I suppose, but that can't emulate everything that envelops a serious tourney environment. (It also only works if you live in a Smash hotspot to begin with. No Smashfests where I live and it ain't a major college town!)

It's also kinda cool seeing how far I've come in this game. One of the first fairly good players I ever played back in October, at my first major tournament, easily three-stocked me. This past weekend, I took my first game off him and was || close to winning the set. And hey, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be taking money over Lain, Anther, Judge any time soon whether I played ROB or MK or Ganondorf. *shrug* I'm not worried about it.

If your character loses to the best character in the game then it's GGPO. That character might as well not even exist.
Every character loses to MK. :rolleyes: Marth's match-up with him isn't that bad anyway. The only upper-tier match-ups that are bad enough to be worth mentioning are MK > ROB, Snake > G&W, and Dedede's cumulation of crappy match-ups. Maybe Kirby or some such has a really bad match-up I don't know about either but what do I care?

Both the Marth and ROB boards are two of the whiniest bunch of upper tier character mains around. :[
 

Sudai

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Yeah...I've known this for ages.. Mostly for the reasons above.. Glad to see you finally realized it Chibo.

Stongers, you're just being blind if you think ROB really has the options and the capabilities to even challenge MK, much less beat him, when players of an even skill level play.
 

Steel

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Every character loses to MK. :rolleyes: Marth's match-up with him isn't that bad anyway. The only upper-tier match-ups that are bad enough to be worth mentioning are MK > ROB, Snake > G&W, and Dedede's cumulation of crappy match-ups. Maybe Kirby or some such has a really bad match-up I don't know about either but what do I care?

Both the Marth and ROB boards are two of the whiniest bunch of upper tier character mains around. :[
65:35 - 70:30 isn't that bad? >_> MK is the ceiling that prevents Marth from ever doing anything note-worthy, always has been.

And we aren't whining, just being realistic.
 

CT Chia

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Great reply Hugs. Yea, that's why I said Melee was different, I was just trying to use it as an example as I forced myself to learn Sheik enough so that both my Samus and Sheik we're equally good enough and up to practice because I hated the uphill battle against Marth and Falcon mainly.

ROB isn't a bad character. Honestly without MK I probably wouldn't try to learn another character. It's just when MK becomes a flat out bracket block, where when you come against a MK player (which tourneys are like 50% of anyway) that even slightly knows the matchup, your doomed to lose or to face the most uphill battle possible. The MK has to suck to not be good. The thing that really bothers me the most is ROB's atrocious falling speed mixed with no good move to protect him while going down.

The whole balancing idea was a really cool look on it by Hugs.

I play Smash for the social aspect. It's no more of a "waste" than spending that money on a WoW subscription, buying the latest Madden or FPS of choice, going to the movies with some friends, whatever. It's entertainment, competition, fun. One could get by on playing friendlies, I suppose, but that can't emulate everything that envelops a serious tourney environment. (It also only works if you live in a Smash hotspot to begin with. No Smashfests where I live and it ain't a major college town!)
As do I, but let's not kid ourselves. Maybe there aren't as many tourneys where you live in the midwest or something to taunt you, idk. But here there are tourneys every weekend either in my state or in a neighbooring one that everyone goes to.
If you have the luxury of driving to a tourney:
Chippin' In For Gas: $5
Venue Fee: $5
Doubles: $10
Singles: $10
Food that day: $5 minimum normally

Total - $35

If you have to rely on public trans then add like $5 to that (depends on the sit, some more, some less) for $40

It's so much money to be spending at every tournament for years on so many weekends. I consider myself to be pretty well off with money personally but I can't even imagine how much I would have for other things if I didn't attend so many tourneys. Or *gasp* I switched to a different character and started making a profit, which I feel I am completely capable of doing.
 

CJTHeroofTime

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I know several of you have said it, but some of you don't seem to get it. It's not really an issue of how good the MK is. It's an issue of how well the MK knows the matchup.

Also, Mr. E, you're making it sound like we all want to quit ROB because of this matchup. What everyone (or at least a majority, from what I have read) is saying, they want to learn a secondary for this matchup, not quit the character altogeter.
 

Syde7

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I couldn't quit ROB, even if I wanted to. Even though a lot of people consider him boring, I really have fun playing as him. As CJT said, I want to learn another char for *this* and maybe 1-2 other matchups, and others just because they're a bit fun.

And, like CJT (and many others) have said, is that its based entirely on how well the MK knows the matchup, providing that there is roughly equal skill between the two players. If you come across an MK who thinks they are "too cool for school" just because they main MK and don't put much effort into learning the matchups then yes, MKs aren't *THAT* bad. But, come across someone who studies the game and has practiced the matchup and knows it inside and out, knows what works and what doesn't work in most situations (doesn't even have to be *all* situations) and there is *very* little ROB can do to even make a match out of it.

But, I really like ROB and I want to take him as far as I can, for no other reason than I like the character. It has nothing to do with winning matches, going to tournaments and doing well, that's not what motivates me to stick with ROB and to try to do the best I can with him; its simply the fact that ROB "fits" me. Kind of like... a symbiotic relationship.

