Is this game Broken? (New combos discovered)

[Teeb147]

It hasn't even been that long, and people are finding busted combos. & stuff
Is this game broken? At the very least, there's some interesting combos popping up. (feel free to share more of them you find)
I was kind of hoping it wouldn't be and fights would be more about outplaying overall, rather than being tossed in combos (if they're overly good, that is).

-Metaknight ladder and nado combos..

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(apparently there's also combos involving knee :O)

Spoiler

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Thanks @I3ryce for labbing puff things and finding this combo. Y'all ain't ready for ultimate puff. pic.twitter.com/wACT3Wf9nX

— Pneumatic (@PneumaticSSB) November 25, 2018

So something else we can do. You can also delay the acrfire sending them a little higher up and up airing instead of upsmash. (still true combo) does 50% and pretty easy to do. If you do the combo twice they're actually dead. pic.twitter.com/Mx2VD81qak

— ŦƑĿ | Athena (@TFL_Athena) November 26, 2018

What do you think?
And how many balance patches are we gonna get?

 

[ca$hm0n3y]

Damn, that meta knight combo really got me. Also robins seems easy to do and kills at 60%. Maybe release will be different? We can only hope.

 

[Porygon2]

The Meta Knight combo is just carry-over from 4 limited to his character. I imagine it might be patched if it proves too OP. The training ones you posted aren't as big a deal as jury's still out on whether they're true, with the exception of Arcfire (but then there's also a reason Robin has limited tomes/levin startup).

Even then, if a bunch of fast combos are found for a bunch of characters, it should just change the pace of defense/offense, and possibly the default stock count (perhaps working to balance all the complaint about large blast zones, balloon knockback, etc.) Excited to see things develop. I think getting the hang of the new parrying mechanic will be a big deal, for example.

 

[Teeb147]

Damn, that meta knight combo really got me. Also robins seems easy to do and kills at 60%. Maybe release will be different? We can only hope.

The Meta Knight combo is just carry-over from 4 limited to his character. I imagine it might be patched if it proves too OP. The training ones you posted aren't as big a deal as jury's still out on whether they're true, with the exception of Arcfire (but then there's also a reason Robin has limited tomes/levin startup).

Even then, if a bunch of fast combos are found for a bunch of characters, it should just change the pace of defense/offense, and possibly the default stock count (perhaps working to balance all the complaint about large blast zones, balloon knockback, etc.) Excited to see things develop. I think getting the hang of the new parrying mechanic will be a big deal, for example.

It depends on if training mode di works good enough, i guess.
Well, I do hope the community does change around the mechanics to keep it fun and relatively balanced.
My hope is that di, and sdi, can actually help get out of most of them. It could be fun to have non-true combos, maybe.. (depending on di, etc.)

 

[Thinkaman]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines

The game has only been out for negative 9 days; it's like people are trying to set a record for jumping to conclusions.

 

[Teeb147]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines

The game has only been out for negative 9 days; it's like people are trying to set a record for jumping to conclusions.

This aint journalism tho.
And training mode has a di option, so it's legit stuff that makes sense to be talked about.

 

[Thinkaman]

You are drawing dramatic conclusions from Twitter clips of cpus in training mode on a non-final (pre-day-0) version of the game. I am at a loss for how this could be a more ridiculous situation.

 

[mugwhump]

Is Smash 64 broken?

Anyway I personally consider these good things, combos are gr8.

I didn't know training mode had a DI option, it's about time! How does it let you configure it?

 

[Teeb147]

You are drawing dramatic conclusions from Twitter clips of cpus in training mode on a non-final (pre-day-0) version of the game. I am at a loss for how this could be a more ridiculous situation.

I find your take kinda disrespectful, thinkaman.
Allow discussion. You should know better. Especially when you dont know the case.

There's quite a bit of this stuff coming out, and a lot have said that it's true. Like I said, training mode has di. And the question is whether or not these things are busted, and will be changed, whether patched or not.

Is Smash 64 broken?

Anyway I personally consider these good things, combos are gr8.

