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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

Sabrewulf238

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Surely this means Persona 5 is coming to Switch? I know we have Q but that's not going to cut it at this point.

I loved Persona 2, 3 and 4 so I'd probably be even more excited for Joker....if I had played Persona 5. :p

All things said, the inclusion of a Shin Megami Tensei rep is making me more optimistic about the upcoming dlc packs.
 
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ZelDan

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Surely this means Persona 5 is coming to Switch? I know we have Q but that's not going to cut it at this point.

I loved Persona 2, 3 and 4 so I'd probably be even more excited for Joker....if I had played Persona 5. :p
I'd hope this would be the case. I don't own a PS3 or PS4 so a switch port would give me a chance to check out the game (and thus maybe allow me to give a crap about Joker in Smash)
 
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Sentinel07

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Hey, sorry I don't talk here much but figured I might as well say this much, golden sun would technically be considered a new franchise for smash so there's somehope if they ever do an assist trophy upgrade :)

Personally regarding joker it's not the character that makes me upset it's the company, Atlus games. Atlus has been pushing an active anti-lgbtq+ agenda in almost all their games and apparently in their company practices too, and them getting more big support and stuff just makes me feel sick. I know Nintendo's hand's aren't completely clean when it comes to this stuff but Atlus has been really active with this hateful and discriminatory **** unlike the big N. So yeah, not really looking forward to that. May pick up the fighter pass still if the other dlc characters interest me since it's more convenient and I guess it be nice to have the full game content just to say I have the complete game but I probably even then won't play joker much.
Uh, I have failed to see this agenda you speak of.

Heck, Persona 4 actually has a character that deals with his own sexuality and it's handled rather respectfully.
 

NoOtherPersona

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Joker, eh?

Can someone give me a quick rundown on who he(?) is?
Persona 5s main protagonist he has a knife and a gun he can summon personas and they have different abilities the games soundtrack is great and that is all not to sound like I'm upset I'm really hyped but that's the basic quick run down
 
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Sentinel07

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Joker, eh?

Can someone give me a quick rundown on who he(?) is?
He's the main protagonist of Persona 5. Long story short, his power involves summoning a Persona, a manifestation of his inner self. Although, in his own game, he has the power of the Wild Card, meaning he can summon many kinds of Personas.

Whether or not that'll be part of his moveset in Smash is unknown.
 

TheBrainJem

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Uh, I have failed to see this agenda you speak of.

Heck, Persona 4 actually has a character that deals with his own sexuality and it's handled rather respectfully.
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...dling-of-lgbtq-characters-catherine-full-body
There are many articles that point this out online. I would recommend reading a bunch of them to get the greater scope of things. Yes I have heard there are some representations in their games that are considered decent, but that's usually one character out of a sea of others that promote negative stereotypes or are subjected to discrimination
 

Isaac for Smash Pls

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Whoa, I don't understand why people in this thread are upset about this or talking about boycotting the game. This is really exciting news and Reggie said that all the other 4 characters will be similarly unexpected and from new series. So basically no more Pokemon/Fire Emblem reps which was my biggest concern. Even if people don't personally like Persona or haven't played it, this is at least a very creative choice that makes lots of people excited, and that's all I want from a Smash game.
 

Silo777

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I think in this case, an out of nowhere third party character works. Especially because that reveal was so goddamn cool, and people actually do want Joker.
 

Isaac for Smash Pls

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I guess some people will never be happy or can't be happy for other people unless they get what they want. The loss of Isaac stung but I was happy to see Golden Sun getting an Assist, MULTIPLE spirits, music, and even a Mii costume. A far cry from being totally shunned in Smash 4. And I'm excited for whatever else we have in store.
 
