Is it true that Dark Samus might be a "Echo"es Character in Smash Ultimate?

[Shog]

I am even more hyped if that is possible: I just saw that Samus "Dark Samus" coloration is Dark Yellow(which looks badass btw) and that currently nobody saw a Dark Samus Assist Trophy ingame.

Could that be true? That would be siiick. Feel free to make me regret this post by pointing out if Assist Trophy Dark Samus already appeared.

also I didn't just start this thread due to the pun on one of the best Metroid Games, Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

 

[Crystanium]

I don't think we will, and even if that happens, I don't see the reason. I saw Daisy yesterday and she had the same moveset, as did Dark Pit from what I could tell.

 

[Varia31]

It seems like a logical thing to do if they don't want to make Dark Samus a separate character with its own moveset. Dark Samus should realistically be very different from Samus if you look at its abilities and how the boss fights pan out, but it wouldn't be unfitting for Smash Bros to make it just an altered version of Samus.

 

[DNeon]

I think it might happen. Maybe have her specials and attacks leave some kind of phazon looking paritcle trail

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

The Dark Samus assist trophy in Smash4 reused Samus's animations for all of it's attacks, just with a phazon effect over them. So it's possible. But we don't know how different an Echo character can be yet. They atleast have to be very very similair moves.

Would having phazon orbs instead of missles be too different for an Echo(es)? Who knows.

If she was in though, her run should have her floating menacingly.

 

[Reila]

She could be. I would be glad if she was. I would main her in heartbeat. But I wouldn't expect it.

With the Assist Trophy animations, it would be almost a waste to have her as an echo fighter instead of a Falcon/Ganondorf scenario. I know it takes a lot more to develop a character than what I am saying here, but Dark Samus AT has a bunch of moves that could replace Samus' specials. The tentacle slam, the floating balls, the rapid fire cannon (replacing the charge beam), etc. But in this case, she wouldn't be an echo. Echos are identical, save for different properties, to their original characters.

At any rate, having two new Metroid reps would be nice, and the two best villains in the series at that. One girl can dream.

 

[Reila]

I don't think we will, and even if that happens, I don't see the reason. I saw Daisy yesterday and she had the same moveset, as did Dark Pit from what I could tell.

The only reason is fanservice, really. Daisy is in Smash because she has fans and adding her wasn't as time consuming as adding a brand new character. Same goes for Lucina in Smash 4. Extremely popular character among Nintendo and of course, Fire Emblem fans.

Now, I will be the first to admit Dark Samus is far from being a fan favorite, BUT she is the title character from the most popular Metroid series, Metroid Prime. Whether one prefers Prime or traditional games, it is no secret that Prime games are more popular. Just look at how much people hyped the announcement of Metroid Prime 4. Now, is that a reason to add Dark Samus as an echo fighter? Absolutely not. But it can happen.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

If she is absent as we are led to think, it certainly is a possibility.

The entire aesthetic thing that SSBU has going for itself would fit well with Dark Samus’s phazon powers. And as we have seen with other Echo characters (and clones), she certainly could have unique properties that makes her visually different.

I’m not holding my breath but her inclusion sort of makes sense.

 

[verysleepywolf]

-Change particle effects on attacks.
-Change stances to be levitating and hunched over maliciously.
-Give cracked visor and feet with toes.
-Give tentacle grab instead of the grapple.
-Transformation into Metroid Prime as final smash.

There, that's Dark Samus as an echo fighter. Daisy wasn't exactly copy pasted, some extensive changes to animations were required to really display the difference in personality between her and Peach. And of course Daisy's attacks have particle effects stylized for Daisy. I don't see why they couldn't do the same thing with Dark Samus in a way that services the character.

 

[Crystanium]

The only reason is fanservice, really. Daisy is in Smash because she has fans and adding her wasn't as time consuming as adding a brand new character. Same goes for Lucina in Smash 4. Extremely popular character among Nintendo and of course, Fire Emblem fans.

Now, I will be the first to admit Dark Samus is far from being a fan favorite, BUT she is the title character from the most popular Metroid series, Metroid Prime. Whether one prefers Prime or traditional games, it is no secret that Prime games are more popular. Just look at how much people hyped the announcement of Metroid Prime 4. Now, is that a reason to add Dark Samus as an echo fighter? Absolutely not. But it can happen.

You're preaching to the choir. Dark Samus is a character I would have liked to play as.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It would fit better than most people would admit to honestly.

