Isaac for Smash Ultimate - #GoldenSunday Shines Again!

RandomAce

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How many other first party IP’s are there that aren’t represented yet? I’m talking about IP’s that have multiple games and sold some decently big numbers.

Other than Golden Sun the only other big one that comes to my mind is Advance Wars (which is an amazing series as well). Maybe Custom Robo? But I’ve never played those games.
Aside from the first two, I would say Rhythm Heaven as well. At least Rhythm Heaven and Golden Sun got some notable amounts of content, but Advance Wars got the short end of the stick.

ARMS could also be another big series, because it sold about as much as those three with a single title, and Astral Chains could reach there too (but we have to wait and see).

Those five are probably on the top of my list of new first party franchises to include.
 

Dinoman96

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How many other first party IP’s are there that aren’t represented yet? I’m talking about IP’s that have multiple games and sold some decently big numbers.

Other than Golden Sun the only other big one that comes to my mind is Advance Wars (which is an amazing series as well). Maybe Custom Robo? But I’ve never played those games.
One notable exclusion is Startropics, which had two installments on NES.

...problem is, said installments never actually came out in Japan. Hence why it's never acknowledged in Smash in any meaningful form.

EDIT: Oh, you mean purely playable representation. I'd say ARMS and Rhythm Heaven.
 
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Rhythm Heaven
Star Tropics (it fits criteria but likely won't happen because never released in Japan IIRC)
Chibi-Robo
Panel de Pon
Box Boy
Pushmo
Dillon's Rolling Western
Nintendogs + cats (DOG gets ruff!)
I don’t know what the sales are for most of those series, but when I think of a series that sold well and had a successful line of games Golden Sun is probably at the top of that list with maybe the exception being RH.

So hopefully when Sakurai/Nintendo are looking at first party IP’s to possibly include as a fighter in the future GS will be near the top of the list.
 

MeatOfJustice

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It would probably be something like ont_robin, since the Japanese name of Golden Sun is "Oogon no Taiyou", and unless my theory of the whole series being launched as Golden Sun worldwide is correct, they'd label him with the Japanese name.
I believe Smash uses English names for character files, that's how the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak was debunked.
 

Ura

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Rhythm Heaven
Star Tropics (it fits criteria but likely won't happen because never released in Japan IIRC)
Chibi-Robo
Panel de Pon
Box Boy
Pushmo
Dillon's Rolling Western
Nintendogs + cats (DOG gets ruff!)
*completely omits Advance Wars*

Son, i'm disappoint. :c

As an aside, I believe the 4 biggest omissions among Nintendo series not in Smash are Advance Wars for it's legacy, Golden Sub/Rhythm Heaven for being million sellers, and ARMS given it was a recent semi-success.
 

ZelDan

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*completely omits Advance Wars*

Son, i'm disappoint. :c

As an aside, I believe the 4 biggest omissions among Nintendo series not in Smash are Advance Wars for it's legacy, Golden Sub/Rhythm Heaven for being million sellers, and ARMS given it was a recent semi-success.
Advance Wars was already brought up by the person who asked the question, which is why I didn't add it or Custom Robo
 

Gioka

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I know is not popular between more hard-core gamers but Girl's Mode/Style savvy could also be in that list, it has various games, has been good on sales and it got a installment not too long ago. In fact I am expecting a new game to come to switch eventually
 

Ura

Advance Wars is the new Mother 3
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Advance Wars was already brought up by the person who asked the question, which is why I didn't add it or Custom Robo
Ahh my B. I only saw the post on this page. In that case...

Son, i'm proud. :)
One notable exclusion is Startropics, which had two installments on NES.
Man shoutout to Startropics which hasn't had a release in 25 years.

I dread to think what it would be like if Golden Sun and/or Advance Wars were out for 25 years. I mean it's bad enough they've been gone for a decade but over twice that amount?

I can't possibly fathom it being 2033-2035 and us still asking for new installments in these franchises. It would drive me to insanity.

Startropics fans got it real bad yo no lie.
 
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Burb

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The Hero's filename in the site is dq_hero, this was to avoid problems with anything else that has the filename that is just hero.

Isaac's Japanese name is Robin which was shared with Robin's English name, so if he is part of a fighters pass season 2, his Japanese filename in the site likely should be goldensun_robin.
Uhhh.....

FE Robin's Japanese name is Reflet. If they use English names, it's Robin and Isaac. If they use Japanese names, it's Reflet and Robin. There's no feasible way for the names to clash unless they inexplicably use English for one and Japanese for the other, which would basically be a case of them going out of their way to create an issue for themselves.
 
