Is Olimar a decent main/secondary?

[WINK ;)]

Olimar is the only character I know next to nothing about in Project Melee. I am genuinely curious what Olimar's pros and cons are. Obviously this is a biased discussion in a sense since its in the Olimar Character Discussion but tell me what makes Olimar good and bad?

I have been to several tournaments and I haven't seen anyone use him at all. He seems pretty cool just no one uses him.

 

[NightShadow6]

He kind of equalizes the whole cast meaning he can do the same basic combos with the right line up. Only thing that makes Olimar bad is his literally broken recovery.

He also kind of falls apart to spacies a little bit, but you can deal with those fairly well.

 

[WINK ;)]

He kind of equalizes the whole cast meaning he can do the same basic combos with the right line up. Only thing that makes Olimar bad is his literally broken recovery.

He also kind of falls apart to spacies a little bit, but you can deal with those fairly well.

Yeah I know, his recovery is hit or miss.... I don't know if its a bug or not but he will not grab the ledge for me ever. Hahaha.
I dont want to main him or anything but he is fun to play in friendlies.... but damn. He never grabs it. WHY?!

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

He kind of equalizes the whole cast meaning he can do the same basic combos with the right line up. Only thing that makes Olimar bad is his literally broken recovery.

He also kind of falls apart to spacies a little bit, but you can deal with those fairly well.

There is more than that. Here is some more details
Pros:
Good usmash that turns into combos or a free grab
Decent/good combos depending on pikmin line up
Decent throws
Tilts are good, but usmash beats utilt in most ways. Ftilt is an amazing edge guard move. Dtilt can setup after 42% for edge guards so, dtilt>fair>let it begin
Purple pikmin can gimp just by tossing them
Free follow up after Pikmin slide(SH side b waveland)
Pikmin slide can also be used to retreat
Doesn't demand a lot of tech skill
Good edge guard skill set
A projectile that can beat a lot of other projectiles
Decent DD it's wide but slow
He can mix up his recovery and drop from his down b just to do it again, so he has some options
Good recovery
Having people above you is the best place to be
Chain grab on certain characters
Flowered yellow has more hit stun
Flowered whites cause poison and how much depends on said moves (which is to dam ez to remove)
Flowered purples have the best KB
Flowered reds are a nerfed purple
Flowered blues are basically the normal pikmin

Cons:
Good weight to combo
Nothing to really save you from combos
Sub par normals
(Nvm)
Your pikmin take half a minute to flower and 15 sec to bud
When being knocked into a tumbling state, your pikmin tend to fall off and die
Pikmin die quickly
Your pikmin can be knocked into a blastzone/off screen and take a while to come back, even when you whistle
When you fsmash near the ledge you can't whistle that pikmin back
He can't deal with pressure well, especially against aggressive players or characters
You can't alter the arch at which you throw your pikmin at all
Your spike is so slow, you can't combo into and have to bait people for it to work(unless some flowered yellow atk works that I don't know about)

All in all, this is a low tier character you're walking into, you probably don't wanna pick this guy up, till he gets buffed. But if you like the character and his design, I ain't stoppin you.

 

[WINK ;)]

There is more than that. Here is some more details
Pros:
Good usmash that turns into combos or a free grab
Decent/good combos depending on pikmin line up
Decent throws
Tilts are good, but usmash beats utilt in most ways. Ftilt is an amazing edge guard move. Dtilt can setup after 42% for edge guards so, dtilt>fair>let it begin
Purple pikmin can gimp just by tossing them
Free follow up after Pikmin slide(SH side b waveland)
Pikmin slide can also be used to retreat
Doesn't demand a lot of tech skill
Good edge guard skill set
A projectile that can beat a lot of other projectiles
Decent DD it's wide but slow
He can mix up his recovery and drop from his down b just to do it again, so he has some options
Good recovery
Having people above you is the best place to be
Chain grab on certain characters
Flowered yellow has more hit stun
Flowered whites cause poison and how much depends on said moves (which is to dam ez to remove)
Flowered purples have the best KB
Flowered reds are a nerfed purple
Flowered blues are basically the normal pikmin

