Is K rool more than just a noob crusher?

T-Donor66

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#1
Hey guys, I have really taken a liking to K rool. I voted for him on the ballot and since I an vest at heavies, he feels great.

However, as of the last week, I have heard multiple pros say that he isn’t work considering for tournament play. So much so that leffen considers him the worst character in the game. They said that he simply does good online woth lag, and that his “gimmicks” would never work in a competitive environment.

The saddest part is that I’ve looked for K rool competitive sets, and most of them struggle to escape pools.

I’m a competitive player, so I really do not want to invest my time into a character that would not be viable for winning tournaments. That being said, I simply do not get why these pros are saying he is so bad. What do you guys think?
 

Luigifan18

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#3
it just boggles the mind that the slow lumbering meat-man ganondorf is seen as more viable on the tournament scene than K.Rool who has actual tools and isn't just reliant upon the luck of the draw and being patient as hell
Not to mention his opponent screwing up somehow...
 

Sudz

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#5
His massive hurt box makes him easy to bop around endlessly.

Also, his projectiles are borderline useless against people that know how to get around them and have pretty bad frame data to boot which results in some characters being able to outright punish him for throwing out the crown.

He has very little ability to combo on his own as a result of him having poor options for combo starters and he's also just slow as hell.

I'm sure with time there will be people that figure out tricks with him, but the tournament results aren't lying rn.

Ganon is significantly better than K Rool on account of his ability to start combos and edgeguard, as well as the fact that he can actually approach which K Rool struggles to do.

Sorry OP, but he's just not that great rn against competent players. His "options" are an illusion and he is held back by glaring flaws that come together to make him one of the worst characters in the game imo. Hopefully he receives buffs at some point in the future, but I am hard pressed to know where exactly they would be.
 

T-Donor66

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#6
His massive hurt box makes him easy to bop around endlessly.

Also, his projectiles are borderline useless against people that know how to get around them and have pretty bad frame data to boot which results in some characters being able to outright punish him for throwing out the crown.

He has very little ability to combo on his own as a result of him having poor options for combo starters and he's also just slow as hell.

I'm sure with time there will be people that figure out tricks with him, but the tournament results aren't lying rn.

Ganon is significantly better than K Rool on account of his ability to start combos and edgeguard, as well as the fact that he can actually approach which K Rool struggles to do.

Sorry OP, but he's just not that great rn against competent players. His "options" are an illusion and he is held back by glaring flaws that come together to make him one of the worst characters in the game imo. Hopefully he receives buffs at some point in the future, but I am hard pressed to know where exactly they would be.
Thats fine I guess. I play Ganon and have done friendlies with some high level plyers, and he is definitely viable against players who know what they are doing, and I don’t feel that with K rool. Oh well.

Im still open to anyone else’s opinions as well.
 
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chippy2000

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#7
King K. Rool definitely has potential, anyone who says he sucks haven't played a good one. Mid tier at worst, and that's really good given it's a roster of 70+ characters. He just necessitates a secondary which should be a Fighting Game Standard, period.
 
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#8
Low tier in the current meta? Probably yes, but we can’t be sure on the evolution of the meta. Slow characters have always been bad, if you play krool it’s because it is fun to play not because you want to win tournaments. I am a melee player myself, I’m playing ulti until it’s fun to play, and krool despite being the big combo food without approaches is still fun to me and it *feels* like I can do more when I am destroyed by stronger players. Just play what’s fun for you to play...
 
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#10
In today's day and age, the meta *heavily* favors rushdown playstyles and characters that can push advantages as hard as possible, K Rool is the opposite of that, He does not want to approach or for other to approach him, and that's an issue.

He was pretty strong earlier in the game's life when people were still learning stuff, but now that everyone has a feel of what K Rool does, its very clear how to exploit him and he's just not scary anymore.

He DOES have some really good matchups that favor him, and having him in your pocket may prove useful...wouldn't main him tho unless you're a die-hard fan and really love him form your childhood or something.
 