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Ahh my B. I only saw the post on this page. In that case...

Son, i'm proud. :)

Man shoutout to Startropics which hasn't had a release in 25 years.

I dread to think what it would be like if Golden Sun and/or Advance Wars were out for 25 years. I mean it's bad enough they've been gone for a decade but over twice that amount?

I can't possibly fathom it being 2033-2035 and us still asking for new installments in these franchises. It would drive me to insanity.

Startropics fans got it real bad yo no lie.
Poor Mike Jones never even got a spirit when we got a spirit for an extremely niche Japanese exclusive ad out of all things
 

N3ON

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To be fair, Startropics could easily be Sakurai's WTF Retro character in the future so I'd say predicting his inclusion is impossible as a result. Same with Takamari and Excitebiker
Regional exclusive characters seem to be a dealbreaker to Sakurai these days. Unlike most "fan rules", he's has basically said as much. Thus I'm not holding my breath for Mike Jones, or Takamaru, or Lip, or any of those guys. :/

Though unlike Mr. Jones, at least Nintendo still acknowledges Takamaru exists. -_-;
 
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Tetiro

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Regional exclusive characters seem to be a dealbreaker to Sakurai these days. Unlike most "fan rules", he's has basically said as much. Thus I'm not holding my breath for Mike Jones, or Takamaru, or Lip, or any of those guys. :/

Though unlike Mr. Jones, at least Nintendo still acknowledges Takamaru exists. -_-;
Did he actually say that? Do you have a source? I'm actually curious to read it.
 

Hydewell

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A bit sad nothing related to Golden Sun was mentioned in the last E3, but I was expecting that so I guess it's okay. If Camelot is doing the inevitable Mario Golf game, we will know it in the hypothetical january/february direct (at the latest at e3 but I hope not); they already have the characters models and the engine to do it more quickly.
Regarding the reveals, I was happy and sad at the same time. B&K was a dream for a lot of people and was asked for several entries, and Dragon Quest has a strong relationship with Nintendo (unlike Joker >->). But seeing how B&K was selected, considering they were fan favourite in a lot of polls and fan requests in every Smash entry, like Isaac (well, except in Melee obviously), and he still didn't enter in the roster and being relegated as an Assist Trophy again (the only "fan rule" that need to be broken) doesn't give me any hope for this entry, even if they do a second season pass with only 1st party characters...
How many other first party IP’s are there that aren’t represented yet? I’m talking about IP’s that have multiple games and sold some decently big numbers.

Other than Golden Sun the only other big one that comes to my mind is Advance Wars (which is an amazing series as well). Maybe Custom Robo? But I’ve never played those games.
In term of sales, I guess that Rhythm Heaven, Wave Race, Paper Mario and Style Boutique/Savvy are bigger than Golden Sun (and maybe Captain Toad too). In terms of legacy, Wars would be the first one, and Golden Sun and all of the above would be the next ones. And in terms of popularity, I guess GS and Wars would be tied (Wars tends to be more demanded despite its fanbase is less louder than the GS one) with similar numbers to other franchises.

Did he actually say that? Do you have a source? I'm actually curious to read it.
I don't know if he stated that exactly, but at least we know that Sakurai wouldn't have included Lucas if he had known Mother 3 didn't left Japan (https://twitter.com/allsourcegaming/status/728252930382422016 ); and Takamaru wasn't chosen in Sm4sh for his lack of popularity (I guess he was refering to the West audience) (https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/03/22/mewtwo-dlc-takamaru-and-sakurais-nico-nico-appearance/ ).
 

Guynamednelson

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If Camelot is doing the inevitable Mario Golf game, we will know it in the hypothetical january/february direct (at the latest at e3 but I hope not); they already have the characters models and the engine to do it more quickly.
Mario Golf is still gonna be more work for less profit than MT Aces. They don't have a Wii U game to take assets from unlike Tennis, and even if they did they would still have to spend time creating new golf courses.
 
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I don't know if he stated that exactly, but at least we know that Sakurai wouldn't have included Lucas if he had known Mother 3 didn't left Japan (https://twitter.com/allsourcegaming/status/728252930382422016 ); and Takamaru wasn't chosen in Sm4sh for his lack of popularity (I guess he was refering to the West audience) (https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/03/22/mewtwo-dlc-takamaru-and-sakurais-nico-nico-appearance/ ).
Well, at least Takamaru's game is playable in the West these days. All that's left is for his fans to campaign for him more seriously. And ignore the folk complaining about swords.
 