 

[Spirit Toons]

I say yes, the assist trophy is nowhere to be found as of now and it would add more Metroid characters to the roster and hype up the Prime series. We have already seen Nintendo put more emphasis on Metroid with the Switch and I feel that they genuinely want Metroid to succeed, so good marketing would lead Nintendo to use Smash as a vehicle to propel the Metroid franchise.

 

[Reila]

Anyone who says Dark Samus doesn't fit as an echo fighter is being delusional. Now whether she is popular enough to get into Smash is a different matter.

I say yes, the assist trophy is nowhere to be found as of now and it would add more Metroid characters to the roster and hype up the Prime series. We have already seen Nintendo put more emphasis on Metroid with the Switch and I feel that they genuinely want Metroid to succeed, so good marketing would lead Nintendo to use Smash as a vehicle to propel the Metroid franchise.

Supposedly Dark Samus/Metroid Prime isn't going to be in Metroid Prime 4, so that would be a funny way to promote the game. Or maybe (hopefully) she will be in Metroid Prime 4, because let's be honest, a Metroid Prime game without the Metroid Prime herself is dumb.

 

[Diem]

Three years ago, my ballot vote went to Dark Samus. I would love for her to be a totally different character, but I'll enthusiastically settle for an Echo Fighter. Just change some of her animations and effects and she'll be my new main, hands down.

Anyone who says Dark Samus doesn't fit as an echo fighter is being delusional. Now whether she is popular enough to get into Smash is a different matter.

Supposedly Dark Samus/Metroid Prime isn't going to be in Metroid Prime 4, so that would be a funny way to promote the game. Or maybe (hopefully) she will be in Metroid Prime 4, because let's be honest, a Metroid Prime game without the Metroid Prime herself is dumb.

"Prime" is more a designation of a specific brand/style of Metroid than it is associated with a character now. Metroid Prime: Hunters and Metroid Prime: Federation Force have nothing to do with the Metroid Prime creature, but they denote that they exist within the story bubble of the Prime setting and share much of its style or gameplay, as opposed to all the other Metroid games, which belong to a different style and gameplay. I highly doubt Dark Samus will be in Prime 4, though, since Phazon is apparently eradicated at the end of Prime 3.

It wouldn't be the first time a series created a title for itself that had such a specific association, and then ditched that association as they needed to expand. Halo is a good one, as the number of Halo games that actually have a Halo in them is now smaller than those that do.

That said, Dark Samus would still be a good representative of the Prime series, as she/it was the final boss of all three games in one way or another. If they wanted to advertise 4, they'd use Sylux, since he's been teased for a major role twice at the end of 3 and Federation Force, but he was only a minor character in Hunters. Though I sincerely doubt the new characters are going to be used to promote new or recent things, but rather the characters are going to older but hotly requested ones, like Ridley, Daisy, and Cloud. Not only that, but Prime 4 is still a ways away, and we don't know anything about it for sure, so no character inclusion is going to do much good right now.

 

[Reila]

Prime is related to the chracter Metroid Prime/Dark Samus. She was the main antagonist in all the three main Prime games.

There is no other way to look at it.

 

[Banjodorf]

I say yes, the assist trophy is nowhere to be found as of now and it would add more Metroid characters to the roster and hype up the Prime series. We have already seen Nintendo put more emphasis on Metroid with the Switch and I feel that they genuinely want Metroid to succeed, so good marketing would lead Nintendo to use Smash as a vehicle to propel the Metroid franchise.

Frankly I found the odd removal of the Dark Samus color palette just as telling. Like, it wouldn't have even meant it wasn't possible, considering we had a Dark Samus Assist already, but missing both of them is interesting.

I'm feeling pretty good about this one, myself.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Definitely look like it could be.

If you go to all the effort of Ridley, in for a Penny, In for a Pound. Well, more like in for half a ton, in for three quarters of a ton but you get what I mean.

 

[Aetheri]

All signs seem to favour her inclusion as an echo fighter. Although it doesn't necessarily mean too much since a lack of evidence to the contrary doesn't mean necessarily mean a confirmation.

As we saw with Ganondorf in Melee one thing that Sakurai looks for with regards to clones/Echoes is a similar body type, despite how different their abilities can be.

Dark Samus is one of my most wanted fighters so I'll be happy she's in regardless, however I would prefer if she was unique to better take advantage of her abilities.