Cons:
Good weight to combo
Nothing to really save you from combos
Sub par normals
Slowish aireals
Your pikmin take half a minute to flower and 15 sec to bud
When being knocked into a tumbling state, your pikmin tend to fall off and die
Pikmin die quickly
Your pikmin can be knocked into a blastzone/off screen and take a while to come back, even when you whistle
When you fsmash near the ledge you can't whistle that pikmin back
He can't deal with pressure well, especially against aggressive players or characters
You can't alter the arch at which you throw your pikmin at all
Your spike is so slow, you can't combo into and have to bait people for it to work(unless some flowered yellow atk works that I don't know about)

All in all, this is a low tier character you're walking into, you probably don't wanna pick this guy up, till he gets buffed. But if you like the character and his design, I ain't stoppin you.

Ahhh, wow! Thanks so much! No I mean I dont wanna pick him up but I was just curious. He is so underplayed its not even funny.... hahaha. No one even plays this guy as a joke. But thanks so much! This was helpful to help me mess around with the character.

 

[WINK ;)]

Another thing, I really doubt this character will really be buffed too much in the future because there is no demand.... They might take time limit off of their budding, more damage, more pikmin health which are pretty big buffs but they wont do anything too crazy like 5/6 pikmin or a recovery that ****ing works.... Hahaha. But oh well, it does not effect me, its just sad cause every character has a following.

 

[Pika_thunder]

Short answer, No.

 

[WINK ;)]

Short answer, No.

Thank you for the in depth response.
Any feedback is good feedback

 

[Will-O-Wisp]

The Pikmin AI is reeeeeaaally awkward; it seems they go haywire once hit. Plus Olimar doesn't really fit into the PM meta which is more about speed and fluidity, whereas Olimar is clunky. The concept of the character is cool, but it's gonna be an uphill battle for Olimar for a while.

 

[WINK ;)]

The Pikmin AI is reeeeeaaally awkward; it seems they go haywire once hit. Plus Olimar doesn't really fit into the PM meta which is more about speed and fluidity, whereas Olimar is clunky. The concept of the character is cool, but it's gonna be an uphill battle for Olimar for a while.

You put all my complicated thoughts into three sentences. Thank you!

 

[NiPPs]

idk i feel that olimar fits right into the game and easily keeps up with the speed of high level games. his new moves give incentive for a physical game instead of camping like his brawl counterpart. he can still play very campy though but the lack of grab armor reduces this capability tremendously. hes nowhere near the top of the cast and if hes lucky, he can be in the top 15. his fair is amazing and quick and his downsmash leads to a lot of surprise kills/gimps/landed attacks. his nair has very high priority and is a great oos option/combo starter. dair his a little slow and i feel should possibly be sped up a bit but isn't necessary. his grab game is amazing as usual but not as good as it was in brawl(due to the lack of armor/decreased length). he has above average tech chasing imo and can rack up damage very fast. pikmin ai does need to be touched up a bit though.

 

[Will-O-Wisp]

idk i feel that olimar fits right into the game and easily keeps up with the speed of high level games. his new moves give incentive for a physical game instead of camping like his brawl counterpart. he can still play very campy though but the lack of grab armor reduces this capability tremendously. hes nowhere near the top of the cast and if hes lucky, he can be in the top 15. his fair is amazing and quick and his downsmash leads to a lot of surprise kills/gimps/landed attacks. his nair has very high priority and is a great oos option/combo starter. dair his a little slow and i feel should possibly be sped up a bit but isn't necessary. his grab game is amazing as usual but not as good as it was in brawl(due to the lack of armor/decreased length). he has above average tech chasing imo and can rack up damage very fast. pikmin ai does need to be touched up a bit though.

Although I agree with everything here, it's just that I feel those tools don't really complement the character that is Olimar. PMBR changed his aerials so that they'd fit a more in your face fighter, and the grab game is good too. But the specials and some of the tilts feel more like defensive/spacing tools than offensive ones, and it really creates a contradiction. In other words his moves don't really connect in my mind. When I play Wolf, every move complements the other, same with Mario, but with Olimar they don't do that. Maybe it's just me though.