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Mario Golf is still gonna be more work for less profit than MT Aces. They don't have a Wii U game to take assets from unlike Tennis, and even if they did they would still have to spend time creating new golf courses.
Also it doesn't help that the last Mario Golf game sold worse than the last Golden Sun.
 

N3ON

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Did he actually say that? Do you have a source? I'm actually curious to read it.
I believe so, but I can't go digging right now, so I guess the sources Hydewell provided are the closest off of which to go. Take it with a grain of salt I suppose, but contextually, he definitely appears against including region-exclusives.

Also it doesn't help that the last Mario Golf game sold worse than the last Golden Sun.
I don't believe Dark Dawn's sales have ever actually been revealed in full. Nintendo doesn't usually release units sold for games that failed to break 1 mil, which neither it nor the last Mario Golf reached. And VGChartz is very unreliable, if that's what you're using.
 

Dinoman96

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The inclusions of Marth, Roy and Lucas really were all a bunch of happy accidents.

It's been well documented that Marth and Roy were originally planned to purged from all non-JP versions of Melee. Lucas also only got in because Sakurai was seemingly oblivious to the fact that Mother 3 wasn't going to be localized.


lucasbrawl.png
 
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The inclusions of Marth, Roy and Lucas really were all a bunch of happy accidents.

It's been well documented that Marth and Roy were originally planned to purged from all non-JP versions of Melee. Lucas also only got in because Sakurai was seemingly oblivious to the fact that Mother 3 wasn't going to be localized.


View attachment 227861
And now we have an influx of Fire Emblem characters lol. I’m glad things worked out the way they did.

It would have been weird to not at least have Marth considering he’s arguably the face of that franchise. I would trade away most of the FE characters if we could get Lyn in return..
 

Xenigma

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To me, the only really surprising thing about Lucas in Smash at this point is that all these years later, and after all the fan demand, we still don't have a localized Mother 3. It seems like such an obvious, low-risk, high-reward project for Nintendo, especially with all the free publicity the game has gotten via Brawl/Sm4sh/Ultimate, yet we still have nothing official over 13 years after that game released.

One of the things I've always imagined about Isaac in Smash is that his inclusion could spark enough fan demand to ensure a new Golden Sun release. Unfortunately, if the Mother series is any indication (never mind others like F-Zero or Kid Icarus), Nintendo is perfectly willing to let a series rot even if they're enjoying the limelight of Smash. Not to say I wouldn't be happy with Isaac in Smash without a new Golden Sun, but I'll hold out hope that we get the dream of a game announcement alongside Isaac DLC so we can have the best of both worlds.
 

StormC

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To me, the only really surprising thing about Lucas in Smash at this point is that all these years later, and after all the fan demand, we still don't have a localized Mother 3. It seems like such an obvious, low-risk, high-reward project for Nintendo, especially with all the free publicity the game has gotten via Brawl/Sm4sh/Ultimate, yet we still have nothing official over 13 years after that game released.

One of the things I've always imagined about Isaac in Smash is that his inclusion could spark enough fan demand to ensure a new Golden Sun release. Unfortunately, if the Mother series is any indication (never mind others like F-Zero or Kid Icarus), Nintendo is perfectly willing to let a series rot even if they're enjoying the limelight of Smash. Not to say I wouldn't be happy with Isaac in Smash without a new Golden Sun, but I'll hold out hope that we get the dream of a game announcement alongside Isaac DLC so we can have the best of both worlds.
I disagree that it would be low risk. There's some pretty controversial content in the game and editing around it might alienate fans. There's also the fact that they have to foot the bill on their own translation. Based on some insider stuff from ResetERA, NOA internally considered localizing Mother 3 but decided against it, probably because of a cost-benefit analysis.
 

Xenigma

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I disagree that it would be low risk. There's some pretty controversial content in the game and editing around it might alienate fans. There's also the fact that they have to foot the bill on their own translation. Based on some insider stuff from ResetERA, NOA internally considered localizing Mother 3 but decided against it, probably because of a cost-benefit analysis.
I'd have to wonder when that cost-benefit analysis happened then, because while I could absolutely see that being the case back when Mother 3 released in 2006, I think that analysis changes substantially when the main character has been in Smash games since 2008 (2007 if you count his initial reveal), not to mention the game would now theoretically be on the Switch.