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#12
I think too many people are concern with what "pros" think about x character. Most of us are not pros or even at the highest level, which is what the tier list is mainly for. Unless you play at their level, there is no reason to concern yourself with what they say. A lot of time pros end up being wrong anyways on x character especially in the earlier metas. It's up to us to see if x character is actually good or not. Most pros aren't very good theory crafters so they often dismiss characters until someone comes along and prove them wrong.
 

S_B

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#13
KKR is like Brawl Bowser: he scarcely has any moves that aren't punishable due to endlag being so high on nearly everything he does.

Also, his projectiles just aren't that threatening in the grand scheme of things, meaning he can't force an approach.

His toolkit is kind of a generalist setup: he DOES have tools, and some decent ones at that, but none of them seem to balance out his weaknesses just yet. He's also very high risk, high reward, and we've yet to see a specialist emerge that can make him work like some of those insane D3 or Luigi mains we'd see in SSB4.

Doesn't mean we won't, though.

I feel like a few endlag tweaks might help him here and there. We learned from Brawl Bowser that super strong moves should be punishable, but not THAT punishable.
 
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#17
nothing about validation and more so that he's laughably easy to exploit to the point where facing good players is extra annoying as K.Rool
I wasn't just referring to this character in particular and you know it. Doesn't even have to be bashing, sometimes just things being somewhat quiet around your characters is enough to make you upset.
 
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#18
Honestly when you only have yourself to learn from and the majority of K.Rool footage you find is just derp mode material you honestly get the feeling that you are fighting a war you cannot win
 

G-Guy

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#19
Honestly when you only have yourself to learn from and the majority of K.Rool footage you find is just derp mode material you honestly get the feeling that you are fighting a war you cannot win

All of us fought a similar war, just to finally get to play as our King, not too long ago.

Us Kutthroats are a persitent bunch, arn't we?
 

S_B

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#20
I mean, everyone thought D3 was bottom tier trash in Smash 4, yet we had a few breakout D3 mains that could do things like defeat MKLeo.

SSBU is going to have a LONG lifespan, I'm sure, and I'm guessing the king will have his day.
 
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#21
All of us fought a similar war, just to finally get to play as our King, not too long ago.

Us Kutthroats are a persitent bunch, arn't we?
it just seems like we gotta try a lot harder than bowser or ganondorf(say what you will about his frustrating match up's all he needs is a few hits and the opponent's in panic mode)
 

+PLUS+

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#22
While he may not be a high tier character, I believe he can be played competently at a very high level. As a K Rool player in elite smash, I feel confident playing against just about every character except R.O.B. (Extended dair hitbox), Villager/Isabelle (the pocket), Wolf (reflect), Pichu (combos), and Puff (smh). But, I decimate sword characters considered top tier and projectile heavy characters can say hello to my belly. Most of the matches I play have minimal lag (I live in CA) so I’m not getting many free wins due to ****ty connections. I think most of the world just hasn’t seen what the King is capable of yet. Also, I’ve been playing as K. Rool since release, and watching my replays from last week vs watching my replays from around December is mind blowing. I thought I was good then, but I would own my past self now. In conclusion, there are mad gimmicks I’m guessing most of the pros haven’t seen because they abandoned the character early and rarely face him, but I predict someone will do well with him at some tournament in the near future. I wish I had time to go try to win some tourneys myself but meh... that’s another story
 

Klimax

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#23
I played him a lot, in arena, elite smash and a lot in training, I think I can now talk a bit about him.

Of course, he's not a top tier and yes, he's actually a good noob crusher. But I don't that he's low tier at all. In my opinion, he's just below your average mid tier character. The up air is really good and little jump that he does when doing is fast and can easily catch people. His up and side tilts are really good and people don't use these two moves enough. The up tilt is fast and is a really good anti-air option. The side tilt has super armor, is fast and hits hard. His nair is also a good move.

