Is Kirby vs. Wario a losing battle?

Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
52
#1
Literally just lost to one in bracket and I've never beaten a legit Wario before. I get caught by his side-b shoulder rush, dair to up air follow up, and I get killed of the the top of the waft hit box a lot. And yes, I know I can inhale side-b, I know I can shield it and punish with a washdash oos to grab, I use all of the options people tell me about dealing with it and yet it just takes a Wario that spams it to hit me once and kill me. It's probably just salt but I feel like I lose to a move instead of a character.
 
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Certix_

Smash Rookie
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Jul 27, 2015
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#2
Don't jump, stay on ground and bait it out. Shield and wd oos punish. I personally don't like this matchup either,but I've never faced a really good Wario. Watching the opponent helps find out their habits before they use it. When they tech chase you, remember that the further out it goes the more dmg and knock back so sometimes it's better to take the hit than try to roll away. Speaking of, Rolling away from it is a terrible idea. Other than that, good luck.
 

Mc.Rad

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#3
Don't jump, stay on ground and bait it out. Shield and wd oos punish. I personally don't like this matchup either,but I've never faced a really good Wario. Watching the opponent helps find out their habits before they use it. When they tech chase you, remember that the further out it goes the more dmg and knock back so sometimes it's better to take the hit than try to roll away. Speaking of, Rolling away from it is a terrible idea. Other than that, good luck.
Also watch out for dsmash....

And that's coming from a Wario main.
((Although this is also giving me good advice, better checkout other matchup threads with Wario))
 
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Muplex

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Jan 15, 2015
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#4
Your Fair should always beat out his sideB since its slightly disjointed. You can essentially protect yourself against random sideB's by shffling Fairs. It's important to be aggressive in this MU because if u give him space, he can run away with it thanks to his much superior aerial mobility. Practice pressuring safely (landing and L-cancelling your shffl'd Fairs right after the 3rd hit connects)
 
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Ark5712

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Mar 25, 2014
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#7
Inhale beats a lot of his options, and gives you access to brawl bite. The hitbox on it is enormous, and will beat out his bite, in addition to being able to rack up significant damage. Staying on the ground is usually optimal, and punishing his approaches OOS. Many Warios will try to approach from above and dair your shield, then continue pressure after the bounce with uair or nair. If you can predict the dair you can get out of the way and punish the landing, and if you don't predict it or don't space properly, you can usual punish it with a nair oos before his followup options come out.

Just play safe and try to wall him out. I believe his tech roll can be reacted to fairly well, so d-throw chaingrabs are also a solid option.
 

ConeZ

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#8
Inhale beats a lot of his options, and gives you access to brawl bite. The hitbox on it is enormous, and will beat out his bite, in addition to being able to rack up significant damage. Staying on the ground is usually optimal, and punishing his approaches OOS. Many Warios will try to approach from above and dair your shield, then continue pressure after the bounce with uair or nair. If you can predict the dair you can get out of the way and punish the landing, and if you don't predict it or don't space properly, you can usual punish it with a nair oos before his followup options come out.

Just play safe and try to wall him out. I believe his tech roll can be reacted to fairly well, so d-throw chaingrabs are also a solid option.
Listen to this man. xD

Seriously though, all of the stuff from the OP that Wario does is really punishable, but most people still suffer against it because Wario gets a lot of mileage (moreso than many other characters) from his opponent lacking MU knowledge. This is very beneficial to him in low level play, but once your opponent figures out his gimmicks, he becomes much harder to play. Just take a little bit of time to learn what Wario does, and practice the punishes that Ark has suggested.
 

Ark5712

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#9
Yeah, I've found that once you learn the matchup, it's very manageable. I've heard lots of complaints about the matchup from both sides at all different levels of play, some Wario mains hate it, some love it, some Kirby mains hate it, some love it. I'm personally really comfortable with it now that I've learned it, but I remember getting a little salty the first time I played a good Wario.
 

JipC

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#10
Actually talked to Coney about this. Him being one of the best Warios at the time vs Chu who was one of the best Kirbys at the time too
I'll see if I can find the posts about it but he said it was fairly tilted in Wario's favor
 

ConeZ

Smash Apprentice
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#11
Actually talked to Coney about this. Him being one of the best Warios at the time vs Chu who was one of the best Kirbys at the time too
I'll see if I can find the posts about it but he said it was fairly tilted in Wario's favor
Well, you gotta realize that while their opinions do matter, both Kirby and Wario have both had some fairly relevant changes to the matchup since the time you would be referring to, presumably back to 3.02(?)
 

Phan7om

ドリームランドの悪夢
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#12
Just a hint

If a character does not have at least 2 or these 4 traits: Fast ground mobility, Great kill power, Great projectiles, Large Disjoint. They are likely not a "losing matchup" for Kirby; likely meaning even some characters with 2 of those traits aren't losing matchups (aka Link).
 
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Mc.Rad

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#13
Just a hint

If a character does not have at least 2 or these 4 traits: Fast ground mobility, Great kill power, Great projectiles, Large Disjoint. They are likely not a "losing matchup" for Kirby; likely meaning even some characters with 2 of those traits aren't losing matchups (aka Link).
To bad Wario only has one of those traits
 

Phan7om

ドリームランドの悪夢
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#15
Came to a realization that I worded my previous comment wrong. By "losing matchup" I meant "bad matchup"
 
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#16
Hmm, never faced a wario. Did play him though, you should refrain direct approach since he is godly at punishing that. Try to space aerials and don't get chomped/grabbed. I actually don't know if kirby gets any benefits from the chomp ability but i'll suppose it's like wario's. Use it to your advantage and if you see a side b either retreat, powershield if you're gutsy or f-air to counter like said above. Kirby is a very light character so you better keep an exact distance away from him or he will waft fearless. D-air into U-air is unpractical for wario since he would generally save up that combo for a waft instead of an u-air but be wary cause it does exist and both the dair into uair and dair into waft are good mixups. In this case you should:

A) Tech (can you you tech grounded meteors?)

Or

B)DI

But that still leaves the question unanswered. But personally I think kirbs loses.

Well that's just the opinion from a past wario main.
 
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