As for controversial content, I admittedly don't know anything about that, but if the Mother fanbase is anything like Golden Sun's or F-Zero's or any other dormant Nintendo franchise's, I think they'd rather see them try than leave the game/franchise in limbo forever.
 

StormC

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I'd have to wonder when that cost-benefit analysis happened then, because while I could absolutely see that being the case back when Mother 3 released in 2006, I think that analysis changes substantially when the main character has been in Smash games since 2008 (2007 if you count his initial reveal), not to mention the game would now theoretically be on the Switch.

As for controversial content, I admittedly don't know anything about that, but if the Mother fanbase is anything like Golden Sun's or F-Zero's or any other dormant Nintendo franchise's, I think they'd rather see them try than leave the game/franchise in limbo forever.
It was recent, a few years ago IIRC, maybe not even that. Imran talked about it.
 
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Sabrewulf238

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Aside from the first two, I would say Rhythm Heaven as well. At least Rhythm Heaven and Golden Sun got some notable amounts of content, but Advance Wars got the short end of the stick.

ARMS could also be another big series, because it sold about as much as those three with a single title, and Astral Chains could reach there too (but we have to wait and see).

Those five are probably on the top of my list of new first party franchises to include.
I wouldn't have much confidence in Astral Chain or Daemon X Machina getting much attention from Smash for a while. When even Splatoon had to wait it's turn I think it's fair to say Sakurai isn't going to jump at including playable characters for them as soon as they release. (to be fair you could argue Corrin was an example of this happening but I think it's probably easier for Sakurai to take a gamble on a franchise that's already established in Smash)

An Arms rep is a lot more likely, although it might depend on whether we get an Arms 2. (though I don't see why we wouldn't) I don't know if it's just me though but I haven't felt a huge appetite for an Arms rep, definitely nowhere near the Splatoon demand. Although I think if Arms 2 comes along and sells well this won't be an issue.

If we were to get three reps for Nintendo IPs it probably would be from Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven and Arms.
 
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Hydewell

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Mario Golf is still gonna be more work for less profit than MT Aces. They don't have a Wii U game to take assets from unlike Tennis, and even if they did they would still have to spend time creating new golf courses.
And even with that, probably it's more cheaper to do a new entry for Mario Golf than Golden Sun (it's common knowledge that it cost a lot of money to do a RPG game).
I mean, I obviously want a new/remake Golden Sun entry, but I just think Nintendo will prioritize any Mario entry for Camelot. My hope was that Nd Cube would assume the Mario Sport entries, but welp, they didn't (and they have like 100 workers to do a worse Mario Party entry each time...).

But hey, I really think Nintendo realized the popularity from Golden Sun with the poll and, posibly, with the reaction from Isaac being an Assist Trophy. IMO they only planned 3 or 4 spirits originally (Young Isaac, Adult Isaac, Felix and Matthew), and after the reaction, they put all the other characters:
- The Garet one is clearly bugged, it doesn't make sense that a 1 star spirit has the whole map in flames.
- The Jenna and Ivan spirits appear in the Ana shop in the adventure mode. It doesn't make sense an small franchise has 2 characters in one shop in order to buy them, it just screams to me they added them later.
- Isaac mission already has a representation of the other 3 party members, why are they being featured as a separate battles? It would make more sense to only battle Isaac and its Mii interpretation with some boost on its attacks.

So who knows, maybe Golden Sun will shine again before Mario Golf. I guess we'll have to wait.

Well, at least Takamaru's game is playable in the West these days. All that's left is for his fans to campaign for him more seriously. And ignore the folk complaining about swords.
Curious how Nintendo tend to include Takamaru all the time since the Wii (Captain Rainbow, Samurai Warriors exclusive "remake", Nintendoland, localizing the game in the west, appearing in Smash as an Assist trophy, featuring him in Mario Maker and Mario Maker 2...), but they don't do a new game. Or they are planning a new entry, or some directors have fond memories of him and just put him everywhere until some newbie productor get his attention lol
Also it doesn't help that the last Mario Golf game sold worse than the last Golden Sun.
We don't know that; we don't know how many copies sold DD and the 3ds golf entry.
To me, the only really surprising thing about Lucas in Smash at this point is that all these years later, and after all the fan demand, we still don't have a localized Mother 3. It seems like such an obvious, low-risk, high-reward project for Nintendo, especially with all the free publicity the game has gotten via Brawl/Sm4sh/Ultimate, yet we still have nothing official over 13 years after that game released.