 

[CardiganBoy]

I sure hope so, i'll main Dark Samus in a heartbeat and it all points that she could be playable, but i'm always cautious.
I just hope that Echo characters were more like Clones in Melee were they had very different properties, a twist to Samus' moveset would be amazing and Dark Samus is the perfect opportunity.

 

[Uffe]

It seems like a logical thing to do if they don't want to make Dark Samus a separate character with its own moveset. Dark Samus should realistically be very different from Samus if you look at its abilities and how the boss fights pan out, but it wouldn't be unfitting for Smash Bros to make it just an altered version of Samus.

It would definitely make more sense for her to be completely different than Samus. Lucas is much more different than Ness, and Wolf is much more different than Fox or Falco. I would hope that if Dark Samus were to be in Ultimate, that she'd be at least different enough. I think her specials would be the same for the most part, but everything else would be changed. Let's hope.

 

[verysleepywolf]

I also would greatly prefer a semi-clone Dark Samus instead of a straight clone.

It won't happen because of strict entry for newcomers. Precious development time will be primarily reserved for newcomers that represent multiple franchises and have resounding amounts of support. If we don't see Dark Samus in the base game as an echo or an assist trophy, then dlc as a fresh moveset fighter would seem highly likely. I'd say this about most of the missing assist trophies, if they indeed stay missing. I just don't think that Dark Samus will earn a non-echo roster slot considering the narrow conditions for new characters Sakurai has already set expectations for.

 

[Diem]

Prime is related to the chracter Metroid Prime/Dark Samus. She was the main antagonist in all the three main Prime games.

There is no other way to look at it.

Then what about Metroid Prime: Hunters and Metroid Prime: Federation Force? What's the relation there, besides style and continuity?

 

[IsmaR]

It's been confirmed that Prime refers to the universe in which the Prime trilogy takes place in, as well as the general gameplay style.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

-Change particle effects on attacks.
-Change stances to be levitating and hunched over maliciously.
-Give cracked visor and feet with toes.
-Give tentacle grab instead of the grapple.
-Transformation into Metroid Prime as final smash.

There, that's Dark Samus as an echo fighter. Daisy wasn't exactly copy pasted, some extensive changes to animations were required to really display the difference in personality between her and Peach. And of course Daisy's attacks have particle effects stylized for Daisy. I don't see why they couldn't do the same thing with Dark Samus in a way that services the character.

Bingo.
Thread's over, time to go home everyone.

 

[Sin Slash]

The one thing I'd be scared about Dark Samus being an Echo fighter is, because all Echo Fighters use the exact same movement animations, she will walk and run instead of hover above the ground.

 

[Dreamking]

Please note, I've never played any of the Prime games. That said, I'd be fine with Dark Samus being an Echo. Even better would a Luigified version which would incorporate the attacks she uses as an Assist trophy.

 

[meleebrawler]

Please note, I've never played any of the Prime games. That said, I'd be fine with Dark Samus being an Echo. Even better would a Luigified version which would incorporate the attacks she uses as an Assist trophy.

''Luigifying'' someone no longer makes them an echo.

 

[Uffe]

I also would greatly prefer a semi-clone Dark Samus instead of a straight clone.

It won't happen because of strict entry for newcomers. Precious development time will be primarily reserved for newcomers that represent multiple franchises and have resounding amounts of support. If we don't see Dark Samus in the base game as an echo or an assist trophy, then dlc as a fresh moveset fighter would seem highly likely. I'd say this about most of the missing assist trophies, if they indeed stay missing. I just don't think that Dark Samus will earn a non-echo roster slot considering the narrow conditions for new characters Sakurai has already set expectations for.

I'd prefer no Dark Samus if she's just going to be an Echo character. The only reason I'd be fine with her specials being similar to Samus' is because characters like Lucas, Wolf, even Luigi, basically have the same specials as their counterparts, just with different properties, minus Luigi's down B compared to Mario's. Dark Samus showed off a lot of abilities in the Prime series that Sakurai and Co. could easily replicate some of the gestures and motions. If she came out as DLC, I would hope she's not an Echo clone, just like they did to Roy. He's got a different jab and B special, maybe another attack I'm missing, but he's still a clone. And different properties don't transition a clone character into their own character, otherwise Lucina wouldn't be a clone character to Marth. I know you never stated any of this, but I just feel like I need to say this, because some people don't understand.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Dark Samus as an echo seems to be a fairly likely thing. Which, as a DS supporter, makes me said as her AT definitely showed she has the capability to be a new original fighter.

