• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Is it worth training in Quick Play ?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nyubi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
17
Location
Germany
Switch FC
SW-2778-3020-7519
Hayo :happysheep:

Sometimes it just really feels like I get worse when I play in Quick Play
because the enemy strategys are sometimes just meh.. just trying to spamm Special Attacks or trying other weird stuff. Against people I know I feel a lot more pressure and not just being scared getting hit by Simons Special B.
Am I just not used to it and that's just how to train or how do you train to get better in smash? :secretkpop:
 
Last edited:

Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
17,614
Location
Waxing Moon Ritual
NNID
Miyamoto Iori
Switch FC
SW-4826-9581-3305
Train to beat those strategies.

It's not a bad strategy if it works.
 

"Bn"

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
31
Location
Isle of Wight. It's in England by the way......
Online in fighting games isn't the same as offline. Projectiles are much better in this game thanks to perfect shielding being absent and this is made even more difficult when you throw latency into the works. Timing a parry is different and borderline guesswork. However, you'll experience a (somewhat) wide variety of play styles that you can practice against.

Train to beat those strategies.

It's not a bad strategy if it works.
Also, this.
 

Switch313

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
7
It may be worth it to notice trends and the like.

I know playing online taught me that my entire (local with friends only, offline from N64 to Wii) play strategies revolved around almost purely Smash Attacks :p Heaven forbid I'd block (shield) more than a few times a session with my buddies.

After starting online play in Ultimate (I skipped smash 4) I've learned to use special attacks more effectively (zoning better, trying to control or influence my opponent, etc), dodge better, dash better, use the shield more often.

Now I know I need to work on edge guarding, grabbing more (smartly), stringing attacks together and teching.

So as far as online play goes, it HAS helped me get better by identifying what I suck at. It has helped me practice using more of the resources available to me. I don't know if it would help as much as say practicing a specific combo or technique in training mode with 0 latency (or close to it) and doing some kind of drill (say a specific chain of attacks at a certain range of damage on my opponent over and over and over and over again for a few hours) but my noob gains have been pretty good for around 200 online matches since I picked up the game.

Also I find it fun, so there's that.
 

TheTrueBrawler

Smash Demon
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
817
Location
Mystery
It has helped me get better with my main, so if you want to improve with your character, try 1v1 quick play.
 

Xquirtle

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
232
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I'd say quick play is a good way to practice macro level strategy but Its not great for anything requiring any sort of finesse. That being said, my experience is that 85-90% of the players are committed spammer turds with incredibly linear play styles. As soon as they start losing neutral, it seems as if any player using a character with a projectile or easy hitbox sweeping side B (Ridley, Falcon, 70% of the cast) will resort to camping that ability. I wouldn't say its bad practice to learn to punish players behaving this way, but it is incredibly annoying and doesn't feel very rewarding. Online kinda rewards obnoxious play styles due to latency removing precise options to punish them.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
I was able to improve from always going 0-2 in locals/regionals to making top 8 only from practicing on For Glory in smash 4. Combine online practice with offline tech skill practice, analyzing videos of professionals playing your character in tournament, and learning what they do, and it can help. And when you lose a game, or even a stock and don’t know why, you can save the replays and analyze those afterward to rectify your mistakes.
 

Datfalsetto

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
10
Location
Salt Lake City UT
I feel like the matches are more fun with items, buuuut do I feel it doesn't really help the skill factor all to much... I think just spamming 1v1 has always been the best way to improve.
 

zipzo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
87
I'd say quick play is a good way to practice macro level strategy but Its not great for anything requiring any sort of finesse. That being said, my experience is that 85-90% of the players are committed spammer turds with incredibly linear play styles. As soon as they start losing neutral, it seems as if any player using a character with a projectile or easy hitbox sweeping side B (Ridley, Falcon, 70% of the cast) will resort to camping that ability. I wouldn't say its bad practice to learn to punish players behaving this way, but it is incredibly annoying and doesn't feel very rewarding. Online kinda rewards obnoxious play styles due to latency removing precise options to punish them.
I was hoping I wasn't the only one feeling this way. I've been in and out of elite smash a few times, and without question, whenever I land in a match outside of elite smash, it's some cheeseball advantaged setup with some turd burglar trying to camp a specific move or strategy.

I get that learning to counter such playstyles can also be important, but at the same time, it completely drains any and all of the fun out of playing and just makes matches annoying.