One of the things I've always imagined about Isaac in Smash is that his inclusion could spark enough fan demand to ensure a new Golden Sun release. Unfortunately, if the Mother series is any indication (never mind others like F-Zero or Kid Icarus), Nintendo is perfectly willing to let a series rot even if they're enjoying the limelight of Smash. Not to say I wouldn't be happy with Isaac in Smash without a new Golden Sun, but I'll hold out hope that we get the dream of a game announcement alongside Isaac DLC so we can have the best of both worlds.
Localizing Mother 3 is just killing themselves nowadays. If they edit the controversial things, the mother community would criticize them a lot. If they don't edit anything, the media would eat them.
The game has several "hot topics" (the transgender sexuality, a posible pedophile scene (even if it didn't really happen), etc.) that it's very very controversial. They won't take the risk.
Also, if you really want to play the game, you have already done it. Yeah, it's piracy, but... it's the only way to play it.
 
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FlawedAI

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I believe that Golden Sun is on the forefront of first-party Smash representation, if only because it has it's foot in the door already. Rhythm Heaven is probably next, followed by Advance Wars or ARMS.

That said, the series is kinda stuck in a loop: we're not in Smash because the series hasn't been "relevant", but getting in Smash would revive the series, making it relevant enough for Smash. The whole thing is awful, and it gets worse every day nothing Golden Sun-related is announced.
 
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I believe that Golden Sun is on the forefront of first-party Smash representation, if only because it has it's foot in the door already. Rhythm Heaven is probably next, followed by Advance Wars or ARMS.

That said, the series is kinda stuck in a loop: we're not in Smash because the series hasn't been "relevant", but getting in Smash would revive the series, making it relevant enough for Smash. The whole thing is awful, and it gets worse every day nothing Golden Sun-related is announced.
Nintendo should at least release the games on the Switch E-shop to see how they sell. Make a Golden Sun collection and see the reception.

It’s a win at least for Golden Sun fans. Whether the games sell well or not we still have them on the Switch. And if they do sell well then Nintendo can continue the series.

Dream come true would be a collection to go along with an Isaac DLC smash fighter. I’d prefer remakes of the first two or a new game, but I’d take anything.
 

FlawedAI

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Nintendo should at least release the games on the Switch E-shop to see how they sell. Make a Golden Sun collection and see the reception.

It’s a win at least for Golden Sun fans. Whether the games sell well or not we still have them on the Switch. And if they do sell well then Nintendo can continue the series.

Dream come true would be a collection to go along with an Isaac DLC smash fighter. I’d prefer remakes of the first two or a new game, but I’d take anything.
I've always been a fan of the idea that a remake of TBS/TLA would do wonders, with the amazing climate for RPGs on Switch and the fact that nostalgia will help carry any new GS game, so I really hope that Camelot has been working on that. I still believe that Isaac's (presumed) success on the Smash Ballot helped convince Camelot to work on Golden Sun again, even if they had to wait until after Mario Tennis Aces was released. I'm almost sure that GS is next on Camelot's "to-do list", we just have to be patient.
 
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or some directors have fond memories of him and just put him everywhere until some newbie productor get his attention lol

Localizing Mother 3 is just killing themselves nowadays. If they edit the controversial things, the mother community would criticize them a lot. If they don't edit anything, the media would eat them.
The game has several "hot topics" (the transgender sexuality, a posible pedophile scene (even if it didn't really happen), etc.) that it's very very controversial. They won't take the risk.
Also, if you really want to play the game, you have already done it. Yeah, it's piracy, but... it's the only way to play it.
Well, it worked for Cosmo the Cosmic Robot. Even if Mega Man and Sonic's comics had to be used as blood sacrifices.

On Mother 3 topic: As they say, damned if you do, damned if you don't. At least we finally got Romancing Saga 3 and Seiken Densetsu 3.
 

hustler713

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I've always been a fan of the idea that a remake of TBS/TLA would do wonders, with the amazing climate for RPGs on Switch and the fact that nostalgia will help carry any new GS game, so I really hope that Camelot has been working on that. I still believe that Isaac's (presumed) success on the Smash Ballot helped convince Camelot to work on Golden Sun again, even if they had to wait until after Mario Tennis Aces was released. I'm almost sure that GS is next on Camelot's "to-do list", we just have to be patient.
I'm glad they did Mario tennis already, so they're available at the moment. I just believe that its not the perfect time for gs to reappear.
The last year's pretty much everything sold well on switch. I don't know if that's still the case, but I'd say gs would have it harder these days than it had in 2018 or 17.
 
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