Is it "scummy" to enter a tournament you're hosting?

[Crenando]

So, I hosted a small fundraiser tournament recently where me and all of the TOs (there were about 3 of us) entered for the hell of it. I was the "lead" TO, so to speak, and also turned out to be the winner. Now, despite the fact that there wasn't actually prize money (this being a fundraiser and all), some of the players who attended started talking behind my back about how "only a scumbag would host and play in a tournament." The thing is, they're exclusively angry at me. None of the other TOs were being salted on, so I assumed they were only mad because I won. Eventually, I got thinking... Maybe it is an unsavory move to compete in a tournament you helped to organize.

To resolve this for myself, it'd be great to see how other players feel about the issue. Give your input via the poll, as well as in a reply if you think the choices don't outline how you feel.

 

[Ulevo]

So, I hosted a small fundraiser tournament recently where me and all of the TOs (there were about 3 of us) entered for the hell of it. I was the "lead" TO, so to speak, and also turned out to be the winner. Now, despite the fact that there wasn't actually prize money (this being a fundraiser and all), some of the players who attended started talking behind my back about how "only a scumbag would host and play in a tournament." The thing is, they're exclusively angry at me. None of the other TOs were being salted on, so I assumed they were only mad because I won. Eventually, I got thinking... Maybe it is an unsavory move to compete in a tournament you helped to organize.

To resolve this for myself, it'd be great to see how other players feel about the issue. Give your input via the poll, as well as in a reply if you think the choices don't outline how you feel.

They're being dumb.

 

[Crenando]

They're being dumb.

I kind of figured such. Probably won't play in the next one I organize just so that more people show up. :/

 

[Pazx]

The short answer is "no". If you won the tournament fairly, then it doesn't matter that you were the one organising it, provided you still pay all the entry fees etc.

I believe it was Caotic who used to host tournaments and win the vast majority of them, but as he was dominating his region for the most part he wouldn't take any of the prize money. You could do that, if it would make both your attendees (who are paying customers and you have to view them as such) and yourself happier than the alternative.

 

[Crenando]

The short answer is "no". If you won the tournament fairly, then it doesn't matter that you were the one organising it, provided you still pay all the entry fees etc.

I believe it was Caotic who used to host tournaments and win the vast majority of them, but as he was dominating his region for the most part he wouldn't take any of the prize money. You could do that, if it would make both your attendees (who are paying customers and you have to view them as such) and yourself happier than the alternative.

That's true. If there were a prize, I would probably turn it down.

 

[DanGR]

I say "no", it's not scummy with a prize pool or not, with the assumption you don't compromise the integrity of the tournament with biased seeding (always get help from multiple sources), and that you don't hold up the tournament or make it a worse experience for other players by not having enough people to properly run the tournament.

 

[Pazx]

I say "no", it's not scummy with a prize pool or not, with the assumption you don't compromise the integrity of the tournament with biased seeding (always get help from multiple sources), and that you don't hold up the tournament or make it a worse experience for other players by not having enough people to properly run the tournament.

This is important, your commitment to the tournament as the TO has to be bigger than your commitment to the tournament as a player. If you playing your matches interferes with your ability to run the tournament successfully and punctually you should be willing to forfeit. Also, don't rig the bracket in your favour, or anyone's favour.

 

[Crenando]

I say "no", it's not scummy with a prize pool or not, with the assumption you don't compromise the integrity of the tournament with biased seeding (always get help from multiple sources), and that you don't hold up the tournament or make it a worse experience for other players by not having enough people to properly run the tournament.

Of course. We always randomize the seeding right before we start, anyway. There's always at least one TO not playing, anyway.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

I would say it's scummy only if you are #1 on your local PR. The #1 on my local PR actually used to run biweeklies, and he would never enter them because he has never lost a local tournament (at least, not for a very long time), and so entering his own tourneys would essentially be inviting people to give him money.

 

[GeflGabe]

I don't see anything wrong there. If you play fair or pay fees like any other player entering the tournament then as long as you didn't rig it or something it should be perfectly fine to enter it. No where close to "scummy" to me.

 

[Megamang]

TheHypnotoad makes a solid point. I would say there is a difference between having a good run and happening to win your tournament, and entering when you know there is a really good chance you will win. Players don't like to feel tricked, even if you didn't intend to at all. So, if you destroy everyone, its natural for people to think 'wow, he just invited me here to beat me/raise money for a resume point (seriously, its sad but ive heard it) and he knew he would destroy'. I'd say try and explain your situation to the people who complained, maybe ask why they feel that way, and hold off on joining the next tournament. Or, you said that there is always one of the 3 TOs not playing? Maybe rotate someone to be in charge each time, let him be the 'TO' and the others can enter and only work as helping organize the tournament instead of the title of TO.


Of course, it is natural to think someone who decides the rules and then wins did something to rig it, but we have a standardized ruleset to a point where this is pretty unlikely. I'd say take the temperature of everyone's feeling in your community; sometimes they just don't like the TO to be dominant, and you have to let up for a bit and let your community grow without interference. Its part of being a good TO. The fact you are concerned about it means you are already taking steps to being a better TO.

And sometimes, people are just salty because they lost and there is nothing you can do about it. It sounds like a fundraiser tournament might be inviting people who are less involved in the smash scene. Some people, in any game, think they are the greatest, and will stop playing when they realize they aren't. Nothing you can reasonably do to fix that.

 

[FullMoon]

Here in my state the T.Os are a crew comprised of basically some of the best players in the state to the point that last tournament the top 4 was comprised of 3 members of that crew plus me.

But here we have so little in terms of tournaments we really don't care about te T.Os playing and more we just want to play. If they're winning it's because they're good, it's not like they're rigging the game or anything.

I dunno, just sounds like a really trivial thing to complain about to me.

 

[Crenando]

I would say it's scummy only if you are #1 on your local PR. The #1 on my local PR actually used to run biweeklies, and he would never enter them because he has never lost a local tournament (at least, not for a very long time), and so entering his own tourneys would essentially be inviting people to give him money.

I'm not the best in my region by a long shot (IQHQ live and play here). The people who showed up to this just happened to be either as good as me or worse. It was kind of a small event.

 

[FSLink]

They're being salty, but yeah you also don't want to have the perception that you're creating tourneys to pay your bills, lol I agree with TheHypnotoad on that point.

 

[Raijinken]

Sounds like they're just salty. I personally don't enter my own tournaments, but there's nothing wrong with it in general. I just use my events as a chance to watch others and promote my ruleset, and since I don't have co-TOs, I need to be available at all times. Then again, my tournaments aren't for money, and I am the best of my friend circle, who comprise 90% of the attendees.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

In theory there's no issue as long as you don't take advantage of your role as a TO to give yourself an easier bracket run, or shenanigans involving fees or prize money, etc. Having someone else there to check your work would help a lot.

In practice, I'm reminded of standard business guidelines for avoiding conflicts of interest. Namely, one is supposed to avoid doing things that may give even the appearance of impropriety, even if nothing untoward is actually happening. The point is to not give anyone a reason to even suspect you of wrongdoing because accusations are still damaging regardless of their validity.

Food for thought.

 

[C0rvus]

Even if it was for money, the impetus is on everyone else to get better if they want to win. That doesn't change, TO or no. Those guys just sounded salty. They want the easy way in.

 

[dav3yb]

the only issue i have with TOs entering their own tournament is when they neglect their TO duties to play.