Also, people rely too much on side b and neutral b. When I shoot my cannonball I don't expect it to touch my opponent, I just want to distract him, force a shield and try to touch him with something else. Same goes for the crown, I don't really care if it doesn't hit, I'm more interested by the fact that it's annoying for my opponent and can force a short hop or a shield. Also, the return of the crown can stop a combo from my opponent.

His biggest weakness is probably his lack of out of shield options, you just have the nair and that's pretty much. Or you can spot dodge and land a tilt but that's harder.

So here's what I think: He's a mid tier, is underrated at this moment, is really a noob crusher, people don't use up and side tilts enough, up air is also underrated. Fighting Samus is a nightmare.
 
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+PLUS+

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#24
I played him a lot, in arena, elite smash and a lot in training, I think I can now talk a bit about him.

Of course, he's not a top tier and yes, he's actually a good noob crusher. But I don't that he's low tier at all. In my opinion, he's just below your average mid tier character. The up air is really good and little jump that he does when doing is fast and can easily catch people. His up and side tilts are really good and people don't use these two moves enough. The up tilt is fast and is a really good anti-air option. The side tilt has super armor, is fast and hits hard. His nair is also a good move.

Also, people rely too much on side b and neutral b. When I shoot my cannonball I don't expect it to touch my opponent, I just want to distract him, force a shield and try to touch him with something else. Same goes for the crown, I don't really care if it doesn't hit, I'm more interested by the fact that it's annoying for my opponent and can force a short hop or a shield. Also, the return of the crown can stop a combo from my opponent.

His biggest weakness is probably his lack of out of shield options, you just have the nair and that's pretty much. Or you can spot dodge and land a tilt but that's harder.

So here's what I think: He's a mid tier, is underrated at this moment, is really a noob crusher, people don't use up and side tilts enough, up air is also underrated. Fighting Samus is a nightmare.
Samus is only a nightmare until you start reflecting the charge shot. Also, as long as you’re not on final destination, bait Samus out by jumping around on the platforms. She has the greatest success with her missiles and charge shot when you stay low and play horizontally. I completely agree with you about side and up-tilt. Side tilt is my main kill option. Dash into up-tilt is an incredible tool for stopping opponents coming in from above. Up air is underutilized and incredibly powerful. Right on
 

HenryXLII

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#25
I do not think K.Roll is as bad as people say, but the character has some really big flaws that need work arounds I find that K.Rool has a pretty solid neutral and good ground game overall. It's the air where he really suffers. Once K.Rool is in disadvantage all he can really do is spam Nair which is predictable and pretty safe to punish.

His recovery was very overrated before the nerf, and is even worse now. It is incredibly slow and linear and the worst part is K.Rool cannot air dodge out of it. Lastly K.Rool really suffers at the ledge, I find getting on stage to be a nightmare against aggressive players due to a lack of movement options, a big body, and weak aerials.

I don't think K.Rool is a dumpster fire though. His kill options are solid, and while his projectiles are very linear at a basic level, they have a ton of potential for mixups, and hit hard. My favorite trick involves shooting out the canon ball, approaching, then jumping into the blunderbuss suck before the ball despawns. Most people shield when they see K.Rool in the air due to his bad aerials, and get sucked up as a result.

Another dirty trick that will most likely only work a few times is on Battlefield/Kalos. You use stand on the platform sucking with your blunderbuss when they are on ledge, and fall through the platform when they use a getup option, maintaining the suck the entire time. This really throws people off guard, and the only way past it is to ether wait (easier now sadly) or to roll if K.Rool is not positioned right.

I think K.Rool is having a slow meta push because of the stigma surrounding him. People are really disrespecting K.Rool as a brain-dead character, when in reality a good K.Rool will require much more thinking and work than most other characters. Whenever I play him I tend to receive much more T-Bagging and disconnects than usual, even if I am putting in the work.

