Is the debate hall dead?

[Erimir]

Just asking, it doesn't seem like anyone really posts in there. I was around during the pre-Brawl period, and there was a lot more activity back then.

Seems that the barrier to entry/commitment required to post there isn't really worth it, which is probably why it doesn't have almost any activity anymore.

 

[ndayday]

Maybe it's just me but activity in all the extra forums has died down a lot.

 

[SharkAttack]

I haven't checked the Debate Hall in awhile. I guess people just aren't posting like they used to. I'm sure the majority will come back at some point possibly and that it is just a down time at the moment.

As for barrier for entry/commitment...I see it as a two way street. On the one hand it might limit the amount of people who post that could potentially make it better, but on the other it really has helped keep away spam/garbage type posts. I enjoy the quality of the debate thread from what I've read. A lot of times the posters that make great points have information to back their views up. I'm sure the barrier requirement isn't too bothersome to get through to have Debate Hall access if a Smashboards member has quality input towards a topic to make a debate lively.

 

[Erimir]

Well, the thing about it is that I think I'm a good debater, but the way it's set up, I can't just jump in on a topic when I see one that interests me. It's not worth it to spend time debating subjects I'm not interested in in order to prove my worthiness.

I understand wanting to keep out the rabble for the sake of less moderation, I just think they've gone way too far in that direction. Hence why the debate hall section is dead. It's not interesting and it doesn't have enough people to keep it going.

I'm also not sure that, if the debate hall were getting more activity, that it would actually be less work. It would probably be easier and result in a more vibrant subsection if they simply banned or suspended people who can't contribute significantly to debates or don't want to, etc. That is, if they banned them from the debate section, not from the entire board.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Getting into the Debate Hall isn't really all that hard. Just debate enough and show you can be serious and competent. That said, activity has died down significantly, but so has everywhere else really.

 

[Volodya]

GOD IS DEAD COME FIGHT ME RIGHT HERE
YEAH

Spoiler

no not really, come on now

 

[Comeback Kid]

In the proving grounds forum you seem to have three options:

1. Bump a really old thread, in which the chances of debate being reignited are slim.

2. Start a new topic, in which the chances that other people are going to engage you in a debate that is more than a few posts long is also pretty slim.

3. Wait for a decent topic to come up, which barely happens these days.

So really, I agree with OP why bother? Just posting on the general discussion forum makes more sense.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

OP you're wrong in assuming that barrier entrance requirements killed a niche forum. If you check the Debate Hall Archives, the thread to post frequency has always been flimsy with an extremely high ration given to... religious threads prior to 2008. Therefore your observation that 'there was a lot more activity back then' is nostalgia pandering or a love for seeing content-less thread crowding. Seeing as how you used the word 'commitment' to describe pressing a button to send a request to join the temp d. user group & waiting less than 24 hours as well as your join date back in 2001 I'm going to presume that there was a point where the Debate Hall was an open post forum. Where the archives show, it was also as relatively dead as its current counterpart.

If you can't click two buttons to join the temp debater group and wait less than 24 hours to post, then I think that we have a different take on the word 'interest' as excerpted from, '... I can't just jump in on a topic when I see one that interests me.' Expecting people in a sub-forum to have the patience to push two buttons and to wait for a system response shouldn't be seen as a barrier. Especially when that's one more click than [post reply] and waiting for the system to process your request is something that is a norm. Debates shouldn't be knee-jerk free gun em' ups between two ignorant parties because that easily devolves into insults and has no educative value. Debates are intrinsically meaningless and the word internet debate itself suffices as an insult attributing to how easily discussions can fall apart into drivel, especially when they involve intellectually vacuous subjects like religion. The value-gain from a debate come when facts are put on the table because objectivity is cross-applicable to numerous subjective opinions whereas subjective opinions do not have the same versatility and importance outside of your own brain and in the hands of someone else trying to make a valid argument. If someone doesn't bother to wait 24 hours max to join a subforum, then I'd have to say that I'm sort of skeptical that this type of person would have the patience to fact check their own opinions before they post something that is just personal opinion garbage.

If you don't want to put in the time and effort to get into the Proving Ground then you shouldn't bother, they are likely too pretentious to enjoy the high quality unrestricted opinions you have inside that brain of yours. You should just post in the Pool Room like Comeback Kid just said, there's no point in being part of an exclusive club if you don't think the exclusive club has the meritus you think it deserves and the bar is one that isn't worth the effort for you to climb.

 

[Deathconsciousness]

OP you're wrong in assuming that barrier entrance requirements killed a niche forum. If you check the Debate Hall Archives, the thread to post frequency has always been flimsy with an extremely high ration given to... religious threads prior to 2008. Therefore your observation that 'there was a lot more activity back then' is nostalgia pandering or a love for seeing content-less thread crowding. Seeing as how you used the word 'commitment' to describe pressing a button to send a request to join the temp d. user group & waiting less than 24 hours as well as your join date back in 2001 I'm going to presume that there was a point where the Debate Hall was an open post forum. Where the archives show, it was also as relatively dead as its current counterpart.

If you can't click two buttons to join the temp debater group and wait less than 24 hours to post, then I think that we have a different take on the word 'interest' as excerpted from, '... I can't just jump in on a topic when I see one that interests me.' Expecting people in a sub-forum to have the patience to push two buttons and to wait for a system response shouldn't be seen as a barrier. Especially when that's one more click than [post reply] and waiting for the system to process your request is something that is a norm. Debates shouldn't be knee-jerk free gun em' ups between two ignorant parties because that easily devolves into insults and has no educative value. Debates are intrinsically meaningless and the word internet debate itself suffices as an insult attributing to how easily discussions can fall apart into drivel, especially when they involve intellectually vacuous subjects like religion. The value-gain from a debate come when facts are put on the table because objectivity is cross-applicable to numerous subjective opinions whereas subjective opinions do not have the same versatility and importance outside of your own brain and in the hands of someone else trying to make a valid argument. If someone doesn't bother to wait 24 hours max to join a subforum, then I'd have to say that I'm sort of skeptical that this type of person would have the patience to fact check their own opinions before they post something that is just personal opinion garbage.

If you don't want to put in the time and effort to get into the Proving Ground then you shouldn't bother, they are likely too pretentious to enjoy the high quality unrestricted opinions you have inside that brain of yours. You should just post in the Pool Room like Comeback Kid just said, there's no point in being part of an exclusive club if you don't think the exclusive club has the meritus you think it deserves and the bar is one that isn't worth the effort for you to climb.

cool novel dude.

nah i don't think it's dead.

 

[Erimir]

Therefore your observation that 'there was a lot more activity back then' is nostalgia pandering or a love for seeing content-less thread crowding.

Uncharitable interpretations, ho! You don't really have any justification for such claims but go ahead and put more words in my mouth. Oh, I see that you did.

If you can't click two buttons to join the temp debater group and wait less than 24 hours to post, then I think that we have a different take on the word 'interest' as excerpted from, '... I can't just jump in on a topic when I see one that interests me.'

The Proving Grounds and the Debate Hall are not exactly the same, are they? If the thread of interest is in the Debate Hall, then no, I cannot jump in after a mere 24 hours.

Also, the use of the phrase "jump in" does not imply anything about the level of thought put into my posts. It is referring to my relation to the conversation, i.e. that I'm joining into a conversation that was taking place between strangers. I suppose if I were more like you, I would've said "interject" for the sake of using a less common word.

Debates shouldn't be knee-jerk free gun em' ups between two ignorant parties because that easily devolves into insults and has no educative value.

What does that have to do with anything I said?

Nothing I said could be construed to mean that I think debates should be that way.

Debates are intrinsically meaningless and the word internet debate itself suffices as an insult attributing to how easily discussions can fall apart into drivel, especially when they involve intellectually vacuous subjects like religion.

Debates are intrinsically meaningless? Not only is this a ridiculous statement that you contradict but one sentence later, it also is irrelevant.

While I'm an atheist, I don't think that debates about religion are necessarily intellectually vacuous either.

The value-gain from a debate come when facts are put on the table because objectivity is cross-applicable to numerous subjective opinions whereas subjective opinions do not have the same versatility and importance outside of your own brain and in the hands of someone else trying to make a valid argument.

Cool story bro. Your unnecessarily convoluted wording of what is actually a pretty trivial observation does not impress me. It just demonstrates that you are a poor writer or purposefully obfuscatory.

If you don't want to put in the time and effort to get into the Proving Ground then you shouldn't bother, they are likely too pretentious to enjoy the high quality unrestricted opinions you have inside that brain of yours.

If you're representative of the population of the sub-forum, I will agree that they are too pretentious. I am skeptical that everyone in there could be as pretentious as this though.


But I will be nice and help you be less pretentious. Here are some pointers so that your use of big words will be good for more than just overawing the illiterate.

"Ration" refers to an allotment, it does not refer to simply a proportion. A high proportion of the posts were given to religious topics, not a high ration.

"Educational" is the normal word. "Educative" is synonymous and does not provide you any greater clarity. I assume your only purpose in choosing it was to sound smarter by using a less common word. However, it just sounds pretentious.