 

[NiPPs]

Although I agree with everything here, it's just that I feel those tools don't really complement the character that is Olimar. PMBR changed his aerials so that they'd fit a more in your face fighter, and the grab game is good too. But the specials and some of the tilts feel more like defensive/spacing tools than offensive ones, and it really creates a contradiction. In other words his moves don't really connect in my mind. When I play Wolf, every move complements the other, same with Mario, but with Olimar they don't do that. Maybe it's just me though.

no its not just you. i feel his up tilt is too slow on small-medium sized people and side tilt comes out to slow also to be truly effective(although it has a lot of kill power now). Olimars down tilt is amazing though as it leads to combos at small percents, kills at higher percents, and avoids some attacks in certain scenarios. i really don't like olimars tilts other than down tilt. he doesnt have the best move set but he can pull off some cool things at 0% like up tilt>up tilt>nair>fair>d-tilt or down smash depending on di>fair if you hit them with down tilt. everything else he does is basically a juggle with up airs or *insert move here* to fair for kills so your definately right about him not having i guess you can say fluid moves. i wouldnt know what to replace his side and up tilt with though :/

 

[WINK ;)]

Have his grabs been nerfed? They had to have been.
Also, Idk, I really feel like he does not fit in as much as the others. I like how he doesn't have to camp but still..... He feels slow and sluggish. With the less pikmin and slower plucking pikmin just makes it a little difficult for him when he loses his pikmin which is every second. Olimar throws his pikmin off stage all thetime.

 

[NiPPs]

Have his grabs been nerfed? They had to have been.
Also, Idk, I really feel like he does not fit in as much as the others. I like how he doesn't have to camp but still..... He feels slow and sluggish. With the less pikmin and slower plucking pikmin just makes it a little difficult for him when he loses his pikmin which is every second. Olimar throws his pikmin off stage all thetime.

yeah the range the grabs go now are shorter and he has no grab armor so if you get a hit out while your been grabbed olimar will get knocked back instead of taking the damage but still being able to grab you. i don't think hes slow at all. his wave dash is decent and his dash speed is perfect for dding and pivot grabbing. if your losing your pikmin every second you should be more conservative instead of spamming throws if that's what you're doing otherwise idk what to tell you. pikmin death hasnt really been a problem for me as of now.

 

[WINK ;)]

yeah the range the grabs go now are shorter and he has no grab armor so if you get a hit out while your been grabbed olimar will get knocked back instead of taking the damage but still being able to grab you. i don't think hes slow at all. his wave dash is decent and his dash speed is perfect for dding and pivot grabbing. if your losing your pikmin every second you should be more conservative instead of spamming throws if that's what you're doing otherwise idk what to tell you. pikmin death hasnt really been a problem for me as of now.

I am not saying I lose them per say. Just pikmin die fast it seems and the whistle does not make them come back like it use to is what I am trying to get at.

 

[NiPPs]

yeah to be honest it might be a programming error that hasnt been fixed yet. hopefully theyll do something about it

 

[Will-O-Wisp]

They should just start with fixing (or if it's not errors, improving) Pikmin AI so that they are more responsive to the whistle. I understand that Pikmin have to have some period of time where they are vulnerable, but honestly a good opponent will just kill them as they being thrown via SideB. There's really no need for so much spaz time for the Pikmin.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

Is it just me or is Olimars attacks gennerally slower? It feels like his F Smash is slower although the purple goes farther. Obviously his dair is slower, and his D Smash feels a tad slower and goes out shorter. Honestly, I almost always get punished for hitting with a jab or U tilt. F tilt is really hard to hit in combat and seems like its best used for an edge guard change up. His Pluck is slower as well as his Pikmin throw.

It really just seems odd to me that they slowed him down in many aspects but put him in an environment that is faster. He generally does alright but it kinda depends on who your fighting against. If they don't play aggro, then you probably have an advantage, but if they are aggro, your kind of screwed. You never know if you'll get screwed from the buggy Pikmin recovery.

 

[WINK ;)]

That recovery is so bad..... or its fine! I feel like it depends on what stage you are on.