Got a Bowser who ran 2 stocks 3 minutes on Brinstar. Spammed the belly flop grab thing and would land it on the top platform, and since Brinstar is so close to the top blast zone, he can kill you off the top EXTREMELY low. I get Ganons on stages like Mushroom Kingdom (the scrolling one), who sit near the edge of the screen and attempt to catch you with literally any ability for a free stock. Little Macs on flat stages without a way to fall off...etc...

Sure I can take it in stride and try to learn the playstyles but I will literally never, ever, ever come face to face with these sorts of setups in a tournament. EVER.

It's absolutely painful, downright torturous, and ultimately leads to me just getting annoyed and going to battle arenas, wanting to forget quickplay even exists.

I never thought I'd say that I miss For Glory, but gosh diddly dangit, I freakin' do.
 

Xquirtle

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
232
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I was hoping I wasn't the only one feeling this way. I've been in and out of elite smash a few times, and without question, whenever I land in a match outside of elite smash, it's some cheeseball advantaged setup with some turd burglar trying to camp a specific move or strategy.

I get that learning to counter such playstyles can also be important, but at the same time, it completely drains any and all of the fun out of playing and just makes matches annoying.

Got a Bowser who ran 2 stocks 3 minutes on Brinstar. Spammed the belly flop grab thing and would land it on the top platform, and since Brinstar is so close to the top blast zone, he can kill you off the top EXTREMELY low. I get Ganons on stages like Mushroom Kingdom (the scrolling one), who sit near the edge of the screen and attempt to catch you with literally any ability for a free stock. Little Macs on flat stages without a way to fall off...etc...

Sure I can take it in stride and try to learn the playstyles but I will literally never, ever, ever come face to face with these sorts of setups in a tournament. EVER.

It's absolutely painful, downright torturous, and ultimately leads to me just getting annoyed and going to battle arenas, wanting to forget quickplay even exists.

I never thought I'd say that I miss For Glory, but gosh diddly dangit, I freakin' do.
I'd be fine with going back to For Glory if we could keep the battlefields as well. I've just started to platform camp a majority of the cheese tactics since they tend to be horizontal and it forces the players to actually move, which most players relying on a side B camp are not good at.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
I'd be fine with going back to For Glory if we could keep the battlefields as well. I've just started to platform camp a majority of the cheese tactics since they tend to be horizontal and it forces the players to actually move, which most players relying on a side B camp are not good at.
I platform camp like an absolute champion. It doesn’t stop most of them. Usually they’ll just shield or roll. Or god forbid they have an item projectile, they’ll sometimes try to wait and throw it up in the air when you’re above them. I usually just wait for them to get uncomfortable and get them with aerials when they roll midstage.
 

I Chizl I

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
76
Any online play, assuming the lag isn't awful, will help you improve. That's true whether you fight players who spam or not.

As you get higher GSP you find a more serious group of smash players. Getting into Elite, and especially the upper echelons of Elite, will give you plenty of opportunities to fight genuinely skilled people and learn from it.

I've made significant improvements so far and I know what I have to do going forward to continue that improvement. It becomes apparent when you play enough matches and notice a pattern in your weak areas.
 
Last edited:

FartyParty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
286
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-7316-5581-8026
I have thoroughly gotten better from playing 1v1 quickplay. And definitely set your preferred rules to no items and battlefield or omega stages only. Sometimes you still get stuck in a match with a normal level with hazards and/or with items, but not often.

That combined with a small amount of practice in training and watching some youtube tutorials on my main has improved me greatly.

Granted I have no aspiration or desire to become a top level player and compete in tournaments. I don't even care about unlocking Elite Smash. I just want to win more often than I lose, which I'm starting to do. Had my first 10 match win streak today and brought my GSP on Lucina up from ~50k to ~280k before losing and having it drop back to ~180k.
 
Last edited:

zipzo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
87
Any online play, assuming the lag isn't awful, will help you improve. That's true whether you fight players who spam or not.

As you get higher GSP you find a more serious group of smash players. Getting into Elite, and especially the upper echelons of Elite, will give you plenty of opportunities to fight genuinely skilled people and learn from it.

I've made significant improvements so far and I know what I have to do going forward to continue that improvement. It becomes apparent when you play enough matches and notice a pattern in your weak areas.
I don't deny that, I just think you get that experience just fine in arenas. Just make a glorious arena with 4-6 spots and try to keep your spot...there are excellent players constantly running arenas. This way you aren't concerned with an arbitrary number going up or down.
 
