Is the "Smash 3" documentary gonna revive Brawl?

[LeadRod]

For those of you who are members of the Brawl commuity I am curious what your opinions are on the new planned documentary "Smash 3" by Corey "False" Shin are. With the backing of the project spiking drastically since the recent article on the smashboards front page it looks like it (fingers crossed) is gonna get funded:

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...h-bros-brawl-wii-u-documentary?ref=nav_search
(A link to the kickstarter for those who haven't seen it)

So what do you think? Will the kind of documentary success that led to Melee being thrust into the competitive spotlight be enough to revive Brawl or will it go unnoticed?

 

[ShadowKing]

Hopefully enough to revive brawl because brawl is Melee and 4 combined

 

[Whirlpool]

Or host a tournament, Revival of Brawl (R.O.B)

This documentary might inspire people to start to host Brawl tournaments again.

 

[Tankster]

We're not going to have as much viewership on this documentary like we had on Melee. However, we're still going to have a lot of viewers regardless.

Let's be honest. When Brawl was first released it nearly killed Melee. Smash 4 is doing to same to Brawl. I'm pretty sure folks will start coming back to Brawl slowly. The hype needs to die down first.

Sure, the Melee document really got folks to ignore Brawl as a whole, but with the document being made Brawl will have another chance to thrive.

False has 30 days to raise $6.3k for his equipment to make the documentary. It's been 4 days, and he's already at $5.2k. I don't need to say anything else. The numbers tell the story.

 

[TrashWizard]

Or host a tournament, Revival of Brawl (R.O.B)

This documentary might inspire people to start to host Brawl tournaments again.

IMO these tournaments should ban ICs and MK due to those 2 characters making any lower tier worthless to play, the tournaments should encouragediversity and be welcoming of new players too, so as to coincide with the release of the documentary.

 

[meticulousboy]

IMO these tournaments should ban ICs and MK due to those 2 characters making any lower tier worthless to play, the tournaments should encouragediversity and be welcoming of new players too, so as to coincide with the release of the documentary.

We pretty much need to see more play from lower tier characters. When will the documentary be completed?

 

[TyDye]

Hopefully enough to revive brawl because brawl is Melee and 4 combined

I helped fund the project just beacuse I think it would be awesome to see and I don't even play Brawl. However I would say 4 is more a combination of Melee and Brawl, than Brawl being Melee and 4. It's got Melee's competition speed with Brawls accessibility.

I like to look at it most similar to 64.

 

[ShadowKing]

I helped fund the project just beacuse I think it would be awesome to see and I don't even play Brawl. However I would say 4 is more a combination of Melee and Brawl, than Brawl being Melee and 4. It's got Melee's competition speed with Brawls accessibility.

I like to look at it most similar to 64.

Sry my wording was off there I ment brawl is the bridge of Melee and 4

 

[Iceweasel]

I hope so. Brawl has flaws, but so does every game. If Brawl comes back, I think we should add a no-tripping hack do what the guy above says and ban MK and ICs.

 

[Princess_]

Hopefully enough to revive brawl because brawl is Melee and 4 combined

Wut m8?

 

[Deleted member]

This game needs hacks in order to be viable. Not full-game mods, but rather, simply character tweaks and no tripping. Yes, being able to viably play the base game has a distinct intrinsic value to it, but even nature needs a boost every now and then.

 

[Tankster]

This game needs hacks in order to be viable. Not full-game mods, but rather, simply character tweaks and no tripping. Yes, being able to viably play the base game has a distinct intrinsic value to it, but even nature needs a boost every now and then.

Running it with or without trips shouldn't really matter since everyone hates the idea of tripping.

I can see a hack pack coming in like they did for melee. However, I will disagree with you about the hacks being needed in order for Brawl to be "Viable". I'll give you a couple of reasons:

- 1.) Again, everyone hates that tripping was added. But the chances of having it is 1%. So why hack it just to eliminate the one percent? You and others will probably see it differently, and I don't blame you. That's why netplay runs the no-tripping mod.
- 2.) I have been in the smash community for nearly 5 years now, meaning that this reason alone may not be viable. Anyways, I love watching every single smash game. However, what made Brawl the least competitive game in a lot of other peoples' eyes is the lack of "combos". You see combos in every fighting game. You see it in the other 3 smash games (4 if you count PM). You rarely see that in brawl. You can see strings, but you rarely see combos. To top it off there shouldn't be a difference between strings and "true combos". Just saying. Combos is what partially makes it a fighting game. Brawl just doesn't fit it.