Nitpicky, but "internet debate" is a phrase, not a word.

I don't think that "suffice" is the best word for what you mean there either. "Suffice" means it is adequate for that. I don't think you meant that "internet debate" is adequate for being an insult, but that it has such a poor reputation that it is commonly recognized as one.

Your use of "attribute" is even more off the mark. "Attribute" is a transitive verb concerning thought, which means it needs a subject capable of cognition and a direct object. Your use of it lacks both a thinking subject and a direct object. I think "attributable to" is probably what you intended. But you probably should've just stuck to a simple and clear word or phrase, like "due to".

I don't think you meant "reality" when you said "objectivity", and "objectivity" is not equivalent to "objective facts". The "cross" in "cross-applicable" is a meaningless flourish which adds nothing to the sentence which is not already obvious from the fact that you're applying it to "numerous subjective opinions".

Speaking of which, opinions are inherently subjective. It is redundant to say "subjective opinions" over and over unless your goal is simply to stuff more large words into your sentence.

I'm not really sure where you got the term "meritus", unless you simply meant "merits". Even so, I can't make sense of it. Perhaps you meant "if you don't think the exclusive club merits such exclusivity"?

Also, do you always give such baseless insults (indirect though they were) upon first meeting? Ironically while in the same post you are admonishing others for being supposedly too impatient to check facts and quick to post "personal opinion garbage". Apparently such admonitions do not apply to yourself or your evaluations of others.

 

[Jam Stunna]

OP you're wrong in assuming that barrier entrance requirements killed a niche forum. If you check the Debate Hall Archives, the thread to post frequency has always been flimsy with an extremely high ration given to... religious threads prior to 2008. Therefore your observation that 'there was a lot more activity back then' is nostalgia pandering or a love for seeing content-less thread crowding. Seeing as how you used the word 'commitment' to describe pressing a button to send a request to join the temp d. user group & waiting less than 24 hours as well as your join date back in 2001 I'm going to presume that there was a point where the Debate Hall was an open post forum. Where the archives show, it was also as relatively dead as its current counterpart.

If you can't click two buttons to join the temp debater group and wait less than 24 hours to post, then I think that we have a different take on the word 'interest' as excerpted from, '... I can't just jump in on a topic when I see one that interests me.' Expecting people in a sub-forum to have the patience to push two buttons and to wait for a system response shouldn't be seen as a barrier. Especially when that's one more click than [post reply] and waiting for the system to process your request is something that is a norm. Debates shouldn't be knee-jerk free gun em' ups between two ignorant parties because that easily devolves into insults and has no educative value. Debates are intrinsically meaningless and the word internet debate itself suffices as an insult attributing to how easily discussions can fall apart into drivel, especially when they involve intellectually vacuous subjects like religion. The value-gain from a debate come when facts are put on the table because objectivity is cross-applicable to numerous subjective opinions whereas subjective opinions do not have the same versatility and importance outside of your own brain and in the hands of someone else trying to make a valid argument. If someone doesn't bother to wait 24 hours max to join a subforum, then I'd have to say that I'm sort of skeptical that this type of person would have the patience to fact check their own opinions before they post something that is just personal opinion garbage.

If you don't want to put in the time and effort to get into the Proving Ground then you shouldn't bother, they are likely too pretentious to enjoy the high quality unrestricted opinions you have inside that brain of yours. You should just post in the Pool Room like Comeback Kid just said, there's no point in being part of an exclusive club if you don't think the exclusive club has the meritus you think it deserves and the bar is one that isn't worth the effort for you to climb.

Erimir, you want to be a part of this?

 

[Erimir]

I saw some threads in the Debate Hall (not the Proving Grounds) that looked interesting. I'm also including some from back in the pre-Brawl period.

I think you can see why I didn't think it was worth it to "prove" myself just to get the honor of posting in the Debate Hall. It's not that I don't think I measure up, it's that it requires some time commitment by posting frequently enough in the Proving Grounds to be noticed by the Debate Hall mods.

Debates on a Smash Bros fan forum really aren't that srs bsns y'all. Hence why I was suggesting the Debate Hall would be more vibrant and worthwhile to include in the board if they were a bit less restrictive and changed their presumption from "You're not worthy to be in the Debate Hall until you prove it" to "If you prove not to be worthy to be in the Debate Hall or unable to follow the rules, we will remove you."

Also, not sure if this came before or after the current Debate Hall rules, but I randomly saw this video online of a dramatic reading of a post that happened to be from the Smash Boards Debate Hall.