Last edited:

I Chizl I

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
76
I don't deny that, I just think you get that experience just fine in arenas. Just make a glorious arena with 4-6 spots and try to keep your spot...there are excellent players constantly running arenas. This way you aren't concerned with an arbitrary number going up or down.
Yeah you definitely do get great experience in the arena, playing in either mode will help anyone make drastic improvements.

Part of it also has to do with the way each individual person learns best. For me personally, I notice the flaws in my playstyle the most when I feel like something is on the line. Each mistake I make in that context feels worse for me and it makes me try to improve/correct it with more urgency, so competing with GSP is my preferred method of training.

That's just my preference though. Plenty of people don't function like that and prefer a different environment for training, which is very understandable.
 
Last edited:

zipzo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
87
Yeah you definitely do get great experience in the arena, playing in either mode will help anyone make drastic improvements.

Part of it also has to do with the way each individual person learns best. For me personally, I notice the flaws in my playstyle the most when I feel like something is on the line. Each mistake I make in that context feels worse for me and it makes me try to improve/correct it with more urgency, so competing with GSP is my preferred method of training.

That's just my preference though. Plenty of people don't function like that and prefer a different environment for training, which is very understandable.
There is something on the line though! If you lose you have to go to the back of the line lol
 

G-Guy

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
807
NNID
G-Guy1990
I do not like the online, because any kind of latency throws me off terribly.

Latency messes with my motoric learning and I do not want that to happen.
 

zipzo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
87
Haha that's true! I hate waiting for 4 or more people to fight before me!
Also sometimes when I lose to someone, and one of the next people beats the guy I lost to, I can watch their match to see just how this person best someone I had trouble with. Then it's funny when you come up and beat the guy who beat the other guy who beat you. Then you're king of the hill up to the point where you get your rematch with the first guy, and then you win...so satisfying.

Also I've gotten used to the queue, I get a snack, drink some water and keep myself hydrated or do a chore my wife asked of me, or just plain learn from the spectated matches a little bit and unwind from my own match that probably tilted me because I lost :)

Also it's not that bad if you join 3-4 person rooms.

Arenas are just all around a more optimal experience for me I guess.
 
Last edited:

Chrollolith

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
12
The online is a 100% good tool to traing, except 'cause of it's online.
I indeed with all of you guys about the ways, but it's actually hard to find people with stable connection, and when you find it, even if you add them to friends, you need a way to contact with them to go to the arena.

There are some times the lag is minimal, but if hard affects to inputs, try to do a quick reverse aerial rush, for example..
I hope they improve the online mode, may servers or whatever, 'cause it's really annoying sometimes to play like that, and not just that, also you can play at your 100% skill 'cause the game literally dont let you play it.
 

Dunharrow

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
26
The training, especially in Quick play, Is less about practicing against competitively competent opponents. The Mechanical training you do is done during training mode. The training quickplay offers is more so the ability to read your opponents game plan and respond to it effectively.

Everyone has their own play style, its important to identify that style and counter it. Quickplay is a poor way to practice competitively, mostly because of the fluctuating rule sets and lag but its still good to practice reads and responding to set ups.
 

R O F L

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
800
Location
Canada
Most of my game time so far has been playing offline. I've practiced parries offline and can seem to get them somewhat consistently during rounds. But when I'm playing online, the lag prevents me from doing them, whenever I try, I always get a normal shield drop.

I'm probably going to spend most of my game time online, so does this make practicing parries a waste of time?
 

roymustang1990-

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
772
Location
Volcanic plains
NNID
RoyMustang1990
You usually parry against moves u know u can consistently parry. That and the online lag can change the timing of when your suppose to shield drop
 

LightningHelix

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
57
Depending on what you encounter online, it can actually make you worse. You adapt so much to punishing spamming and braindead strategies, that when you finally encounter an actual thinking opponent, the **** hits the fan.
60% of the people you encounter play as if on a freaking flow chart.

Enemy puts pressure? Roll away!
Is he not puting presure? Spamm projectiles!
Trying to Jump over projectiles? Fsmash!

Rinse and repeat.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
Depending on what you encounter online, it can actually make you worse. You adapt so much to punishing spamming and braindead strategies, that when you finally encounter an actual thinking opponent, the **** hits the fan.
60% of the people you encounter play as if on a freaking flow chart.

Enemy puts pressure? Roll away!
Is he not puting presure? Spamm projectiles!
Trying to Jump over projectiles? Fsmash!