Hacks definitely makes the games look better, but it doesn't guarantee a revival. Please note that this is my opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

Running it with or without trips shouldn't really matter since everyone hates the idea of tripping.

I can see a hack pack coming in like they did for melee. However, I will disagree with you about the hacks being needed in order for Brawl to be "Viable". I'll give you a couple of reasons:

- 1.) Again, everyone hates that tripping was added. But the chances of having it is 1%. So why hack it just to eliminate the one percent? You and others will probably see it differently, and I don't blame you. That's why netplay runs the no-tripping mod.
- 2.) I have been in the smash community for nearly 5 years now, meaning that this reason alone may not be viable. Anyways, I love watching every single smash game. However, what made Brawl the least competitive game in a lot of other peoples' eyes is the lack of "combos". You see combos in every fighting game. You see it in the other 3 smash games (4 if you count PM). You rarely see that in brawl. You can see strings, but you rarely see combos. To top it off there shouldn't be a difference between strings and "true combos". Just saying. Combos is what partially makes it a fighting game. Brawl just doesn't fit it.

Hacks definitely makes the games look better, but it doesn't guarantee a revival. Please note that this is my opinion.

I'll try to respond to these points to the best of my understanding of them;

1. But in a game where everyone's constantly dashing, that 1% becomes much more lethal and significant, and considering that even tripping once can cost you a stock, punish, or even game, it simply isn't worth it to bank on luck. Tripping is Sakurai's way of saying to the community "Hey! This is a party game!", and it doesn't make the game look good.

2. Not sure if you are Pro or Anti-Combos, however, I will say that buffing individual characters and removing hitstun cancelling would really help to make this game more competitive. Personally, even though Melee is more competitive than Brawl, I truly abhor it's engine; it's not only very stiff, complete with bad graphics, but it's also very clunky and hard to input commands with (light button-press = no response). Brawl greatly improved the engine, along with the option to disable Tap-Jump, however, in turn the gameplay suffered. Brawl doesn't have to be PM, no, but rather, it just needs to be competitive. I wouldn't mind a "floaty Melee", just so long as the gameplay doesn't suck anymore. As a competitive player, I actually stopped playing both Brawl and Melee because they were too unbalanced, complete with either a bad engine or bad gameplay. Smash 4 is like a balance between the two; less than desirable, but tolerable.

 

[Niche]

If brawl is brought back to life ( I hope it will be) We will definitely have to ban MK and ICs. This doesn't mean we will get character diversity but it will increase the chances of having more characters played. Either that or Snake dittos all day ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Tankster]

I'll try to respond to these points to the best of my understanding of them;

1. But in a game where everyone's constantly dashing, that 1% becomes much more lethal and significant, and considering that even tripping once can cost you a stock, punish, or even game, it simply isn't worth it to bank on luck. Tripping is Sakurai's way of saying to the community "Hey! This is a party game!", and it doesn't make the game look good.

2. Not sure if you are Pro or Anti-Combos, however, I will say that buffing individual characters and removing hitstun cancelling would really help to make this game more competitive. Personally, even though Melee is more competitive than Brawl, I truly abhor it's engine; it's not only very stiff, complete with bad graphics, but it's also very clunky and hard to input commands with (light button-press = no response). Brawl greatly improved the engine, along with the option to disable Tap-Jump, however, in turn the gameplay suffered. Brawl doesn't have to be PM, no, but rather, it just needs to be competitive. I wouldn't mind a "floaty Melee", just so long as the gameplay doesn't suck anymore. As a competitive player, I actually stopped playing both Brawl and Melee because they were too unbalanced, complete with either a bad engine or bad gameplay. Smash 4 is like a balance between the two; less than desirable, but tolerable.

Alright. Time to comment.