To all discouraged K.Rool players out there, keep at it, your playing one of the hypest characters, funnest characters in the game. This may sound tacky but I legit believe in your potential. It took me ALL of Smash 4 to feel confident as a Robin player, and now I feel like I can take on just about anyone. Keep playing the character you love and the results will come.
 
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#26
As someone who's in Elite Smash with :ultkrool: among other characters, I believe he's really good. I don't think he'll be topping any tier lists, but he's certainly fun to use. He may have been made to be a noob crusher in mind (which he really is a noob crusher), but he was also made to do things heavyweights normally don't do. Hence why he was given a counter, a reflector, and a long-distance recovery.

Because of this though, he's different from the other super heavyweights. You can't just rush in and use your weight to tank the damage. You need to play smart with him, trick the opponent, dare I say be "cruel" with your moves. Yes, his belly armor helps him win exchanges, but it shouldn't be relied on too much since it can break and continued use of his armored moves can slow the recovery process. Of all the heavyweights, he's the one you need to change up your approach most with. Crownerang and Blunderbuss deal decent damage, but what you should really use them for is baiting reactions and punishing accordingly. Both of these can encourage jumping and shielding, which you can easily counter. These can also encourage reflectors if the opponent has one and... so what? You have a reflector too. Dashing into up tilt is a good anti-air option, and forward tilt deals good damage and can tank a weak attack. I also find myself mixing up my moves with down tilt, as it comes unexpectedly unlike down throw so buried opponents have less time to react when I throw a forward or down smash. Up throw deals a whopping 20% damage, so I sometimes use that early on to get a lead or close the damage gap. If they don't react quick enough, I can get an up aerial as well... or read their dodge and punish.

K. Rool's weakest point is his terrible disadvantage state. Once he's being juggled in the air, his only option is to spam neutral aerial to armor through attacks, which is predictable and punishable. Propellerpack is a good recovery for a heavyweight, but once he's on the ledge it can be difficult to get back on against an aggressive opponent. Sometimes you can shark through the ground with the propellers, but after awhile they'll catch onto that and simply stay farther away. And considering he can't cancel or act out of Propellerpack, he's pretty much forced to recover low, which can be predictable to opponents capable of edgeguarding. If they land a back aerial you're one tech away from losing the stock, and some characters can even meteor smash K. Rool through the propellers. Like other heavyweights, he's also a pretty big target, which combined with his heavy weight, makes it difficult for him to escape combos, especially against quicker opponents. Because of all of this, your main game plan with K. Rool is gonna be to overpower them in the neutral and outlast them.

Like :ultkingdedede:, I've found that it's best to just have fun with K. Rool. That's not to say he can't be played seriously, but considering all the wacky options he has and all of his hilarious animations... why not have some fun along the way? That's what I've been doing since release, and though I am in Elite Smash I don't really care. Having fun is what's most important.
 
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#27
it just seems like we gotta try a lot harder than bowser or ganondorf(say what you will about his frustrating match up's all he needs is a few hits and the opponent's in panic mode)
You seem to carry the assumption that those characters don't have problems as well. I can't speak for Bowser, but as a person who does use Ganon quite a lot, there are certain match-ups that are camp-heavy that make me never wish I picked Ganon on the character select. Ganon almost has no answer whatsoever to projectile spam if the projectiles are spammed intelligently (yes, it is a thing). You also say it's easy to do well as Ganon, but it's only easy against pretty new players to be honest. Most characters have a gimmick that trumps new players when you think about it.

In such situations, I would have preferred I picked K. Rool rather than Ganon any day of the week. Ganon's strengths lie in the fact that people need to approach him and he can defend himself with very hard-hitting and fast aerials and devastating punishes. Meanwhile, K. Rool's strengths are walling out characters who don't have many kill options and having unorthodox moves for a heavy-weight that make people fight in a very awkward way if they're not used to it. Even if they are, K. Rool has some pretty solid match-ups out there because some characters have a very hard time adapting or simply can't due to their kit.