I didn't know training mode had a DI option, it's about time! How does it let you configure it?

That's a good question. Maybe there's a picture or full detail of it somewhere.
It's an option called "CPU shuffling", where they programmed to di & sdi away from potential moves/follow-ups.

 

[Orlando BCN]

The game’s not broken, but Jigglypuff is...

 

[Zenos]

As far as I've seen and heard, CPUs don't DI in training when they are set to only stand there. They'll only do it if they're set to an action like walking.

Plus, random DI still isn't optimal DI in any case.

 

[Teeb147]

As far as I've seen and heard, CPUs don't DI in training when they are set to only stand there. They'll only do it if they're set to an action like walking.

Plus, random DI still isn't optimal DI in any case.

That's the first I hear someone thinking it's random di.
I do wonder about the di and hope some of these combos arent true. As long as the game's fun tho

Also, here's some Inkling:

good morning. here's more pic.twitter.com/8p1gpxpUXG

— meowmix (@meowmixMVS) November 27, 2018

 

[lucasla]

It's just too soon to have any opinion about these things. People dont even have the game, only a few that wanna call attention to the fact they already have the game in some obscure way.

 

[Teeb147]

It's just too soon to have any opinion about these things. People dont even have the game, only a few that wanna call attention to the fact they already have the game in some obscure way.

That makes little sense, when some people have the game in hand and can and are testing these things.
(also, It's not like anyone has to form a 'final' opinion when it's about discussing especially)

Game & Watch:

double fair dair setup pic.twitter.com/hMdFREv4Pt

— brrrr 🎲💀🏴‍☠️❤️🧚🍂➡️EVOJ (@I3ryce) November 27, 2018

 

[Zenos]

That's the first I hear someone thinking it's random di.

Also, here's some Inkling:

good morning. here's more pic.twitter.com/8p1gpxpUXG

— meowmix (@meowmixMVS) November 27, 2018

Actually I was wrong:

"So now onto the training mode stuff that sucks. CPU SDI/DI setting *only works if you set the CPU to play*. You cannot have the CPU set to "stop" or even "walk" or "run". So basically if you wanna position the CPU somewhere to try out a specific combo you will have to set it "Stop", move it to where you want and then set it to "CPU" and quick start your combo before it hits you or move. Setting to CPU level 1 works though and they don't move around *too* much, so that alleviates the problem a lot."

So a lot of these combos actually aren't being DI'd at all if this is true.

 

[Teeb147]

Actually I was wrong:

"So now onto the training mode stuff that sucks. CPU SDI/DI setting *only works if you set the CPU to play*. You cannot have the CPU set to "stop" or even "walk" or "run". So basically if you wanna position the CPU somewhere to try out a specific combo you will have to set it "Stop", move it to where you want and then set it to "CPU" and quick start your combo before it hits you or move. Setting to CPU level 1 works though and they don't move around *too* much, so that alleviates the problem a lot."

So a lot of these combos actually aren't being DI'd at all if this is true.

Good to know, if tha'ts the case.
But according to those I saw, they said they put the di on. Unless they couldn't tell that it wasn't working, I'd wager at least some of them knew what they were doing. You'd be able to see them move away or not.

I do kind of hope youre right tho

 

[MrUnderscoreCool]

A lot of these videos show off some cool stuff, but the big question is whether or not the combos are true. If the quote above means anything, none of those CPUs where DIing at all. I'd say we wait at least until the game comes out before making any rash assumptions like OP.

However, I hope you guys continue to post combo footage here; true or not, their fun to look at!

 

[Teeb147]

A lot of these videos show off some cool stuff, but the big question is whether or not the combos are true. If the quote above means anything, none of those CPUs where DIing at all. I'd say we wait at least until the game comes out before making any rash assumptions like OP.

However, I hope you guys continue to post combo footage here; true or not, their fun to look at!

Aight, I appreciate what's being said. I dont understand why there's this talk about rash assumptions. It's a Question, to discuss all this. (I changed the title a bit in case)
It's also one reason I thought the thread could be interesting, to post those videos.
If anyone finds more, go ahead, there's some popping up and they're interesting to see.