1.) If you're that worried about tripping while dash dancing try aerials more often!
JK, JK!...........
But seriously, I don't really care if tripping is taken out. However, if you decide to go that route you might as well ban ICs (and maybe MK) since they'll have a huge advantage with the tripping being gone. It's not going to bring out more diversity, but at least they'll be no true op character (besides MK and IC's CG). Competitive or not smash bros was originally intended to BE a party game. We make stuff competitive. Just letting you know....

2.) Since you are that curious I will say that I'm into combos. However, I've gotten so used to brawl over the years. So I'll rather stick to what I know. I don't know what you exactly mean by buffing characters. You're going to have to explain that a little. I'm pretty sure half of the cast needs buffs I'll keep my mind open for this one. As for removing hit-stun canceling I'll have to disagree once again. By removing that you're changing the nature of the game. I can see the offense coming out with this option. Instead of the normal defensive that that it already is it'll turn into who can get the first hit-stun for the combo. It seems like a little mindgame to me. Sorry, but I don't see tweaking hit-stun for the better.
I do see where you're coming from though. That's why I'm willing to try out the mod you're working on and see through your eyes how you wanted the game to play out. I'm not going to claim right from wrong. We both have the same goals, and it's to get the game revived in some way.

 

[jigglesthepuff]

i really hope so. it was such an amazing game and to see it just being left in the dust saddens me.

the melee doc caused a huge growth of melee, maybe this doc can do the same

 

[Zargasaurus]

i really hope so. it was such an amazing game and to see it just being left in the dust saddens me.

the melee doc caused a huge growth of melee, maybe this doc can do the same

IDK about that, the Melee documentary made sure to take a good dump on Brawl, so I think that there might be some conflict. I do not think it is a matter of banning Meta Knight, it is people like M2K who play a Defensive Camp Game, as well as Lights' Defensive Camp Olimar and Meta Knight. Watching M2K's Meta Knight is one of the most boring, sluggish, un-hype things to watch ever.

If Brawl does rise from the graveyard, I believe that it will only meet it's downfall; This is because fights are taking to long.
My suggestion is, that Brawl should be played with the two stock rules of SSB4, and also shorten the time a bit to fit the stock changes.

 

[Iceweasel]

IDK about that, the Melee documentary made sure to take a good dump on Brawl, so I think that there might be some conflict. I do not think it is a matter of banning Meta Knight, it is people like M2K who play a Defensive Camp Game, as well as Lights' Defensive Camp Olimar and Meta Knight. Watching M2K's Meta Knight is one of the most boring, sluggish, un-hype things to watch ever.

If Brawl does rise from the graveyard, I believe that it will only meet it's downfall; This is because fights are taking to long.
My suggestion is, that Brawl should be played with the two stock rules of SSB4, and also shorten the time a bit to fit the stock changes.

Because everyone knows that all that matters in competitive gaming is how engaged the VIEWERS are.

People in this community and outside it are trying to wrest as much control away from the players as possible so that they can implement whatever ****ty practices they want to make a quick buck. Do not let them do this, for allowing it will kill the scene.

 

[New_Dumal]

IDK about that, the Melee documentary made sure to take a good dump on Brawl, so I think that there might be some conflict. I do not think it is a matter of banning Meta Knight, it is people like M2K who play a Defensive Camp Game, as well as Lights' Defensive Camp Olimar and Meta Knight. Watching M2K's Meta Knight is one of the most boring, sluggish, un-hype things to watch ever.

If Brawl does rise from the graveyard, I believe that it will only meet it's downfall; This is because fights are taking to long.
My suggestion is, that Brawl should be played with the two stock rules of SSB4, and also shorten the time a bit to fit the stock changes.

It's funny because I honestly love M2K MK. It's my favorite thing to watch, and the one who really increased my passion on Smash.
M2K was really huge with his impact of MK metagame, from the begining of the scene until the "end".
People must understand that's defensive gameplay it's just another take in FGC. It's not a disgrace.
ZeRo played quite defensive with his Sheik (Smash4) some months ago. Completely different from VoiD/Mr.R, and better results.
Also, Brawl was played with 3-stock because people who played/watched had no problems at all with 8 minutes matches. It was like : "Yes, more Brawl". Some people talks like everybody was hating Brawl some years ago when in reality it was far more popular than Melee back then.
I have seriously problem watching Nairo going YOLO with his ZSS grabs, although he is marvelous with the reward. I would not say it's completely boring, since that are people who enjoys.
So please... playing defensive/camp is a valid thing. Get over it.