 

[KForce1Luca]

Just to add on things that may or may not have already been said, if there is three things that really aggrivate me about Olimar, its his missing armor for whistle, at times, his Recovery Dysfunction, and his DAir.
-That armor was a staple of Brawl Olimar and could've helped him play more aggressively, not to mention live longer offstage without your Pikmin deciding to not help you. Granted the whistl's quick use in this does help get the right Pikmin out first, but I'm pretty sure people could manage with a slower whistle and added armor.
-I feel like his recovery is ehhh.. that is until the opponent so much as farts at you off stage, then you're kinda screwed. Or if the Pikmin decide to not go up with you and decide to test out what it feels like to go into the bottom blast zone, that happened to me a few times when I tried to recover and only one Pikmin decided to help me live, the others just continued to fall.
- (This could just be venting so lemme know if DAir really is this bad) DAir sucks. No seriously it does. 50% of the time its a meteor, its slower than CFalc's and Ganny's, and it has more endlag than them, which means its useless offstage to kill and onstage to pressure or set up for his amazing Vertical combo game.
Also I think you guys are disregarding DSmash as an edgeguard. It has a more Horizontal KB than FTilt's (although FTilt is also good).


...Also, HAI DREW =D

 

[B.W.]

I gotta be that guy.

Stop being bad guys it'll solve your problems

More in depth Olimar info to come so you guys can see why Olimar is real.

So I'm just gonna tackle this post as a quick example. No offense to you KForce, it was just the best post to go on.

-That armor was a staple of Brawl Olimar and could've helped him play more aggressively, not to mention live longer offstage without your Pikmin deciding to not help you. Granted the whistl's quick use in this does help get the right Pikmin out first, but I'm pretty sure people could manage with a slower whistle and added armor.

Armored whistle probably couldn't really be used to help Olimar play aggressive in this game unless it continued being as fast as it is as well, which honestly would spell being broken. A slower whistle would make it harder to get your Pikmin in order as well as make his recovery worse which people already complain about for some reason, unless they also made it stall, but then his recovery would probably be too good, honestly.

-I feel like his recovery is ehhh.. that is until the opponent so much as farts at you off stage, then you're kinda screwed. Or if the Pikmin decide to not go up with you and decide to test out what it feels like to go into the bottom blast zone, that happened to me a few times when I tried to recover and only one Pikmin decided to help me live, the others just continued to fall.

When you're recovering you have to whistle. It's fast enough that it doesn't hurt your recovery at all. Hell sometimes I whistle two or three times just to make sure my Pikmin are with me. After that, a lot of people talk about how Pikmin decide to not grab the ledge.
Protip: Aim it as if you're trying to make them grab it with their hands. It works.
Protip 2: Don't be too close to the stage. This isn't even Olimar specific, it goes for all tethers. So don't do it.
After you do that, his recovery is pretty great. He zips up at Ivysaur speeds and even better, his tether actually can hit people off the ledge. So stalling it as long as possible can be beneficial because people will lose their invincibility frames and you can hit them off. Even better is that if they try to roll on stage to edgehog you, you're still alive. And better still, Olimar's ledge jump is fantastic, and safer than most other tether characters ledge jumps so he doesn't get screwed as hard as other characters.

He's also fairly hard to gimp. Like seriously, I've been shine spiked and still managed to Up-B back tot he stage, he's recovery is so good.

- (This could just be venting so lemme know if DAir really is this bad) DAir sucks. No seriously it does. 50% of the time its a meteor, its slower than CFalc's and Ganny's, and it has more endlag than them, which means its useless offstage to kill and onstage to pressure or set up for his amazing Vertical combo game.

Isn't it always a meteor? Except maybe Purple? But it's a damn good one regardless. It's a little slow to come out, but it's really not slow unless you hit the ground with it, but really, why are you using it on stage? Seriously, that's what N-Air is for.

Anyway, off stage D-Air is fantastic, you just have to time and space things right and just go deep cause yes, Olimar can go deep and survive because (see recovery explanation)

The real perk to D-Air though is that it's meteor(/spike if he really does have one), that doesn't have a sweetspot. You have to time it sure, but when the meteor hitbox comes out it's all over the Pikmin. I know, that's doesn't sound impressive but you also have to look at the fact that it's a disjointed hitbox so it beats out a lot of things that try to challenge it. Also, combined with Olimar's floatiness, you can often times do it twice off stage and recover or fast fall off stage and recover.