 

[Pachinkosam]

The debate hall is awesome but it makes my head hurt

 

[ndayday]

this has turned into
Is the debate hall dead?: Debate Hall edition

 

[Claire Diviner]

I saw some threads in the Debate Hall (not the Proving Grounds) that looked interesting. I'm also including some from back in the pre-Brawl period.

I think you can see why I didn't think it was worth it to "prove" myself just to get the honor of posting in the Debate Hall. It's not that I don't think I measure up, it's that it requires some time commitment by posting frequently enough in the Proving Grounds to be noticed by the Debate Hall mods.

Debates on a Smash Bros fan forum really aren't that srs bsns y'all. Hence why I was suggesting the Debate Hall would be more vibrant and worthwhile to include in the board if they were a bit less restrictive and changed their presumption from "You're not worthy to be in the Debate Hall until you prove it" to "If you prove not to be worthy to be in the Debate Hall or unable to follow the rules, we will remove you."

Also, not sure if this came before or after the current Debate Hall rules, but I randomly saw this video online of a dramatic reading of a post that happened to be from the Smash Boards Debate Hall.

You know the same thing can be said for the backrooms from those who want to get in, right? Once you're in, you don't need to show as much commitment as you imply; just as long as you show you're still alive somewhere, even if it's once in a blue. If you can show that you're a competent debater without throwing childish insults to and fro, and also back up what you say with - bare minimum - decent sources, getting in isn't as hard as it looks. I mean, I've seen people get in just because they gave insightful posts in the Pool Room's Current Events board, if that is anything to go by.

 

[Mewter]

Debates on a Smash Bros fan forum really aren't that srs bsns y'all. Hence why I was suggesting the Debate Hall would be more vibrant and worthwhile to include in the board if they were a bit less restrictive and changed their presumption from "You're not worthy to be in the Debate Hall until you prove it" to "If you prove not to be worthy to be in the Debate Hall or unable to follow the rules, we will remove you."

Just relinquish every iota of conviction that you possess of ever being inducted into our illustrious forum of philosophy, Erimir. You shall not be granted the possibility of even a nighttime celestial object reflective of 470 nm electromagnetic bosons to be even a fraction as intellectually boundless as us real Smash Debaters. Even the very thought that you of the (mediocre) name Eremir need bring this issue to light only empirically shows that you shall never logically be capable of handling and nurturing a domesticated hedgehog. Agathokakological. Antidisestablishmentarianism. Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän.

Honor? Ha! Thou hast none.

Retreat, brethren, for we have no business with the hoi polloi. Our culture cannot bear any additional sludge from this cancerous commoner, this tumorous blight upon our holy boards.

 

[Erimir]

The thread was not about whether I think the standards are too high for me to get in in the first place.

I was wondering why the Debate Hall has practically no activity (last post in Debate Hall from April, only a handful of posts in the Proving Grounds in the past month) and I was suggesting that this was because of the rules for posting in it.

The lack of activity also makes it less worthwhile for people to bother trying to get into it, further compounding the problem.

I've been on other boards of a similar size that were dedicated to hobbies and things, and the ones that had debate forums all had considerably more activity. While there were obviously some poor quality posts in there, the quality really was not nearly as low as Acrostic implies it would be with more lenient rules. Talking about whether I'm not good enough or too lazy doesn't explain why it's so dead on a board that gets hundreds of posts every day. There's an explanation for it that has nothing to do with me.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

It would probably be easier and result in a more vibrant subsection if they simply banned or suspended people who can't contribute significantly to debates or don't want to, etc. That is, if they banned them from the debate section, not from the entire board.

This actually was the case for a while. Around 2008, a modestly well written essay or a short thesis was required for entry before they transitioned into a trial style of moderating. At the time anyone even mildly trolling was removed. I managed to gain entry to the Debate Hall by not presenting myself as an idiot when I sent a request to a mod.

As for barrier for entry/commitment...I see it as a two way street. On the one hand it might limit the amount of people who post that could potentially make it better, but on the other it really has helped keep away spam/garbage type posts.

Most people do not belong in the Debate Hall. Most people either don't come from a background or are not used to an atmosphere where critical thinking is the norm, much less a strict requirement. Achieving entry to the Debate Hall is currently inconsequential. The administrators may believe they did everyone a favor by creating the Proving Grounds, but all they did was provide a cheap alternative to the Debate Hall.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Just relinquish every iota of conviction that you possess of ever being inducted into our illustrious forum of philosophy, Erimir. You shall not be granted the possibility of even a nighttime celestial object reflective of 470 nm electromagnetic bosons to be even a fraction as intellectually boundless as us real Smash Debaters. Even the very thought that you of the (mediocre) name Eremir need bring this issue to light only empirically shows that you shall never logically be capable of handling and nurturing a domesticated hedgehog. Agathokakological. Antidisestablishmentarianism. Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän.