 

[Deleted member]

It's valid but nobody wants to see it. Get over it.

 

[Ekans647]

I really enjoy playing Brawl. To this day it is my favorite smash game. So I really hope this doc revives the scene. But I'm cautious. So let's see how things go and hope for the best.

 

[Deleted member]

I really enjoy playing Brawl. To this day it is my favorite smash game. So I really hope this doc revives the scene. But I'm cautious. So let's see how things go and hope for the best.

Personally, I don't really agree with the style of Brawl, and I don't like the Metaknight/Ice Climbers dominance (In fact I'm glad ICs are gone), however, I do think that it deserves to live on the basis of being a Smash Bros. game.

 

[Ekans647]

Personally, I don't really agree with the style of Brawl, and I don't like the Metaknight/Ice Climbers dominance (In fact I'm glad ICs are gone), however, I do think that it deserves to live on the basis of being a Smash Bros. game.

I agree with you on MK & IC. If Brawl were to come back, it would need to have a completely new competitive format, starting with the ban of these two (or at LEAST a suspect of IC).

 

[Zargasaurus]

I really enjoy playing Brawl. To this day it is my favorite smash game. So I really hope this doc revives the scene. But I'm cautious. So let's see how things go and hope for the best.

Do you play Online Brawl with wiimmfi?

 

[Ekans647]

No. I don't mod, aside from running hackless Project M. I mostly play online with my 3Ds, since I have no friends to play brawl with.

 

[Deleted member]

Has anyone ever considered a 3 stock 5 minute format? It would still have enough stocks for the game to develop and comebacks to occur, but would also encourage more offensive play.

 

[Zargasaurus]

Has anyone ever considered a 3 stock 5 minute format? It would still have enough stocks for the game to develop and comebacks to occur, but would also encourage more offensive play.

I don't think so, the Brawl community tried to do a one stock 3 minute set up before, and nothing seemed to get going because fights ended was hard to get engaged in the fight IMO like here for example: https://youtu.be/8Ng0H100pW8?t=1m54s. IK it was a mess up on Light's part, but it is like that in a lot of matches.
I play with two stocks and 5-6 minutes roughly because tbh, the 8 minute rules for Brawl as of today are way to long for anyone ever.
I will try the 5 minute three stock rules you mentioned in a while, and see how it goes.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think so, the Brawl community tried to do a one stock 3 minute set up before, and nothing seemed to get going because fights ended was hard to get engaged in the fight IMO like here for example: https://youtu.be/8Ng0H100pW8?t=1m54s. IK it was a mess up on Light's part, but it is like that in a lot of matches.
I play with two stocks and 5-6 minutes roughly because tbh, the 8 minute rules for Brawl as of today are way to long for anyone ever.
I will try the 5 minute three stock rules you mentioned in a while, and see how it goes.

Well of course 1 stock isn't going to work; the matches are either too long or too short.
1 Stock encourages campy, safe, and defensive play. With 1 stock there's not even a chance of a comeback, my setup would allow two chances, albeit was a shorter time frame to work in.

 

[Ekans647]

This is why I advocate for a stock format. With 2 stock, it encourages more aggressive play and is is more forgiving of crippling mistakes, without dragging on as long as 3 stock.

 

[Deleted member]

Valid point. I was watching some 2 stocks earlier, actually, they were quite interesting.

I do think we need to come up with a banlist though

My Ideal Banlist
Metaknight
Ice Climbers
Snake
Diddy
Zero Suit

My Reasoning
Metaknight: This one is obvious; Fast, Strong, and has nigh-unlimited Gimping/Killing/Recovery prowess. It's like Jigglypuff with Marth's Sword and King Dedede's Up-B for a neutral special, complete with Mewtwo's teleport for his Down-B and Assist Trophy Piplup's surf for his Side-B, not even counting his standard attacks which are more Supersonic than Sonic himself, and how all of his moves come out as quickly as a Fan attack with the power of a Beam Sword, having Sonic's Up-B for Jumps, and two Glides which can take him across Battlefield [twice] in the time it takes for some characters to recover once.