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tbuster766

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Hey, sorry I don't talk here much but figured I might as well say this much, golden sun would technically be considered a new franchise for smash so there's somehope if they ever do an assist trophy upgrade :)

Personally regarding joker it's not the character that makes me upset it's the company, Atlus games. Atlus has been pushing an active anti-lgbtq+ agenda in almost all their games and apparently in their company practices too, and them getting more big support and stuff just makes me feel sick. I know Nintendo's hand's aren't completely clean when it comes to this stuff but Atlus has been really active with this hateful and discriminatory **** unlike the big N. So yeah, not really looking forward to that. May pick up the fighter pass still if the other dlc characters interest me since it's more convenient and I guess it be nice to have the full game content just to say I have the complete game but I probably even then won't play joker much.
I had no idea about that, but if that's true that's just messed up. I still like SMT and P5 series, but just wow.


Joker, eh?

Can someone give me a quick rundown on who he(?) is?
Main character from P5. Called Akira in the manga adaptation, but is called Ren in the anime. Completely silent protagonist minus a few subtle lines from in game cut scenes. He and his friends fight off what are called shadows in the persona universe, which are beings that manifest from the negative traits from people. Joker alongside his crew start a secret group called phantom thieves and their objective is to take out shadows that infest corrupt figures in society by "stealing their hearts."
 
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Sentinel07

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Whoa, I don't understand why people in this thread are upset about this or talking about boycotting the game. This is really exciting news and Reggie said that all the other 4 characters will be similarly unexpected and from new series. So basically no more Pokemon/Fire Emblem reps which was my biggest concern. Even if people don't personally like Persona or haven't played it, this is at least a very creative choice that makes lots of people excited, and that's all I want from a Smash game.
Agreed. Fire Emblem is my No.1 franchise but I seriously don't need another from it. :D

Not even from Three Houses, as much as I'm looking forward to it.
 
D

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Doesn't Joker's inclusion kind of take a massive dump on some of the biggest insiders and "leaks?" If so that's probably the most exciting thing to come with this DLC reveal.
As long as it means no Steve, that's a huge win.
 

Silo777

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If you didn’t like the reveal, the silver lining for you is that Reggie’s comment on all the DLC characters repping new franchises bodes well for Isaac.
 

Undella2

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Watched the trailer.

Gained almost no knowledge whatsoever.

At least it's a character from a new series.
 

Isaac for Smash Pls

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If you didn’t like the reveal, the silver lining for you is that Reggie’s comment on all the DLC characters repping new franchises bodes well for Isaac.
Ehhh....I mean, it's possible but at this point I'm expecting it to be all or mostly third party characters and for all of them to be "mainstream hype" picks like Joker. Would certainly be nice to get an upgrade from Assist Trophy but I think we have to be realistic that it's not likely at this point. Let's not set ourselves up for more heartbreak just in case, yeah?
 

tbuster766

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Ehhh....I mean, it's possible but at this point I'm expecting it to be all or mostly third party characters and for all of them to be "mainstream hype" picks like Joker. Would certainly be nice to get an upgrade from Assist Trophy but I think we have to be realistic that it's not likely at this point. Let's not set ourselves up for more heartbreak just in case, yeah?
I think our main objective is making Golden Sun relevant again and focusing our efforts towards a new game of sorts. If there's a wave 2 and assist trophies can get promoted, Isaac would definitely be the icing on the cake.
 
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Undella2

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What larger company is the Persona series owned by, anyways?

We probably shouldn't expect more than one DLC character from any major non-Nintendo studio...
 
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NoOtherPersona

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Watched the trailer.

Gained almost no knowledge whatsoever.

At least it's a character from a new series.
There's an anime for the game its quality is questionable but it would catch you up to speed on what he can do his abilities etc also Atlus which super happy they are finally included
 
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Silo777

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Ehhh....I mean, it's possible but at this point I'm expecting it to be all or mostly third party characters and for all of them to be "mainstream hype" picks like Joker. Would certainly be nice to get an upgrade from Assist Trophy but I think we have to be realistic that it's not likely at this point. Let's not set ourselves up for more heartbreak just in case, yeah?
I don’t think any of us expect it to happen, but we have hope anyway. That way we’re acknowledging the possibility, but won’t be too bummed if it doesn’t come through.

At the very least this doesn’t hurt his chances.
 