Also, post 1000
 

Teh Future

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*hands everyone a tissue*

I beat a MK this weekend as ROB. Know why? Yeah, he wasnt a good MK, and thats why I won. Because I was better than him.

The only ceiling is your own skill level. THAT is what determines who wins in a tournament set. ROB has all the nessacary tools in order to beat MK, like most characters in the game.

Im sorry Chibo, but how about instead of saying omg this matchup is unwinnable you actually ackowledge the fact that ksissle is better than you and has more knowledge of the matchup rather than complaining the matchup is broken and basically saying his win doesnt mean anything.

You know why you dont see any ROBs beating any of the top metaknights? Because there are no ROB players that are on the same skill level as M2K, Dojo, Judge, ect.

Its really as simple as that.
 

Darth Waffles

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While I completely agree with HugS's (and then Dull's) first posts, daaaayyyum, I <3 Mr. E.

You think ROB has a bad matchup? Try playing a low tier. They've got matchups all the way down to 95:5. Wow. Sure, there are endless waves of MK players who shouldn't beat you but do anyway. We all just need to get better in general, learn to beat the player as well as the character, and just get better in general on things that cost us such as spacing and baiting badly. Learn to recognize patterns early. It's been brought up already: When's the last time we've seen ROB win a notable large-scale tournament? Maybe the answer has something to do with this: When's the last time we've seen a notable ROB enter a large-scale tournament? Maybe if we spent less time finding the next costume hack for ROB and more time practicing with others, we'd get better at this matchup, or just smash in general.

Edit: Inb4lolHolyenterslarge-scaletournamentslol
Yeah, and he's said himself that the only two players that can consistently take sets off of him are a Snake player and an IC player. No MKs there =\
 

stingers

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You all seriously need to stop crying. Get better, the MK matchup is not unwinnable. Maybe I'm just too **** naive :laugh: or maybe I'm not wasting my time crying about how my character has a disadvantaged matchup or two.
 

Deadweight

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After yet another missed tournament, I havent been able to try my upgraded RoB on some scrub MKs.
However, I can say that I do think that in high level play, the fight is un-winnable. Period =/
Skill level does matter but about as much as character matchups in this game.

For example:
I saw an Olimar main, pick pikachu to CP a fox.
A 80-20 fight
The Fox 3 stocked him
why? Because the fox was much better than the pikachu.
If the pikachu was at a similar level of skill than the fox. The fox would of gotten 3 stocked easy =/.
------------
Similar situation:
Last gigs i went to , a guy Cped MK after i 2 stocked his diddy on FD .
i got 2 stocked on battlefield, then again on smashville.
I MMed him later Diddy vs MK beat him 2-0 =/
 

TEECO

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
743
Location
ORLANDO FL
I fought Afrothundah's MK in a friendly yesterday at Gigabits.
I had literally like no options.. he knew exactly what I was going to do, and everything he did out cancled what I was doing. Plus, you can't even camp a good MK player.

I know hes like 2nd on the FL power rankings but I still have no hope for the matchup.

I'm officially picking up Snake as my secondary.
Snake is a fvcking bada$$
 

lord karn

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
4,324
Location
Raleigh, NC
You all seriously need to stop crying. Get better, the MK matchup is not unwinnable. Maybe I'm just too **** naive :laugh: or maybe I'm not wasting my time crying about how my character has a disadvantaged matchup or two.
Stingers, I thought I showed you why that matchup is dumb at Rawfuls'. ROB has 0 options if MK dair camps and tornadoes afterwards. Like, it doesn't even matter if you predict him, he can reactively beat you without ever being threatened by anything more than a laser.
 

Mr.E

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Messages
1,520
Location
Lima, Ohio
DAir camp -> Tornado spam gets beat by being patient and timing FSmash well. The match-up is *** but that isn't one of the reasons why.
 

stingers

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
26,796
Location
Raleigh, NC
karn, i beat you at rawfuls. after we got back from the gas station? it doesn't really matter until we play in tournament, anyway. i really am not afraid of the MK matchup as much as most people seem to be. guess i'm just naive @.@
 

lord karn

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
4,324
Location
Raleigh, NC
My MK sucked then, I just thought I showed you what I was supposed to be doing, even if I was messing it up constantly.
 

stingers

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
26,796
Location
Raleigh, NC
and there are still things you can do to get around it...it's theorycraft anyway, i'll be glad to play you so I can either be proven right or wrong. either way, good for me o.o
 

Teh Future

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
4,870
Location
St. Louis, MO
For example:
I saw an Olimar main, pick pikachu to CP a fox.
A 80-20 fight
The Fox 3 stocked him
why? Because the fox was much better than the pikachu.
If the pikachu was at a similar level of skill than the fox. The fox would of gotten 3 stocked easy =/.
At the last midwest-west circuit event Zenton nearly beat Anther's Pikachu on battlefield.

Basically: no

lol at saying dair camping > tornado works on ROB. I watched a Link player beat that yesterday in tournament. camping in the air as MK does not work.
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
24,416
Location
Philadelphia
You all seriously need to stop crying. Get better, the MK matchup is not unwinnable. Maybe I'm just too **** naive :laugh: or maybe I'm not wasting my time crying about how my character has a disadvantaged matchup or two.
It's probably because you live in NC.
 
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