Also I think you guys are disregarding DSmash as an edgeguard. It has a more Horizontal KB than FTilt's (although FTilt is also good).

I think a few people know that D-Smash is a good edgeguard, and it's also just a strong kill move in general.

F-Tilt has a few things worth noting that make it good to use over. First off, it comes out faster. A lot faster. It took me a while to actually realize this honestly, but whenever Olimar doesn't have space to use D-Smash, F-tilt is your go to move because it also covers a lot of Olimar's body.

The other reason to use F-Tilt is because its hitbox lasts longer than D-Smash. I don't know how much longer, but it does in fact stay out longer than D-Smash or really just longer than most of Olimar's moves in general.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

It do got dat sour hit doe
Learn that ish the hard way the other day lol
I've also somewhat change my opinion on Olimar after playing him for a while longer but I still run into the good amount of problems I had before with him.

 

[B.W.]

What has the sour hit? D-Air?

If that's what you're talking about then yes, but so what? Most disjointed spikes/meteors do.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

What has the sour hit? D-Air?

If that's what you're talking about then yes, but so what? Most disjointed spikes/meteors do.

Yea, but I went deep last night on...someone, I went for the dair and they, THEY OUT SMARTED ME MAN. Long story short, sour hit into death. -2/10 would not do again.

 

[B.W.]

You fast fell didn't you?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

nooop
I did what I normally do, get down, spread my arms out and just glide, wait a second, then jump up as I drop bombs on'em. He was being real resistant about dying though, and waited it off and I ended up hitting with a sour dair and dying before him.

 

[WINK ;)]

Now that I know Olimar can pluck in mid air to help recovery he is not as bad as I thought... The recovery is what got me. The character is too under explored.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Move that send people up are the secret.

 

[Soniv]

Now that I know Olimar can pluck in mid air to help recovery he is not as bad as I thought... The recovery is what got me. The character is too under explored.

It's also really great to mess with people if you end up above them and they're trying to juggle. It bounces you just enough and a lot of times you can get some punishment in.

 

[leekslap]

yeah to be honest it might be a programming error that hasnt been fixed yet. hopefully theyll do something about it

NiPPs! Get Shady to do more smash!

 

[NiPPs]

NiPPs! Get Shady to do more smash!

lmao love how you found me here xD. Hes very busy but wants to and we got a few other things up our sleeves for you guys .

on topic: olimar needs to be played more as hes really not that bad but theres no current like "play style" for him now only two people that play him are boss (i think) and h box but they dont main him. Olimar has a lot of combos and a lot of unknown potential imo

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

lmao love how you found me here xD. Hes very busy but wants to and we got a few other things up our sleeves for you guys .

on topic: olimar needs to be played more as hes really not that bad but theres no current like "play style" for him now only two people that play him are boss (i think) and h box but they dont main him. Olimar has a lot of combos and a lot of unknown potential imo

frauds
ss is the only real olimar
he just beat strong bad the other day

 

[B.W.]

There's also Brood who's beaten aMSa.

SS is probably the best at Olimar in PM right now though.

 

[guyincognito]

SS has the best pivot grabs I've seen from any Olimar player.

 

[steelguttey]

yea ss is the best olimar and brood is a close second just cause hes a godly brawl olimar and that transitions p well

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

yea ss is the best olimar and brood is a close second just cause hes a godly brawl olimar and that transitions p well

it doesnt
i saw one of the top(?) brawl olimars try pm olimar at xanadu and he got steamed rolled
completely different environment

 

[steelguttey]

it doesnt
i saw one of the top(?) brawl olimars try pm olimar at xanadu and he got steamed rolled
completely different environment

if you learn like 3 techskill things and learn matcups yea it does

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Nah nope but thx

 

[WINK ;)]

lmao love how you found me here xD. Hes very busy but wants to and we got a few other things up our sleeves for you guys .

on topic: olimar needs to be played more as hes really not that bad but theres no current like "play style" for him now only two people that play him are boss (i think) and h box but they dont main him. Olimar has a lot of combos and a lot of unknown potential imo

Alright, I will be that guy. I will take Olimar's meta to the next level. <3