TheBrainJem

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I had no idea about that, but if that's true that's just messed up if true. I still like SMT and P5 series, but just wow.
yeah I linked an article earlier that talks about it, just one of dozens that document everything that has been seen in their games and how the company seems to value that hateful agenda as well as some of their fans supporting it too/harassing people who speak up against Atlus' stuff.
I have nothing against anyone who likes those games and enjoys them for what they have to offer like the gameplay or some of the characters yadda yadda yadda that's all fine, it's just personally Ii don't want to support them and I don't think that their current message they are pushing should be accepted by people, and I'd hope that fans would call them out on it so that maybe they could change for the better or something.


But yeah, still holding out for Isaac as a possible surprise, I also wanted waluigi to join him but considering it seems new franchises being represented only for DLC, unless there's a waluigi game in the works that's considered seperate from Mario, the Dream is pretty much dead for waluigi. But I hope his Camelot brother gets a chance at least
 
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tbuster766

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There's an anime for the game its quality is questionable but it would catch you up to speed on what he can do his abilities etc also Atlus which super happy they are finally included
The anime was enjoyable, but felt so rushed given the sheer content covered by the game lol.

Edit: TheBrainJem TheBrainJem It does put it more into perspective. The games are still enjoyable, but pushing an agenda of that nature is not cool no matter how you look at it. Atm, I think many of us here are just pushing for a new GS game. Here's hoping that there will be a second fighter pass and both Waluigi and Isaac get promoted with any luck :D
 
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Sentinel07

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If you didn’t like the reveal, the silver lining for you is that Reggie’s comment on all the DLC characters repping new franchises bodes well for Isaac.
I guess it depends on what exactly new franchises means.

As in ones that don't have official logos/playable characters (which would mean Golden Sun is a possibility) or franchises that aren't represented in any capacity so far.
 

NoOtherPersona

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The anime was enjoyable, but felt so rushed given the sheer content covered by the game lol.
I was watching it but I quickly stopped cuz all I cared about was the OP/ED songs that's all I wanted if I wanted to watch persona I'd play it lol
 

Isaac for Smash Pls

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yeah I linked an article earlier that talks about it, just one of dozens that document everything that has been seen in their games and how the company seems to value that hateful agenda as well as some of their fans supporting it too/harassing people who speak up against Atlus' stuff.
I have nothing against anyone who liked that games and enjoys them for what they have to offer like the gameplay or send of the characters yadda yadda yadda that's all fine, it's just personally bi don't want to support them and I don't think that their current message they are pushing should be accepted by people, and I'd hope that fans would call them out on it so that maybe they could change for the better or something.


But yeah, still holding out for Isaac as a possible surprise, I also wanted waluigi to join him but considering it seems new franchises being represented only for DLC, unless there's a waluigi game in the works that's considered seperate from Mario, the Dream is pretty much dead for waluigi. But I hope his Camelot brother gets a chance at least
Honestly I think people would be surprised at the kind of stuff that flies here in Japan. It's not at all uncommon to see Japanese actors in blackface on TV, and the "Okama" homosexual trope is still played for laughs all the damn time. It's pretty gross.

With that said, having not read the stuff you linked, I never got the feeling that Atlus/Persona specifically was pushing some kind of anti-LGBT agenda? I heard about the ending of Catherine and that was definitely pretty bad, but I think it lines up with the general homophobia/transphobia that's pretty common in Japan. I'm not saying that to give them a pass, just to say that it's (sadly) not something exclusive to Persona, and you also have to weigh the fact that Kanji, one of the main characters from Persona 4, is canonically gay and (to my mind) was treated fairly respectfully and with actual nuance, by Japanese standards anyway.

That is to say, you're not wrong by any means, and I'm not trying to whataboutism this, but Cloud in Final Fantasy VII also cross-dressed as a woman in a brothel, nearly got sexually assaulted, and Barret is a pretty yikes black stereotype, but it was still cool to see Cloud join the fray in Smash. I think it's OK for people to be excited about Joker being in and it's also OK to feel as you do as well. I just wanted to add in my two cents there and say that I don't think it's quite as black and white as "Atlus hates LGBT." To my knowledge at least they're not on Chic-Fil-A's level at least where they're actively donating to hate groups.

