Is Jigglypuff vs YL Overrated?

[Avro-Arrow]

I feel as though people overexagerate how good YL is against Jigglypuff. I see that HBox is over the YL counterpick, Armada doesn't really use YL anymore (I heard from somewhere), and I just played the MU yesterday. It seems like Jigglypuff can go at a certain distance where she is in relatively decent punish range and my rangs and bombs won't reach her. Puff's edgeguards are also really good.

I'm not saying it's a bad matchup for YL, just not that it's as polarizing as people make it out to be. I also understand that it can be annoying to play against YL if you don't understand him, especially as Puff because the neutral is a different experience from other characters and his punish game is a dair to the face (or uair, dsmash, maybe nair at 130%+).

What are your thoughts on the MU? Explain.

 

[EddyBearr]

Approximately even.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Approximately even.

Thank you. That's exactly how I felt playing it.

 

[Phez_]

I like to think its barely in YLs favor (maybe 55:45) because of his overall speed but that's just the way i see it

 

[Avro-Arrow]

How come you think YL has the slight edge? It's definitely plausible, but nevertheless I'd like to hear why.

 

[Phez_]

The way I see it ;

• He's fast, Jiggs is slow
• His main approach (bomb) leads into a kill move (Dair)
• Jiggs struggles to punish him with more than a bair (rest basically doesn't exist against a campy YL)
• Projectiles *can* be hard to manuver through

* a Jigglypuff experienced in the matchup can space around projectiles and their angles, and also punish with bair *

Then again puff has rest (which rarely appears), edge guards, and amazing aerials along with good air speed and manuverability

(just me..? ok...)

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Well the guy I recently played it with kept choosing FoD (it was friendlies), so that may have something to do with the edgeguards and spacing he got against me. What do you think of the MU on FoD?

 

[Phez_]

FoD is relatively neutral im pretty sure. YL has less room to move around, and there is a high ceiling, meaning his Dairs won't kill as fast. So FoD is probs in Puffs favour against a strategical and campy YL. I generally have a fast aggressive YL (because i main Pikachu + Spacies) so Im not bothered by less space but many YLs will ban it against puff.

When Axe played YLink against Hbox at Apex 2014 they ended up striking to FoD, so I think it's neutral for the 'cooler' YLs.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

I can definitely play either way; it depends on the situation. I enjoy playing aggressive but that's not always the best option. In some matchups you can't really throw a lot of projectiles, like against Fox and Falcon (obviously, it's stage dependent, on DL, there's always a way lol), otherwise you'll get caught and punished hard; likewise, against Jigglypuff, you can't play so aggressive all of the time because Puff punishes aggressive characters really well. That being said, always take your openings when they present themselves, especially as a low tier where you're not usually in the best position to start out with.

 

[EddyBearr]

Stages imo:

#1: Pokemon stadium. Low ceiling, weird transformations, tons of horizontal space to run away with
#2: Yoshi's Story. Easy blast-zones (especially for nair,) nice recovery mix-ups, big enough to camp.
#3: Dream Land 64. Tons of space for camping, Jiggs has a hard time keeping up. Kills take a while but you're far less likely to be hurt by Jiggs
#4: Battlefield. Space for camping, good top platform, poor for recovery, average killing.
#5: Fountain of Dreams: Kinda small, platform heights quite low, hard to kill

I don't know where I'd put Final Destination.

 

[MagicScrumpy]

FD is okay against Puff. On one hand, you don't have your platforms to camp on, so movement is limited, but on the other hand, you have a lot of room to run around and throw stuff. It's very easy to kill Puff off the top on FD, but it's also easy for Puff to kill you off the side with those bairs. It's actually sort of like a more limited DL. I would put it between DL and BF in your list.

 

[gmBottles]

I think that the matchup is overrated, but it definitely has its reasons. Jigglypuff can't do much against a wall of projectiles coming from a small, quick opponent. YLink is much harder to deal with than Link, in my opinion, mostly because of his size and speed. YLink doesn't have much kill power, but against Puff that isn't as much of an issue.