 

[meleebrawler]

Reading these kinds of posts, the difference bewtween the support for Ridley and that of Dark Samus is as clear as night & day.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

Reading these kinds of posts, the difference bewtween the support for Ridley and that of Dark Samus is as clear as night & day.

Meaning?

 

[meleebrawler]

Well, I dunno, Ridley supporters kept on fighting to the bitter end even when Sakurai himself spoke against making him playable.
Dark Samus received no such unconfirmation, yet the mere mention of a new term for clones seems to be enough proof for most that
that is exactly what Dark Samus will be? It's not like the Ridley supporters immediately started considering him an echo of Charizard or something
like that.

I understand tempering one's expectations, but nothing about that announcement states that she can't be a semi-clone or something else
entirely.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Well doesn’t help that Dark Samus and her story was repeatedly said to be done and over with, so not having a future beyond Prime 3, her fans can’t really afford to be picky and will just take whatever if it means her being playable. Her support was at its strongest during pre-Brawl, and would only naturally start to decline when Ridley was still having comeback after comeback in his series...

Still, I would like for Dark Samus fans to get their happy ending too. Sylux I’m still accepting of at this point as well but he kinda needs to earn his keep first.

 

[Aetheri]

Well, I dunno, Ridley supporters kept on fighting to the bitter end even when Sakurai himself spoke against making him playable.
Dark Samus received no such unconfirmation, yet the mere mention of a new term for clones seems to be enough proof for most that
that is exactly what Dark Samus will be? It's not like the Ridley supporters immediately started considering him an echo of Charizard or something
like that.

I understand tempering one's expectations, but nothing about that announcement states that she can't be a semi-clone or something else
entirely.

Ridley had numbers on his side first of all...which was also a big (no pun intended) detriment to the support that Dark Samus had recieved, which was very minimal. Even less still since her last appearance was more than a decade ago and with no foreseeable future hurting her chances even more.

When looking at characters like Ganondorf in Melee despite his very obvious differences with Falcon, there's one thing that Sakurai looked at as a way to get the character into Melee, and that was having a very similar body type. Which Dark Samus of course has compared to Samus. I've advocated for years that Dark Samus wouldn't and shouldn't be a clone of Samus but there's no real reason to think that Sakurai wouldn't consider the option if he was going to add her.

At this point her getting in as an echo fighter/clone is a compromise since there's really no other way we'll even be able to play as her (outside of fan-mods). And let's face it, with the limited amount of time spent on new characters for Ultimate and the vast amount of popular characters to choose from (which included Ridley which is a big (pun intended) bone thrwon to the Metroid fanbase as it is, Sakurai is not likely to spend very much time on Dark Samus considering the other factors going against her. At this point in time, she's getting in as either a clone or not at all and that's something us Dark Samus supporters have pretty grown to accept. There is a small chance that she may be a Pichu/YLink/Dr. Mario style clone with a bit of extra work put into her but even that's hoping for a lot at this point.

 

[Diem]

The one thing I'd be scared about Dark Samus being an Echo fighter is, because all Echo Fighters use the exact same movement animations, she will walk and run instead of hover above the ground.

I said this in another thread I think, but they have hovering already with Cloud and Mewtwo. They could just do the same to Dark Samus, which wouldn't be too major of a change to gameplay, especially considering that it'd just be a small animation change.

 

[Crystanium]

-Change particle effects on attacks.
-Change stances to be levitating and hunched over maliciously.
-Give cracked visor and feet with toes.
-Give tentacle grab instead of the grapple.
-Transformation into Metroid Prime as final smash.

I have some disagreements.

• Since Dark Samus would likely be an echo character, changing Charge Shot to appear as a scattershot variant probably wouldn't happen.
• Levitating could be interesting, but the hunched over idea as seen from the assist trophy looks silly. I don't recall Dark Samus ever standing like that.
• A cracked visor doesn't make sense. As for the toes, I don't know what Retro Studios was thinking of when they made Metroid Prime 2: Echoes.
• Why give Dark Samus a tether grab, when she's never demonstrated this?
• Transforming into Aurora Unit 313 would make more sense. Metroid Prime became Dark Samus, who became Aurora Unit 313.

 

[The21stSmasher]

Yeah, quite possibly; I can careless for Samus, but knowing her Dark Samus color is no more, it ain't like it isn't likely at all.

 

[verysleepywolf]

Since Dark Samus would likely be an echo character, changing Charge Shot to appear as a scattershot variant probably wouldn't happen.

I didn't mention any other type of beam, just changing the aesthetics of the existing charge shot. They could make numeric changes to its attributes so that it has different behaviors, but a totally different projectile is out of the question for a straight clone / echo. I don't know if you were criticizing or suggesting.

Levitating could be interesting, but the hunched over idea as seen from the assist trophy looks silly. I don't recall Dark Samus ever standing like that.

Pretty sure that hunching over is a part of Dark Samus' many animations in combat, at least in Prime 2. I don't remember Prime 3 as clearly. But I don't think it's silly for a villain born of bloodlust and radioactive sci-fi death substance to have altered animations reflecting a villainous personality. Either way, changes to animations would be necessary. Not really a compelling debate to be had here, bottom line is Dark Samus' personality needs to be portrayed correctly in the animation.

A cracked visor doesn't make sense. As for the toes, I don't know what Retro Studios was thinking of when they made Metroid Prime 2: Echoes.

For some reason I could recall that Dark Samus had a cracked visor but I can't find a screenshot. So I think that's a valid correction. But the toes are important; Dark Samus is an organic being, not a creature in a suit. The toes show that Dark Samus' form is actually the suit itself, which is why it has toes that flex and move as if they are its feet. Pretty sure Retro studios was seeing it this way when designing. Again I could be wrong and I love being corrected when it is valid.

Why give Dark Samus a tether grab, when she's never demonstrated this?

For the same reason scattershot couldn't happen as you pointed out earlier. Are we talking echo character or semi-clone? I was talking about an echo character, which means same grab but different visuals and data. Is this clear? If Dark Samus was a semi-clone or even a completely fresh moveset, then they could do literally whatever they wanted with the grab. They could also do scattershot, big seismic phazon tentacle waves, etc. C'mon dude, consistency.

Transforming into Aurora Unit 313 would make more sense. Metroid Prime became Dark Samus, who became Aurora Unit 313.

My only argument here is that Metroid Prime is cooler haha. But that is also a valid point you mention.

I couldn't tell if you were being aggressive or just adding on to what I said, but I did want to point these out.

 

[Aetheri]

Dark Samus uses the Phazon suit like an exoskeleton over her body's internal structures more than an actual suit. Thus giving her a more organic feel compared to Samus, as a result her toes shows she is still developing within the suit. She no longer has her toes in Prime 3 because she becomes more of a developed being and a more complete organism.

Metroid Prime as a potential Final Smash would be cool but makes little sense as she is no longer able to trasform into her previous form after she has merged with Samus's Phazon suit.

 

[Deleted member]

Please note, I've never played any of the Prime games. That said, I'd be fine with Dark Samus being an Echo.

This is my impression of most people wanting Dark Samus as an echo fighter.

Of course Sakurai has been known to not accurately depict a character before, and even Samus to me doesn't feel like how I would prefer her to represented. I've played the Prime Trilogy and I just rewatched the battles with Dark Samus. Really Dark Samus would best fit as a clone of Samus the same way Lucas is of Ness or Wolf is of Fox--they might share some specials and a couple other moves, but I still don't think it makes as much sense as Daisy being an echo of Peach or Dark Pit of Pit (although to be fair I haven't finished KI: Uprising yet).

In a similar way that Sakurai felt it wouldn't be appropriate for Dark Pit to use Pit's FS and thus justified making some other changes and rendering him a clone, there are some things that I feel would have to be changed from Samus besides just visual effects.
1. Running animation needs to be a float, although even Samus's walking animation wouldn't quite fit the way Dark Samus moves.
2. I just don't see Dark Samus using Bombs--never happened in the games, plus Dark Samus never morphed that small into a ball (and neither does Samus in the Prime games or really most of them--it's a small tangent, but I hate how small the Morph Ball is in the Smash games. In Prime you can clearly see she would actually fit inside of it without shrinking, and even in other games like Samus Returns it's not that small)

I mean ideally other changes would take place, like the scatter shot instead of the charge shot, replace several standard attacks with more suitable animations. So it really depends on how many changes Sakurai would make, assuming Dark Samus is based on Samus, and assuming she even makes it in the game. He may reveal tomorrow in a blog update that Dark Samus is still an Assist Trophy, who knows.