Ice Climbers: Another obvious one. While Ice Climbers may look fun and technical on the surface, once they land a grab it's over. And if you think you're good enough to avoid a grab, even if you are, it doesn't matter; Nana will desynch a Fair on you which will inexorably be followed up by a grab, thus ending your stock every time.

Snake: Snake is essentially like Ganondorf with projectiles, which is one of the most dangerous combinations there is. Snake, in essence, gets Ganondorf's extreme power, while also having tools to keep his opponents away like Samus, and approach with ease with DACUS. Snake's unrivaled stage control (and the ease to set it up), combined with his exceptional power, makes Snake a particularly cheap character, especially when the characters directly above him (Metaknight and ICs) are banned.

Diddy: Diddy Kong has a nigh-perfect blend of attributes; not only being Fast/Strong, but having multiple recovery options, Bananas, and B-Reversal tactics. A good Diddy Kong is almost impossible to hit, and, if you do hit one, you'll probably get punished for it anyway. Diddy Kong has amazing stage control prowess, and has both a dangerous onstage and offstage presence. Diddy Kong, in essence, has no weaknesses, and the only reason that he's not at the top of the tier list isn't because he has no flaws, but because the other characters' strengths outclass his own.

Zero Suit: This one is also obvious. Not only does she get an automatic advantage at the start of each match, but she can also paralyze you with two moves, combo you with Dash Attack, kill you with tilts, Side-Special, and Down-Special, and outspeed/outpower anything you try to throw at her. At the beginning of the match, She rivals Metaknight in power, but settles in between Snake and Diddy's level once her Armor pieces are gone.

Hopefully by removing these characters, Brawl can become a thrivent and diverse community again. Currently, Brawl is only hanging on by a thread of it's life, which means that these changes could potentially kill the scene, however, if they are received positively, it could be what brings Brawl back into relevancy. We, as a community, have to decide to take the risk, because, as it stands, Brawl won't be leaving it's current position anytime soon.

 

[Zargasaurus]

Sometimes I think that outsiders might try to avoid playing certain games if they have banned fighters because it makes the game feel imbalanced.
Does anyone else think this way?
Also Mario Smith, could you send the videos of the two stock matches if at all possible? if so, thanks .

 

[Deleted member]

Sometimes I think that outsiders might try to avoid playing certain games if they have banned fighters because it makes the game feel imbalanced.
Does anyone else think this way?
Also Mario Smith, could you send the videos of the two stock matches if at all possible? if so, thanks .

 

[Ekans647]

Valid point. I was watching some 2 stocks earlier, actually, they were quite interesting.

I do think we need to come up with a banlist though

My Ideal Banlist
Metaknight
Ice Climbers
Snake
Diddy
Zero Suit

My Reasoning
Metaknight: This one is obvious; Fast, Strong, and has nigh-unlimited Gimping/Killing/Recovery prowess. It's like Jigglypuff with Marth's Sword and King Dedede's Up-B for a neutral special, complete with Mewtwo's teleport for his Down-B and Assist Trophy Piplup's surf for his Side-B, not even counting his standard attacks which are more Supersonic than Sonic himself, and how all of his moves come out as quickly as a Fan attack with the power of a Beam Sword, having Sonic's Up-B for Jumps, and two Glides which can take him across Battlefield [twice] in the time it takes for some characters to recover once.

Ice Climbers: Another obvious one. While Ice Climbers may look fun and technical on the surface, once they land a grab it's over. And if you think you're good enough to avoid a grab, even if you are, it doesn't matter; Nana will desynch a Fair on you which will inexorably be followed up by a grab, thus ending your stock every time.

Snake: Snake is essentially like Ganondorf with projectiles, which is one of the most dangerous combinations there is. Snake, in essence, gets Ganondorf's extreme power, while also having tools to keep his opponents away like Samus, and approach with ease with DACUS. Snake's unrivaled stage control (and the ease to set it up), combined with his exceptional power, makes Snake a particularly cheap character, especially when the characters directly above him (Metaknight and ICs) are banned.

