Is Toon Links Up-B good when an enemy gets too close?

[Roy115]

So I really want to main Toon Link, but I use his up b to get out of tight situations. Is it a safe move to use? does anyone even use it besides recovering?

 

[Duplighost]

It's definitely good, but don't spam it, as it is easily punishable if predicted.
Toon Link's grab move (I believe) can latch onto ledges as another method of recovery.

 

[thadd_fin]

I use his UP B to punish constant rolling

 

[ultrament2]

Up B is a great move that should only be used in the initial dash animation with tap jump off
it works my dad works for Filasmech

 

[Duplighost]

Up B is a great move that should only be used in the initial dash animation with tap jump off
it works my dad works for Filasmech

I wonder how it would work with Perfect Pivoting?

 

[ultrament2]

I wonder how it would work with Perfect Pivoting?

It would only really work if you Spin attack fall'd it offledge for stylish kills. Don't use a bomb though or it'll **** up the timing and you won't be able to recover.

 

[Deleted member]

Up B is a great move that should only be used in the initial dash animation with tap jump off
it works my dad works for Filasmech

Another good use for it is if you have tap jump on, tap up to jump, then b to shoot an arrow at the opponent. If you can land it then you can follow up with the third hit of your usmash afterwards. It's also really good if you use it off-stage really far from the ledge.

I wonder how it would work with Perfect Pivoting?

Perfect pivot upb out of an initial dash animation is one of TL's best moves when used off-stage.

 

[MasterIzumi]

too close* lol. And if youre bad and roll a lot into people then sure. But anyone safe will just wait and punish it. But aggro people will fall into a simple run up, upb strat... maybe. Imo, TL is just bad when attacking at all unless its punishing rolls or a combo off a projectile. Id main someone better if you wanna upb. Like Brawl MK.

 

[Deleted member]

too close* lol. And if youre bad and roll a lot into people then sure. But anyone safe will just wait and punish it. But aggro people will fall into a simple run up, upb strat... maybe. Imo, TL is just bad when attacking at all unless its punishing rolls or a combo off a projectile. Id main someone better if you wanna upb. Like Brawl MK.

Even in this game MK is just a better character. If you want to blindly upb aggressively at people then use MK. Or better yet, use Olimar. Olimar's upb is great for being used aggressively at people.

 

[MasterIzumi]

I think the best upb is Ridleys. The one where he flies. And is in the game. Cuz thats a good idea. Just like the idea of the Wii Fit Trai-- oh.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Edit: Re-opening thread.

 

[SDMagic]

I actually really like using the grounded jump canceled up B out of shield. Especially at low percents as it knocks the opponent way farther back than oos nair can. It comes out very fast when jump canceled and can cover spotdodges and inward rolls so even normally "safe" moves can be contested. Also if they get too used to you using up B oos and try landing and shielding you can mix it up and grab them.

I also like using it like ftilt at lower percents. When I can get the opponent to mis-space their moves I'll usually use pivot ftilt but the jump canceled up b gives you more percent and the knockback you need at low percents to reset to neutral game.

Overall very useful and good just don't get too predictable with it without a backup plan.

 

[LotadAlittle]

When my opponent is close to the ground but still trying to land, I like to sh/fh next to them and try to bait an air dodge out,then ff and catch them in the landing lag with up b. Sometimes this works after shielding an attack form above like Toon Link/ZSS's dair and punishing with up b, if you can then even f smash is possible! Just remember, you can shield Bowser's dair but don't bring that thing anywhere near his down b, We all know how that'd work out, save up air for his Bowser bomb.

 

[ThatNintendoDude]

If your opponent is a big roll spammer, grounded up-b is great for roll punishes. They'll either have to stop rolling past you, which should mess up their game enough for you to punish them while they think about what to do next, or you'll keep getting free damage from them rolling.

 

[Moffe]

b reversed jump canceled up b on ground is a great way to catching people chasing you off guard It is really fast + sudden change in momentum caught so many people with, like sonic or falcon (people with dash attack/grab spam)

 

[dantejb20]

So I really want to main Toon Link, but I use his up b to get out of tight situations. Is it a safe move to use? does anyone even use it besides recovering?