K. Rool also has some very nice punish options that work on all players regardless of skill. U-Throw tacks a dirty 20% worth of damage, he has 2 spikes, a really nice D-Smash, a projectile that can beat out almost any other and great Tilts. You can't possibly say that counts for nothing. I do think he can use some buffs here and there, but I'm sure that once the noobs find something else to complain about, he'll get the attention that's needed in time.
 

~?~

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#29
K Rool is a Little Mac with more jumps and a cannon. In otherwords, he's all gimmick and no consistency. I remember the last time I lost to a K Rool...... never.
 

S_B

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#31
I'm hoping the Joker patch will give him some badly needed reductions to endlag on some of his moves.

I enjoy playing as KKR more than any other character, but there's no denying he has problems. It really does come down to having next to no safe options to poke with. Even Bowser has jab and some aerials that are safe on shield when spaced properly.

KKR really doesn't have that. Even his jab is fairly easy to punish on a whiff. Again, he HAS tools, but they just don't add up to a character that can really get anything done due to just how laggy most of his attacks are.
 

USAnyan

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#32
I mean according to professionals and let’s be honest any combo based character main(especially online):not really.

I love krool and all but I kinda feel like his own playstyle combined with his laggy moves kinda just loops back around to haunt him in some way. I know he’s supposed to be super bait and punishy, but He doesn’t really have anything to make you Desperately want to approach him -and it’s not like he can rush you down with his tremendous speed or anything.Anytime I fight a krool I just don’t do anything and basically let him WALK straight into disadvantage-even good krools-people online do the same thing really.

This wouldn’t be a big deal if it weren’t for the fact pretty much EVERYTHING he does is not only pretty slow and unsafe, and honestly kinda stubby tbh. While they may not be the fastest
Moves on earth, the other heavies have at least one aerial they can just throw out-the closest has krool has is nair and that again is super stubby. Fair has good range but the sourspot barely has kill power and the entire move is slow.

Idk he has really good tools. And he’s super fun to play. Spot dodge>dtilt bury>fsmash is my favorite comeback/punish tool in the game for example. As well as the random down smash punish.
 

Klimax

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#37
K Rool isn't a good character, but to be honest, I don't care, still my favorite character of the game. Even if they don't buff him at all during the next 6 years, i'll still continue to play him. I didn't wait 16 years to drop him now :laugh::laugh:
 
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#38
I mean, it's gotten us this far. Even if our character isn't the best heavy, I think we have the most lively community and I think our players are the most driven. That's gotta lead to something eventually...right?
Not too sure about that....I've tried the best i can to make something of K.Rool but much like Corrin Players And Bayonetta players i had to realize that it's quite a challenging task to win with said character

all he needs is some nice buffs and we could be headed in the right direction
 
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Call_Me_Red

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#39
Not too sure about that....I've tried the best i can to make something of K.Rool but much like Corrin Players And Bayonetta players i had to realize that it's quite a challenging task to win with said character

all he needs is some nice buffs and we could be headed in the right direction
The problem with that is he did get some nice buffs. And as a former wanna-be Bayo main, K Rool has so much more going for him. I honestly think if you put the time in K Rool is perfectly viable. He does have a lot of rough match ups, but all in all you should see half decent results. I don't want to say that you're giving up too early, but I think you're giving up too early.

My advice is find a solid secondary, switch when you feel uncomfortable, but push K Rool. He has the tools to make a half-decent character. His biggest issue is that he has so many bad matchups. I will admit if you play a bunch of top tier characters back to back, it definitely feels like K Rool is bad. But seriously, just stick to it. Learn when to switch and you'll have a much better time.
 
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#40
did he really though? the buffs he did get didn't really do enough to address the main problems with the character

i barely saw much of a difference after those buffs honestly
 
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