Diddy: Diddy Kong has a nigh-perfect blend of attributes; not only being Fast/Strong, but having multiple recovery options, Bananas, and B-Reversal tactics. A good Diddy Kong is almost impossible to hit, and, if you do hit one, you'll probably get punished for it anyway. Diddy Kong has amazing stage control prowess, and has both a dangerous onstage and offstage presence. Diddy Kong, in essence, has no weaknesses, and the only reason that he's not at the top of the tier list isn't because he has no flaws, but because the other characters' strengths outclass his own.

Zero Suit: This one is also obvious. Not only does she get an automatic advantage at the start of each match, but she can also paralyze you with two moves, combo you with Dash Attack, kill you with tilts, Side-Special, and Down-Special, and outspeed/outpower anything you try to throw at her. At the beginning of the match, She rivals Metaknight in power, but settles in between Snake and Diddy's level once her Armor pieces are gone.

Hopefully by removing these characters, Brawl can become a thrivent and diverse community again. Currently, Brawl is only hanging on by a thread of it's life, which means that these changes could potentially kill the scene, however, if they are received positively, it could be what brings Brawl back into relevancy. We, as a community, have to decide to take the risk, because, as it stands, Brawl won't be leaving it's current position anytime soon.

Immediately banning so many characters would be harmful to the meta. All of these characters are popular choices with developed metagames. Preventing from being played would only alienate players wanting to return to brawl. If Brawl is to be re-established, we need to have a strong foundation to build from.

That said, these character do dominate the meta. I would fully support a suspect test of these characters. For the meta to continue to grow after re-establishing itself, we need to give players an incentive to do so. If we suspect top characters, after Brawl has recovered, it gives way for other characters to develop their meta. Doing this will generate interest and become appealing to player by having a wider viable cast. If lower tier characters are developed enough, they might even be able to manage these dominating threats.

 

[Deleted member]

Immediately banning so many characters would be harmful to the meta. All of these characters are popular choices with developed metagames. Preventing from being played would only alienate players wanting to return to brawl. If Brawl is to be re-established, we need to have a strong foundation to build from.

That said, these character do dominate the meta. I would fully support a suspect test of these characters. For the meta to continue to grow after re-establishing itself, we need to give players an incentive to do so. If we suspect top characters, after Brawl has recovered, it gives way for other characters to develop their meta. Doing this will generate interest and become appealing to player by having a wider viable cast. If lower tier characters are developed enough, they might even be able to manage these dominating threats.

Well, it's all about finding a balance. If you keep playing the same matchup all the time, eventually, people will get bored and the viewers will decrease. That's why you only see the same 4 people playing the game; Interested spectators turn into players, so without spectators, your player count stagnates. In an ideal and realistic situation, Brawl would reemerge with about 10 or so players, then, upon seeing different and balanced matchups, the spectator count would gradually increase, turn into players, and the count would increase to 100, 200, 1,000. It won't happen overnight, true, but in due time, Brawl would (hopefully) return to it's former glory.

 

[Ekans647]

Well, it's all about finding a balance. If you keep playing the same matchup all the time, eventually, people will get bored and the viewers will decrease. That's why you only see the same 4 people playing the game; Interested spectators turn into players, so without spectators, your player count stagnates. In an ideal and realistic situation, Brawl would reemerge with about 10 or so players, then, upon seeing different and balanced matchups, the spectator count would gradually increase, turn into players, and the count would increase to 100, 200, 1,000. It won't happen overnight, true, but in due time, Brawl would (hopefully) return to it's former glory.

I 100% agree. However I think that we should make changes to the meta slowly. Having a 2-stock format initially will already have a large impact in the meta. From there, we should suspect characters after the game has a strong fanbase.

 

[New_Dumal]

Valid point. I was watching some 2 stocks earlier, actually, they were quite interesting.