EDIT: as for some of the fans of Atlus' games being pretty toxic, no argument there. But I'm not sure how that reflects on the company themselves. Rick and Morty fans, Kingdom Hearts fans, Call of Duty fans, etc. etc. all have VERY vocal and obnoxious and awful segments of their fanbases but I don't think it's fair to pin that on the company unless it's something that they actively stoke.

EDIT 2: Just because I didn't make it clear in my original post: what I'm getting at is that Japan is a different culture with a different history and different values and we can't judge them by 2018 Western liberal values. That goes without saying, of course. But the progressive movement in the United States and the widespread acceptance of LGBTQ+ individuals in North America and Europe is a VERY recent and far from complete phenomenon, and it just takes time. Japan is still a pretty homogeneous place (not as much as people think but that's another story) with a lot of very conservative worldviews when it comes to stuff like this. I do my best to engage my Japanese friends in conversation about this stuff or call out things that offend me when I see them, but it's slow going.
 
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Sabrewulf238

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If you didn’t like the reveal, the silver lining for you is that Reggie’s comment on all the DLC characters repping new franchises bodes well for Isaac.
I think we already assumed that was the case since they were coming with a stage and new music though.
 

tbuster766

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I was watching it but I quickly stopped cuz all I cared about was the OP/ED songs that's all I wanted if I wanted to watch persona I'd play it lol
I could say the same, especially when you pretty much know what's going to happen and that it will all be rushed lol. I loved the opening songs though. Especially when they make subtle changes to incorporate new characters and what not.
 
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NoOtherPersona

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I could say the same, especially when you pretty much know what's going to happen and that it will all be rushed lol. I loved the opening songs though. Especially when they make subtle changes to incorporate new characters and what not.
Yeah it made it worth It too tune in each week only to stop right after lol but it's great for people who never played the game or have a ps4 as a quick crappy rushed version of the story
 

tbuster766

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Yeah it made it worth It too tune in each week only to stop right after lol but it's great for people who never played the game or have a ps4 as a quick crappy rushed version of the story
I just wish they stuck with Akira over Ren... especially given the old school anime vibes that came off from P5 to me it sounded more appropriate. I'd say the kamoshida arc was my least favorite when it came to the anime and my most favorite one was the one after with Madarame. At least with the game we are given the luxury of multiple endings that are not rushed lol.
 
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NoOtherPersona

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Also Undella2 Undella2 I just learned that persona is owned by Sega but it's made by atlus so joker is Sega's 3rd rep if you count him as a Sega rep Atlus first if you count him as atlus rep
 

GoldenSunIsAlive

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yeah I linked an article earlier that talks about it, just one of dozens that document everything that has been seen in their games and how the company seems to value that hateful agenda as well as some of their fans supporting it too/harassing people who speak up against Atlus' stuff.
I have nothing against anyone who likes those games and enjoys them for what they have to offer like the gameplay or some of the characters yadda yadda yadda that's all fine, it's just personally Ii don't want to support them and I don't think that their current message they are pushing should be accepted by people, and I'd hope that fans would call them out on it so that maybe they could change for the better or something.


But yeah, still holding out for Isaac as a possible surprise, I also wanted waluigi to join him but considering it seems new franchises being represented only for DLC, unless there's a waluigi game in the works that's considered seperate from Mario, the Dream is pretty much dead for waluigi. But I hope his Camelot brother gets a chance at least
So please stop this agenda of yours. (Sorry for double posting).
 
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Sabrewulf238

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Please dont play the victim card in here... all this talk about assumed discrimination is making me want to leave this thread forever. Dont do it.
That's a very extreme reaction isn't it?

We're not allowed to discuss these things without you wanting to leave?

It seems to me like you're the one playing the victim card.
 

tbuster766

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So please stop this agenda of yours. (Sorry for double posting).
Let's drop this. I don't think the OP of the post had any ill intent of any sorts or was trying to convince anybody anything. It is a polarizing thread after all, but there's no need to tell other people off for said post especially when people have been civil about discussing it from both sides.
 
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