 

[MrUnderscoreCool]

I meant no offesne to you, OP, but the title certainly conveys a more exaggerated tone than the thread itself. Just a small critique

 

[Teeb147]

I meant no offesne to you, OP, but the title certainly conveys a more exaggerated tone than the thread itself. Just a small critique

Alright. Maybe people arent used to taking sensationalism lightly. dunno.
Anyway, it was still a concern that's part of wondering what these combos could mean. Hopefully it doesn't trigger more, lol.

As a relevant note, the one with jigglypuff is set to 'stop', so I'm looking forward to knowing if it's true for sure that it needs to be active for the di to kick in. That may change quite a few things.

 

[Tollhouse]

I don't see what the fuss is about for beating up a computer that's on idiot mode. We'll find out if those are real combos or not when it involves two players who are actually human and are capable of making logical game play decisions.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Just because combos exists doesn't mean the game is broken. Although I daresay that Meta Knight one.....is pretty damn broken.

Other than that, the first Falcon combo isn't true if you S/DI or fastfall out. Puff will never be broken, period. Neither will Robin. Robin got nerfed pretty hard, actually.

 

[RyuhoFox]

Some interesting stuff has been found at least. Until these get tested on actual people it's not really something I think we can say much about though

 

[Teeb147]

Just because combos exists doesn't mean the game is broken. Although I daresay that Meta Knight one.....is pretty damn broken.

Other than that, the first Falcon combo isn't true if you S/DI or fastfall out. Puff will never be broken, period. Neither will Robin. Robin got nerfed pretty hard, actually.

As far as I saw, Robin is much better than before. But anyway those were just some examples (and still cool to see). I thought people were pretty tired enough of broken stuff (like with bayo), but in any case, we'll really see how things will shape up by how nintendo patches what gets overly annoying, i guess. It's not too bad if they're combos that arent 'true', and can make the game interesting.
We'll see. hopefully it all goes well.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

As far as I saw, Robin is much better than before. But anyway those were just some examples (and still cool to see). I thought people were pretty tired enough of broken stuff (like with bayo), but in any case, we'll really see how things will shape up by how nintendo patches what gets overly annoying, i guess. It's not too bad if they're combos that arent 'true', and can make the game interesting.
We'll see. hopefully it all goes well.

I thought Robin was nerfed.......they nerfed her neutral B, which was a major part of her gameplay. Perhaps they gave her other buffs I'm unaware of?

Besides, if you truly want broken, you should see King Dedede's new footstool combo. Now that's broken.

 

[FiXalaS]

I hope none of that is removed or changed

4 stock meta fast game please

 

[Teeb147]

I thought Robin was nerfed.......they nerfed her neutral B, which was a major part of her gameplay. Perhaps they gave her other buffs I'm unaware of?

Besides, if you truly want broken, you should see King Dedede's new footstool combo. Now that's broken.

Neutral B charges faster. Better mobility. nair can now use levin sword. Arcfire combos. Benefits enormously from low landing lag, it's now safe to land their aerials. I mean that's already quite big, and I dont even know the full list.

King DDD? That might be ok, since he was considered a pretty bad character. I havent seen it tho, feel free to share it.

 

[McCree]

So much complaining... :-/

Just wait until the game releases, you have to consider there are propably still people working on a small day 1 update, and even if not - just wait until jumping to conclusions. But that's just my two cents, I am new to this scene, so maybe you are not overreacting, but I am "underreacting". Lets see

 

[Teeb147]

So much complaining... :-/

Just wait until the game releases, you have to consider there are propably still people working on a small day 1 update, and even if not - just wait until jumping to conclusions. But that's just my two cents, I am new to this scene, so maybe you are not overreacting, but I am "underreacting". Lets see

I know right, people keep complaining about someone posting concerns at the same time as wanting to share cool combos, pretty weird huh?

Seriously, chill and it's ok for these things to be discussed.

I hope none of that is removed or changed

4 stock meta fast game please

That would be boring, at least to me. Since we already have melee for that. Would rather have 3 stock matches that are a litte more like extended battles.
The most important part of it I guess would be balance of characters. I'd rather there's more viable characters this time, than just between the ones that happen to have good combos, etc.

 

[TheCJBrine]

"Broken" techniques for the Ice Climbers have been brought back:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/a1g3ty/so_i_brought_back_some_hated_techniques_with_ice/

I am a happy Ice Climbers main.

 

[Teeb147]

"Broken" techniques for the Ice Climbers have been brought back:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/a1g3ty/so_i_brought_back_some_hated_techniques_with_ice/

I am a happy Ice Climbers main.

I always liked the possibility for that stuff with the ice climbers. It's not like they're overly good without stuff like that. So long as they dont have wobbling, I think it'll be really interesting to see what they can do as a pair.

 

[osby]

Spoiler: All Smash games are broken. Only some of them are more broken.

 

[staindgrey]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Guys.

I'm getting some bad Brawl flashbacks.

 

[Cookie_Crumbs]

This is the smash sequel ive always wanted. Cool fun combos for all charcters and good solid nuetral. If the combos are true (i get the feeling the day 1 patch is for stuff like this) this game would have took the best of melee and the best of smash 4 to make the "ultimate" smash. So i really hope this stuff stays in

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Neutral B charges faster. Better mobility. nair can now use levin sword. Arcfire combos. Benefits enormously from low landing lag, it's now safe to land their aerials. I mean that's already quite big, and I dont even know the full list.

King DDD? That might be ok, since he was considered a pretty bad character. I havent seen it tho, feel free to share it.

I'm only particularly interested in the third option for neutral B, the multi hit ball thingy. Apparently it lasts less, mening it doesn't have good follow ups.

As for Dedede, unfortunately there is no footage, but people who have played the game say he has a down throw footstool lock that can bring you from 0 to 75 or even KO on certain stages.

 

[Arrei]

Guys.

I'm getting some bad Brawl flashbacks.

Brawl? The ladder was MK's Smash 4 special. This thing was his entire game plan.

 

[staindgrey]

Brawl? The ladder was MK's Smash 4 special. This thing was his entire game plan.

Just referring to MK in general, not the technique used.

Luckily I saw very, very little of MK in Smash 4 and kinda forgot about his utter and total dominance of an entire game for awhile.

 

[Putuk]

Just wait until the game is out for real.
Maybe some of these prove to be impractical in praxis, maybe there's ways around them we havn't found yet or maybe every character can do something really crazy if you know how.

Plus, there's DLC and balance patches in the future. Nothing is set in stone. Who knows, maybe some unexpected character gets just the buff they need and rises to the top.

It's only a week from here, have some patience.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I don't like busted, boring ladder combos like Meta Knight's that essentially turn the game into a game of fishing for your one OP combo, but if he wasn't gamebreaking in 4 I wouldn't be to worried here either.

That Falcon U-air to Knee better be true though, that's hype. It probably won't be, but it should. Just as long as that Nair chain isn't.

As for Dedede, unfortunately there is no footage, but people who have played the game say he has a down throw footstool lock that can bring you from 0 to 75 or even KO on certain stages.

I'm pretty sure I heard that footstools finally are techable in Ultimate, actually.

 

[Rehnquist]

I don't think Ill ever fully understand the anti combo sentiment, but that is neither here nor there, what I find interesting that several people here are surprised by meta knight when that was his one schichk in smash 4 without them knowing, and surprise surprise Mk didn't' dominate the sm4sh scene.

Most people need to realize that casuals won't run into this often, especially if matches are all ranked now. Another thing to consider is that wild speculation and uninformed nerf mobs are things that got little mac nerfed right after the games release despite him not being the strongest character.

I fully support exploring things to their full extent with months of experience with play and counter play to decide if something is broken but starting off a convo/thread with 'broken, lets patch this now' (paraphrasing/exaggeration), makes me uneasy, that said I throughway enjoyed the links and videos presented in the thread.