I do think we need to come up with a banlist though

My Ideal Banlist
Metaknight
Ice Climbers
Snake
Diddy
Zero Suit

Are you insane? You want to ban 5 characters ? And ZSS ?
You need to understand that this five characters are some with the most complex and developed stuff, players, results.
You can't only ban everyone you think it's good because "I want to play with Falcon in Brawl" or something like that.
MK ban is controversial. Until the very end, he was proven not to be unbeatable. Overpowered ? Yes. But playable.
If any ban (I don't think it's needed, but maybe the most casual audience would prefer) , MK and IC's. AND ONLY.
There's absolute no reason to ban Snake, Diddy, and ZSS. Olimar is quite strong in Brawl and without MK would be even stronger, and yet you talk about ZSS ban. Snake ... who takes even D3 CG (to a extent, since the bomb can protect him).
So we should ban D3 too, because he polarizes the game too much ? No.It's not how it works.
Brawl was alright. MK and IC's were really too strong, but anything else is not even ban debatable.

 

[Zargasaurus]

You can't only ban everyone you think it's good because "I want to play with Falcon in Brawl" or something like that.

It's funny you say that, because I main Captain Falcon and have no problem fighting the higher tiers because it is by my choice alone that I play someone considerd to be a low tier, just saying...
I'm not saying that you were talking to me to begin with, I am just putting it out there.

 

[Deleted member]

Are you insane? You want to ban 5 characters ? And ZSS ?
You need to understand that this five characters are some with the most complex and developed stuff, players, results.
You can't only ban everyone you think it's good because "I want to play with Falcon in Brawl" or something like that.
MK ban is controversial. Until the very end, he was proven not to be unbeatable. Overpowered ? Yes. But playable.
If any ban (I don't think it's needed, but maybe the most casual audience would prefer) , MK and IC's. AND ONLY.
There's absolute no reason to ban Snake, Diddy, and ZSS. Olimar is quite strong in Brawl and without MK would be even stronger, and yet you talk about ZSS ban. Snake ... who takes even D3 CG (to a extent, since the bomb can protect him).
So we should ban D3 too, because he polarizes the game too much ? No.It's not how it works.
Brawl was alright. MK and IC's were really too strong, but anything else is not even ban debatable.

I didn't read all of your post, but I'll reply to the parts worth responding to;

First, I'm not a big Falcon guy, but I'll expound on him later (since you brought him up).

Also, it doesn't matter how developed they are. Those 5 characters are the reason why Brawl has no spectators. Nobody wants to see the same 5 characters over and over again. You're also contributing to the problem, as you evidently have Smash 4 Syndrome, which is where you think that everything is balanced even when it's clear things aren't. People say Corrin and Cloud in Smash 4 are balanced, just like you say Metaknight (0-death Knight), and Ice-Climbers (Infinite Chaingrab Climbers) are balanced. We're going to have to admit that some characters aren't fair if we want this game to survive.

 

[New_Dumal]

You're completely wrong if you think those 5 characters are the reason why Brawl has "no spectators" (untrue).
Brawl have a lot of problems, although still is my favorite Smash game.
Do you know that the characters you listed aren't even the top5 of the game, right ?
Why you should ban ZSS or Diddy, and Falco and Olimar be allowed ?
Again, Olimar is a beast in MK-ban ruleset. Much more scarier than ZSS.
Your logic is flawed here and I don't want to disrespect, but let's say you're ...a lot... wrong.
If you think Brawl need to be balanced to be funny to play or watch, forget about it.
Brawl is not balanced for many, many factors, and will be need much more than 5 characters ban to resolve it.


(I sincerely don't care about balance if I have at least ONE single character that is fun to play. That's the reason why I don't like Smash4 that much, since I can't find it there. Brawl MK dittos alone was more complex/deep than the sum of half of smash4 characters right now.This part is completely personal, I just wanted to leave it there).

It's funny you say that, because I main Captain Falcon and have no problem fighting the higher tiers because it is by my choice alone that I play someone considerd to be a low tier, just saying...
I'm not saying that you were talking to me to begin with, I am just putting it out there.

One of my best friends in the scene (the person I played the most of Brawl in the last years) used to main Falcon.
His Falcon was quite good, and he really showed me what the character can do. It's sad that was really hard for him to fight against my Pit, and almost impossible if I switch to MK. He switched to Wolf in the scene last days, another fun character.
I agree completely and like what you said "I play a low tier and I know about it, that's my choice." Keep it up !

 

[Whirlpool]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hahkg-IwgrM

idea stealers....

KappaRoss