Only use it if the opponent keeps dodging around you. It will do decent damage, knock them a fair distance back, and make them rethink their position(if not, free punishes!)

 

[Itano Circus]

Usually by the time my opponent's navigated their way through my array of projectiles to within a range where a roll will take them behind me, they're so impatient and frustrated by the struggle that they've undertaken just to gain space on me, that they can't help themselves but attempt to roll through to get my back.

Up-b.

However these are typically bad player. A Luigi player (who shall remain unnamed) knew exactly this and baited me out every time, and gave me an uppercut punish to think about.

The moral of the story (and what I learned) was that grounded up-b is a tool at our disposal for nothing more than conditioning people not to try rolling past us (as D-Smash sucks IMO ).

But it's a sucky tool, as our opponent shouldn't be this close to us in neutral if we do our job right. So our penance is a free punish if we read wrong.

But get a few of these right and I've found that people will sit in front of you terrified enough to roll to the point where their shields almost break eating projectiles

If your opponent is wise to it, stop trying! It's not worth the mid-range knockback to eat a smash.

 

[Theis]

So I really want to main Toon Link, but I use his up b to get out of tight situations. Is it a safe move to use? does anyone even use it besides recovering?

the answer is technically no. using any option out of sheild bomb-less starts on frame 11 or later. to put that into perspective most grabs that arent tether grabs OOS start on frame 6 or later which is half the time it takes for our grab to get started. the benefit of using upB or Usmash OOS is that it starts 1frame faster than a grab (assuming its not charged AT ALL) however both moves tend to have horrible recovery time so if its ever blocked you'll likely get punished for it. toonlink's grab OOS can be worth doing if they arent expecting it because it cant be blocked and it reaches farther than his other two bomb-less options OOS. however toonlink with a bomb in hand throws his bomb OOS on frame 5 which is fast enough to punish even a well spaced sheik fair (which also leads into kills and its been confirmed by VoiD that its an effective fair punish). frame data for item throws OOS are: front= 5f/7f* back=9f up= 11f down= 6f (front throws have a 2 frame difference depending if you smash/air throw or normal throw)

UpB however is a good move to catch wakeup situations and rolls given the proper reads/conditioning

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

however toonlink with a bomb in hand throws his bomb OOS on frame 5 which is fast enough to punish even a well spaced sheik fair (which also leads into kills and its been confirmed by VoiD that its an effective fair punish). frame data for item throws OOS are: front= 5f/7f* back=9f up= 11f down= 6f (front throws have a 2 frame difference depending if you smash/air throw or normal throw)

I don't know where you got this frame data, but it isn't true for Toon at least. If you throw the bomb forwards while standing (or if you throw it OoS), the Bomb will detect hurtboxes on frame 7 at the earliest and explode on frame 8 at the earliest, i.e. if the opponent has inputted shield such that it comes out on on frame 8, they will power-shield the explosion, and if they input shield such that it comes out on frame 7, the Bomb will bounce off the shield.

 

[Theis]

I don't know where you got this frame data, but it isn't true for Toon at least. If you throw the bomb forwards while standing (or if you throw it OoS), the Bomb will detect hurtboxes on frame 7 at the earliest and explode on frame 8 at the earliest, i.e. if the opponent has inputted shield on frame 7, they will power-shield the explosion, and if they input shield on frame 6, the Bomb will bounce off the shield.

There's a japanese google docs sheet of indepth frame data for characters, and it seems to test fairly accurately.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VkTACPtkRm539lQC_i_doGbIj4V-Nyh5ARWIZ-P__Uw/edit#gid=0

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Well I tested it personally. And you can take my word for it.

 

[L9999]

Unless the opponent likes to airdodge near the ground, roll into you, or it's a very dumb aggro players, Up B shouldn't be used on-stage at all. Maybe as a ledge coverage option, but boomerang is a way better option. Not even for disrespect it's good.

 

[Scootch]

I use up special if my opponent gets too close or in a free for all and I am stuck in the fray of the battle. It is a good "Give me some breathing room!" move but I try not to be predictable with it so I do not get punished.