Honor? Ha! Thou hast none.

Retreat, brethren, for we have no business with the hoi polloi. Our culture cannot bear any additional sludge from this cancerous commoner, this tumorous blight upon our holy boards.

Come now, no need to actually insult him, Mewter

The thread was not about whether I think the standards are too high for me to get in in the first place.

I was wondering why the Debate Hall has practically no activity (last post in Debate Hall from April, only a handful of posts in the Proving Grounds in the past month) and I was suggesting that this was because of the rules for posting in it.

The lack of activity also makes it less worthwhile for people to bother trying to get into it, further compounding the problem.

I've been on other boards of a similar size that were dedicated to hobbies and things, and the ones that had debate forums all had considerably more activity. While there were obviously some poor quality posts in there, the quality really was not nearly as low as Acrostic implies it would be with more lenient rules. Talking about whether I'm not good enough or too lazy doesn't explain why it's so dead on a board that gets hundreds of posts every day. There's an explanation for it that has nothing to do with me.

I dunno, I was a temp debater for quite a while, but kept putting off trying to actually get into the DH. Then about some time last year, I finally went to the Center Stage in the Proving Grounds, debated away, and managed to get in, all the while activity was rather dead. While it appears even more dead now, the fact of the matter is, it's not impossible to get in, nor is it pointless to those who really want it. Admittedly, I do miss my pink name back when Smashboards was using the older servers, but that's a minor nitpick.

 

[Teran]

Wait until Smash 4 comes out, it will overflow with threads again as the new wave of teenagers with a chip on their shoulder start arguing over if God exists.

 

[Deathconsciousness]

god doesn't exist doe

 

[Claire Diviner]

Wait until Smash 4 comes out, it will overflow with threads again as the new wave of teenagers with a chip on their shoulder start arguing over if God exists.

And I'll be there to spectate their inevitable collapse. At least activity should increase.

 

[ndayday]

Wait until Smash 4 comes out, it will overflow with threads again as the new wave of teenagers with a chip on their shoulder start arguing over if God exists.

I wish they brought back the light pink name, then we'd really be getting somewhere in terms of interest in debating. I don't know if something as small as a postbit is worth it.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I wish they brought back the light pink name, then we'd really be getting somewhere in terms of interest in debating. I don't know if something as small as a postbit is worth it.

Admittedly, I actually became a debater because I wanted the pink name, seeing as it matched my avatar at the time. Even then, I also like knowing I can give my insight and two cents on any given topic whenever I feel I should. Also, the scales postbit is pretty nice too, in my opinion. That's just me though.

 

[Lore]

Same here. Then I got kicked out because I was an idiot.I got back in, but the pink name is gone now.

 

[Erimir]

...What's a postbit?

 

[Lore]

The small icons below your avatar and other information. I have a grimer for being in the BRoom (Not the smash BRoom, mind. The good one.) and scales for being in the debate hall.

 

[Erimir]

Aha.

You know, for some reason I assumed that was a zodiac thing. Lots of Libras around.

 

[Lore]

Haha, nope. You can get all sorts of postbits for various little things.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

OP tbh I don't think you have any interest in joining the forum. If you did, then you would find that getting access to the PG would take less than a day. Also you are correct, the PG isn't the whole subforum, but the PG is where the majority of the content in the DH lies. Most of the DH has realized that restrictive content is a #1 issue and have even made groups that have discussed reworking the entire system to add more people. There have been cases in the DH where popular threads have been reposted in the PG in order for them to have a chance to discuss it. This perhaps framed the tone of my response. Everything in the DH has been to cater to allowing people in, bar making the forum completely free access.

Even access to the DH after gaining access to the PG can be as simple as sharing a personal thesis, a post from another forum board, or any personal musing that you have on your hard drive. The process isn't meant to post grind or to be snotty (not targeted at anything you said, but a comment based on sarcastic/negative rxns in the thread). If you put in the same eye you took to cut down my post then you would see that the issue isn't with restrictions. Who really wants to have a debate?

From what I've seen, it's an incredibly niche interest that doesn't apply to many people without having an incentive like a pink colored name or scales underneath your avatar. Although there were great posters who used to be active and share a lot, the forum died when they scaled back their activity combined with a majority of the members using the board for a post-bit and colored title.

I came across as pretentious and the reason for that is because I believe you made this topic without having an interest in the D-boards. I'm sorry for jumping a gun that was not jumped.