is K.Rool's gut check even worth using?

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#1
i ask because i can only recall one time where his counter came in handly the rest of the time my opponent's too quick for me to counter the attack in time

it's just there for me to wonder...am i ever gonna need this?
 

Marmotbro

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#2
Its as useful as any other counter really, except it also reflects projectiles, making it hilariously good against the likes of a spammy Mewtwo or Lucario. Just remember it only covers his belly.
 

GAINAX

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#3
It also reflects projectiles with a huge multiplayer. I killed Samus at 50% reflecting a full charge shot. Also, it only counters from the front, so you have to time/place it well,
 
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#4
As everyone else is saying, I've had great success using it against projectiles because no one sees it coming. That said, in many ways it is worse than other counters due to only activating from the front, all in all, at the end of the day: it's a counter. Not much more to it than that.
 

Luigifan18

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#5
Unless your opponent's attack is super-slow, trying to use a counter as a reaction is not gonna work out well. Try learning how to read.
 

Royta

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#6
On reaction it isn't too useful, but is a great tool against overly agressive players for one and works wonders against certain recovery moves like Ike and Chrom's Aether. I mained Roy in Melee and Ike in Brawl, and like those counters, you have to use it sparingly. It is best when the foe has forgotten you even have it and immediately falls for it, but once they fall for it, try not using it again the whole match. They'll play around it, which you can use to your advantage. Fact that you HAVE the move, is already a mental advantage.
 

maybe.

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#7
Good against projectiles or if you can get it to land early you can kinda mind game your opponent into playing around it even though you aren't planning on using it anyways.
 

Kincaid1

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#8
I've had luck with the kounter by using it immediately upon jumping up onto the ledge. There's also been a couple times where I've run off and used it on someone's recovery and they get ****ed.
 
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#9
most counter moves just exist to exist...only gonna work against crappy players since You'll usually be fighting characters quicker than you and that means you gotta be quick on the draw to hitting that counter at the right time
 

Royta

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#11
most counter moves just exist to exist...only gonna work against crappy players since You'll usually be fighting characters quicker than you and that means you gotta be quick on the draw to hitting that counter at the right time
Ken infamously spammed Counter against PC-Chris in a Grand Finals in Melee, if used right every tool is amazing.
 

Coyle

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#13
That said, in many ways it is worse than other counters due to only activating from the front...

Also, it only counters from the front, so you have to time/place it well...

If you tap back when you do the counter he’ll turn around. I came across this tip when looking through the KRool character tips they have in the game. This makes it easier to throw it out when you run past an opponent.
 
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#14
If you tap back when you do the counter he’ll turn around. I came across this tip when looking through the KRool character tips they have in the game. This makes it easier to throw it out when you run past an opponent.
Sadly, I believe this only works after the counter has already been triggered, as there is a unique interaction with that. The way it works is that the target will incur heavy hit lag as usual (or their projectile will be reflected if that's what you're countering) but if you're holding the opposite direction, K. Rool will turn around afterward and the shockwave will be directed in his new facing direction.
 

Coyle

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#15
Yeah, that's true. The rest of his body is intangible during the same frames his belly can counter, but only his gut will trigger the counter. You can still counter moves that come behind you, but they would need to pass through his back and reach his tum-tum. He'll then turn to counter the move. Mostly I think this just helps with projectiles.

I did however notice something useful to force an edge-guarding scenario: When you're facing an opponent and they hit your counter, they'll be sent flying behind you if you tap backwards before or during hitlag frames. This can be used when baiting at the edge.
 
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#17
You're still thinking about it as a reaction. Counters should not be used as reactions, as they are not fast enough to out frame most attacks, they should be used when you read what your opponent will do. You are not reacting to what they've done, you are punishing them for what they are going to do. Though, if your opponent reads that you will counter you may get punished for using counter. Its mindgames yo.
 
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#18
most of the time you can't do that successfully though and it only comes up when the opponent is reckless enough that you can get expect them to do what you want them to do
 

Reila

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#19
Just the existence of the counter in one fighter's kit might completely change the way the opponent fights. That is the truth for me, anyways. I am a very aggressive, in your face player, and I need to be cautious about counters if the fighter I am against has it in their arsenal.

It is not the most useful move, just like VIllager and Isabelle's Pocket, but it has its uses.
 

Call_Me_Red

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#20
Counter can result in 2 different play styles from your opponent, depending how you use it.

-If you only use the counter VERY sparingly, the opponent won't expect it, and it can be used to punish the enemy going for a kill move to score one of your own.
-If you use it very often, the opponent will be hesitant to send out any strong moves. Be aggressive to take advantage of their hesitance, but don't fall for any counter baits.

Of course people won't always react the same way, and there's some in between area here, but counter is an awesome move. It can easily change how an opponent plays against you.
 
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Amity

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#22
I have been having really good luck using it against sword characters Up b when they try to recover. I’ve had some very early gimps using it that way
 
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#23
I have been having really good luck using it against sword characters Up b when they try to recover. I’ve had some very early gimps using it that way
:ultike: especially since you can counter both Aether and Quick Draw if you position yourself right. This can also condition high recoveries with Quick Draw, allowing K. Rool to chase him down and punish.
 

Amity

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#24
:ultike: especially since you can counter both Aether and Quick Draw if you position yourself right. This can also condition high recoveries with Quick Draw, allowing K. Rool to chase him down and punish.
I can agree with this and I have lived this situation ahaha. I feel like gut check is severely under used and has much potential to be a good tool in is kit. Unfortunately me me tho, I sometimes try to fish for it too much ahaha. Idk, I plan on trying to implement in more without being extra obvious -.-
 

G-Guy

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#25
It‘s an all Right move to have, in my opinion. As many pointed out already, just the existence of it forces mindgames.

The counter can Act as a really nice Combo-Breaker, though. Just yesterday i turned the Tables Against a Falcon who wanted to finish his Nair string with a Knee...Oh Boy didn‘t that Turn out well for him
 

S_B

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#28
eh maybe i should think of it more as a mind-game tool from now on
That's how it was meant to be used, yeah.

It's a good move, probably one of the best in his kit, really. Because it both reflects projectiles AND deals counter damage, you can hit enemies with both the projectile AND the counter damage. There's a video floating around of KKR gut checking Mewtwo's shadowball point blank and it kills Mewtwo from 0%.

Earlier today I used it to counter a Falcon knee and it KOed the Falcon. Also used it to send Richter's axe back at him and managed to hit him with it.

Use it enough and you can condition your enemies to try to grab instead at which point you can punish that accordingly as well.
 
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S_B

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#29
Wanted to bump this and say that gut check is even better now. Those 5 frames less downtime really make a difference.
 

Gamer Cube

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#30
When I use counters, I usually forget about them and play normally. The only times I use it is when I know they're fishing for a smash and I'll basically run into their smash with a counter. Counters can also be used for reads. When I land, sometimes I will immediately counter, but only about once per match. If you can hit it, they usually are going for a heavy hit, and will get it reflected back with a huge multiplier. But it does have a large punish, so it's only good for a mixup, but I can catch most people that try to juggle after a good launch.
 
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