I've been to events where people were sitting around waiting because there wasnt a TO to manage the bracket properly. Otherwise people just need to git gud

 

[Luigi player]

That would basically be like saying top players aren't allowed to host and enter their own tourneys. In what world could anyone believe that this would be wrong?
It's a tourney like any other, who the host is shouldn't matter for this. People should be happy that there is a tourney in the first place. Why would you care who hosts it? It's there, it's running, people are having fun and competing for money (most of the time), just like everywhere else. The difference is that the top player(s) aren't only even playing, they're providing the playing ground / tourney / hosting for everyone. That this game is being played for money is a whole different point, and if it's a good or bad thing.

Top players go to tourneys and take your money all the time. I don't see too much of a difference between them hosting it and not. Just be happy that there are tourneys and if you don't like that because you feel like they're basically robbing you for whatever reason since that happens at every tourney to all non-top placing people then just don't attend.


In our region we're having weeklies with prizes and people hosting small smashfests sometimes, but without entry. Sometimes bigger tourneys are hosted by the guys and we're playing with entry fee. There are a lot of people always waiting for these big events and are happy they can attend. Maybe there is a little bit of salt for the money but it's generally just accepted that this is how the competitive smash community does things, at least outside of Japan.

 

[Ryuki of Spiral Rhapsody]

It's not like you're flexing your muscle as a TO to alter the event in your favor.

You literally established that it was for a fundraiser, too.

 

[smashbro29]

No but the decision making power has to be given to a non-entrant.

 

[Browny]

As long as you didn't rig the seeding/bracket, you're fine.

 

[Treveen]

the only way it could be scummy is if you looked only for bad players and hosted a small private tournament for them, charged a fee for a prize, and then entered yourself. anything short of that is ok

 

[Razmord]

As a TO, I play in all the tournaments I do because thats why I do them, because I want to have a fun time playing smash and there aren't any other good tournaments around here.To prevent people from being like that, I try to be as trasparent and standard as possible. Rules are as close as posible to my country standard, seeding is made according to a skillkeeper ranking that everyone can check, I explain everything clearly and when I have to take a decision, I explain to everyone why I took it. If that decision affects me directly (controller fails mid match or whatever), I will let people vote or go harder on me, softer on rival (game loss instead of stock loss, set loss instead of game loss). If, doing all of this correctly, people still complained, I would show them the doors, because they would be complaining because they have bad intentions instead of just being concerned about the fairness of the event, and I don't work as hard I do for people like that.

 

[Crenando]

No but the decision making power has to be given to a non-entrant.

In a well-run tournament, there is no "decision-based" factor when it comes to who wins or loses. All I do is randomize the seeding, report games, and answer questions, to be honest.

 

[Simperheve]

I don't think it's "Scummy" or anything. I think a lot of TOs simply opt not to do so because they're just too busy. In a previous tournament I played the TO in our first game, and people were constantly trying to get his attention when he was playing. And then when he tried to play friendlies later, he got called away and ended up forgetting about his controller.

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

The only way I could see it being scummy is if you play in the tournament and then shut it down if you lose.
Although, it'd probably be pretty funny.

 

[The Real Mr. M]

I have no issue with TO's entering their own tournaments. I've gone to tournaments where the TO is one of the top players in the area, and I have never heard anyone complain about it. When I lost to him in the last one I went to, I did not think, "This guy shouldn't be in a tournament that he runs!", but rather, "Wow, this guy's a good player!", and "How the heck do I fight Corrin?"

Granted, I'm not completely unbiased in this, as I enter the local school tournaments that I put together (and win) but the only comments about how I put the events together to win them are done jokingly by very good friends of mine. I would say that you should be fine in entering your tournaments, and enjoy them to the best of your ability, in both playing in them and in running them. Hope this helps.

 

[Big-Cat]

The only real issue that comes up is that the tournament pacing slows down the TO plays. depends on how much though.

 

[smashbro29]

In a well-run tournament, there is no "decision-based" factor when it comes to who wins or loses. All I do is randomize the seeding, report games, and answer questions, to be honest.

Yeah but just in case to make it super extra fair an entrant shouldn't hold any power if a decision is needed.