Rinse and repeat.
If anything, it makes them good at beating those strategies when they encounter them. I've seen people be able to go toe to toe with good players but then somehow fall apart when a Samus rolls to each end of the stage and spams missiles.
 

Sucumbio

Smash Giant
Moderator
Writing Team
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
8,133
Location
Icerim Mountains
If anything, it makes them good at beating those strategies when they encounter them. I've seen people be able to go toe to toe with good players but then somehow fall apart when a Samus rolls to each end of the stage and spams missiles.
This is definitely the hardest aspect of Quickplay. Training or no there's only so much you can do when each side is guarded by a missile silo that can jump.
 

TK Wolf

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Messages
792
Location
Bellevue, WA
I think a lot of players struggle with finding good players to practice with in person, especially those who can't often attend tourneys. (Work keeps my schedule fairly limited, sadly)

Obviously in-person matches are preferred, and when you can't play in person, you play online. But I'm wondering if factors like input lag fundamentally change the way you play, or hard-wire "wrong" muscle memory, to the point where it can do more harm than good.

How do you view online play? Is it a decent substitute for in person matches? Good for getting a general feel of the meta between your char vs others? Are there really "online combos" that only work because of your opponent's inability to escape with lag? Do some matchups get skewed because things like timing a counter are arguably more difficult?

Side-question: When you play online for practice, do you do quickplay/elite smash, or do you find players and coordinate a room together?
 

Madison Turner

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
46
Location
Richmond, VA
How do you view online play?
Personally, I think online play has helped me a ton. I'm in the same boat as you, where I don't have a lot of in-person practice partners, and can't get out to every tournament or event. However, having the ability to continuously queue up against people that are roughly the same level of player as me has taught me a lot about what I'm doing right, what I'm doing wrong, and a lot of specific match-up data. Thinking back to when I used to play Brawl competitively, when the online was pretty much completely useless due to latency, I had more in-person practice partners and time back then but I still think I would have been better had the online mode worked as well as it does right now.

I just played in a less competitive in-person tournament than most, but I took first place, largely due to the vast amount of online play I've done. It always feels a little weird going from online to in person because I do feel like even the least laggy matches has a slightly different timing on button presses than playing in-person matches, but so far it hasn't taken me too long to adjust after warming up with some friendly matches.

I play Diddy, and all of the combos that I do work both online & offline. I only tend to struggle online if there's noticeable button delay or choppy lag. I mostly play quickplay/elite smash unless playing with friends, because I feel like I'm consistently paired up with people around my level, rather than in arena where even though I'm going into veteran rooms, people seem to be at a lower level, and will often just close the arena after I beat the host. Other than friends, I've never coordinated a room by finding players on here or discord, only just joined random rooms or streams. I did post the idea for doing a Diddy dittos room in the Diddy character forum to learn from each other's play, but got zero takers.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
I think a lot of players struggle with finding good players to practice with in person, especially those who can't often attend tourneys. (Work keeps my schedule fairly limited, sadly)

Obviously in-person matches are preferred, and when you can't play in person, you play online. But I'm wondering if factors like input lag fundamentally change the way you play, or hard-wire "wrong" muscle memory, to the point where it can do more harm than good.

How do you view online play? It's fine if there's minimal lag. Both people with good connections and ethernet adapters make it work excellently.

Is it a decent substitute for in person matches? Again, when there's no lag - yes.

Good for getting a general feel of the meta between your char vs others? Again, when there's no lag - yes.

Are there really "online combos" that only work because of your opponent's inability to escape with lag? Maybe when the lag is crazy. I haven't noticed anything game changing with minimal lag.

Do some matchups get skewed because things like timing a counter are arguably more difficult? Only with heavier lag.

Side-question: When you play online for practice, do you do quickplay/elite smash, or do you find players and coordinate a room together? Both. Elite is fine but people take it really seriously sometimes and just camp the day away. If I want to practice certain things, test out new characters, just do friendlies, I will either make an arena or join a public one. No penalty for losing there except you might have to wait in line for a game or two.
Answers in line. Basically just have a stable connection and get an ethernet adapter and you'll have an okay time.
 
Last edited:

TheDuke54

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
394
Quickplay can be a good way to train, cause you're going up against people and not cpus. At the same time, the lag level can make all the difference. And you're not going to have to master lag and adjust your movement and playstyle accordingly when going into a tournament or playing with friends to show them your better skills.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom