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Is there a random factor in throw damage?

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
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I was doing some testing on how staleness affects the Ice Climbers Dthrow string and I did the following procedure:

On FD against MK:

Popo (P) Dthrow > Nana (N) regrag > N Dthrow > P Regrab > repeat until end of stage > let level 1 CPU air release > turn around and regrab >repeat

I did that until approx 180%. I then Killed the MK to reset CPU damage to 0. I then killed the ICs to reset stale moves queue.

I repeated this process for the next stock, but was given differing percent integers as displayed damage as I repeated the process. Would this in effect mean that the damage output on the throws is not consistent?

I was conversing with E_Alert on this and he recorded some of the actual numbers, but I plan to do further testing.

If anyone has any educated guesses, let me know :)
 
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I suppose there could be a randomized factor when calculating damage on staled moves. Depending upon the number, it could round the damage differently. Speaking of which, I never really understood the randomness on lasers from falco and fox. It randomly jumps around from 2% and 1% the more you use the move. I was never sure why.
 

Toomai

Smash Ace
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Someplace in Canada
Personally my guess is that Nana is being stupid as usual. Maybe her stale queue isn't reset on KO if Popo dies first or something.

I'd love to test myself but am incapable of replicating your test.
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
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what part are you not able to replicate?
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
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You don't really have to chain grab I would think

You could just grab with each individual climber and count throws based on that

The easiest way that I've found to grab with Nana is to do a quick dash dance to slightly separate the climbers and then run past opponent so when you hit grab, Nana is the one grabbing.
 

Yikarur

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I suppose there could be a randomized factor when calculating damage on staled moves. Depending upon the number, it could round the damage differently. Speaking of which, I never really understood the randomness on lasers from falco and fox. It randomly jumps around from 2% and 1% the more you use the move. I was never sure why.
thats because the move does invisible decimal damage and If the move does as example first 2,7 damage and then 2.3 and then 2.0 the damage shown is 2 5 and then 7.
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
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For this case, we ruled out decimals being a factor based on how the damage increased

Maybe I can get EA to post the data set
 

Stealth Raptor

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Here's a question- if you take it out to say 80ish throws, the the damages start to diverge or does it always stay within 1 or 2 percent of each other no matter how far out it goes? The first would indicate a large random factor

:phone:
 

Toomai

Smash Ace
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Someplace in Canada
I kind of figured this out on the Skype chat. The theory is this: basically Nana's throws don't stale properly. The 0.1 reductor that should apply to the first spot in the queue appears to be 0 instead, so after the first dthrow it's still considered fresh instead of stale, and every dthrow after that is also stronger than Popo's (0.91x instead of 0.81x, 0.83x instead of 0.73x, etc).

(Important side-info: The Climbers share a staleness queue, and only Popo affects its contents.)

This isn't tested 100% thouroughly, and I still don't know how to explain the claimed different damages for repeating the process, but I'm pretty sure it's the bulk of the issue. (I'm thinking the inconsistency of the original test happened because staleness doesn't apply until the action is finished/interrupted with something else and there was inconsistent timing between the throws or something, so sometimes Nana started throwing before Popo was done and sometimes she didn't.)
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
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Jun 3, 2010
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I'll try to do a standardized test on both theories and then send you the replay over skype at some point if in maintains being "random"
 
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Many things in Brawl appear to be "random" because of some idiosyncrasy that hasn't been considered.

For example, if you hit someone with Pikachu's neutral b while they're on the ledge it deals 1% less damage than if they're standing on stage. ZSS' pieces appeared to deal "random" damage until we realized they deal more damage the more they bounce on the ground. What are the chances something like that is what's happening? Is it possible there's some interaction with Nana that causes her throws to deal different damage depending on some external factor?
 
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