Is it me, or is controlling Luma incredibly unwieldy?

[Necro'lic]

I decided to come out of hiatus and make another "redesign" thread because I've gotten some fun ideas and a new format for how I show off my outlandish ideas, and I wanted to go with Rosalina next. Mostly because I find her main gimmick, Luma, is the least realized out of all other "gimmick based" fighters simply because Luma is so hard to control, at least in terms of spacing.

However, I wanted the opinion of actual Rosalina players on this matter. Does Luma feel horribly inconsistent and unwieldy to try and control when separate from Rosa? I always feel he does, to the point where I don't even bother separating them, meaning the entire purpose and concept of mirroring each others' moves is wasted solely on poor execution. But maybe I'm just terribad.

 

[a_a]

I am with you, Rosalina herself is easy to play, But Rosalina and Luma are terrible together.

I suggest to make Rosalina a single fighter. (without Luma)

I mean a buffed version of Rosalina because she is alone.

 

[Necro'lic]

I am with you, Rosalina herself is easy to play, But Rosalina and Luma are terrible together.

I suggest to make Rosalina a single fighter. (without Luma)

I mean a buffed version of Rosalina because she is alone.

I'd rather not. Her gimmick is unique and I feel can add a lot to the game if tweaked to be easier to play with.

 

[StarKing64]

Luma definitely feels pretty unwieldy (at least to me), mostly because once you’ve sent him out, he’s just sort of out there and you can’t really directly manipulate him in any way save for making him attack and calling him back. I think being able to command Luma to do a little mini dash left or right for microspacing, or even jump for anti-airing, would go a long way towards making Rosalina feel like she’s more in control. As it stands, for a puppet fighter she doesn’t feel like she’s doing enough... puppeteering, if that makes any sense. I’d like to see your ideas for her, too!

Also, not related to Luma’s unwieldiness, but I really hate how Luma can still attack even when Rosa is grabbed, buried, or shield broken. Feels like the game is punishing you for doing something right

 

[Flowen231]

Also, not related to Luma’s unwieldiness, but I really hate how Luma can still attack even when Rosa is grabbed, buried, or shield broken. Feels like the game is punishing you for doing something right

It's punishing you for not getting rid of Luma ;p. And pro tip, Luma can't break you out of throw invincibility, it's just best not to pummel Rosa when Luma is present.

On topic though, Luma isn't really unwieldy once you get to know what he's gonna do once you toss him out. Almost all of the smash 4 rules that determine what actions Luma will take still exist, and NickLeo shows all of the new behaviors on his Rosa guide. The issue is that Luma always responds after Rosa and never at the same time. That issue has been fixed a bit with some of her moves; When you jab, up smash, or f smash backwards Luma teleports to the proper position when he and Rosa are attached, but luma will always fail to get into position with aerials, and as a result you lose effective range.

Being un-tethered is actually far more consistent if you know the rules Luma will follow, and YES, it is difficult to do something with that, and it becomes all the more impractical the more your opponent recognizes their options against it.

 

[Necro'lic]

It's punishing you for not getting rid of Luma ;p. And pro tip, Luma can't break you out of throw invincibility, it's just best not to pummel Rosa when Luma is present.

On topic though, Luma isn't really unwieldy once you get to know what he's gonna do once you toss him out. Almost all of the smash 4 rules that determine what actions Luma will take still exist, and NickLeo shows all of the new behaviors on his Rosa guide. The issue is that Luma always responds after Rosa and never at the same time. That issue has been fixed a bit with some of her moves; When you jab, up smash, or f smash backwards Luma teleports to the proper position when he and Rosa are attached, but luma will always fail to get into position with aerials, and as a result you lose effective range.

Being un-tethered is actually far more consistent if you know the rules Luma will follow, and YES, it is difficult to do something with that, and it becomes all the more impractical the more your opponent recognizes their options against it.

Thank you for being a bit more minute in the details on Luma. This is exactly what I was looking for in this thread.

I think a big problem with Luma is him staying in position whenever you turn around with Rosalina. I think I found a bit of a solution to that that involves temporary control of Luma's position or simply making him much faster when Rosalina turns around, or even allowing him to teleport in the exact instance she turns. I haven't decided yet if it's needed though, since I'm sure Rosa's gameplan just involves staying behind Luma on one side of the stage, so it would be redundant, but the convenience should outweigh that maybe.

 

[Flowen231]

Thank you for being a bit more minute in the details on Luma. This is exactly what I was looking for in this thread.

I think a big problem with Luma is him staying in position whenever you turn around with Rosalina. I think I found a bit of a solution to that that involves temporary control of Luma's position or simply making him much faster when Rosalina turns around, or even allowing him to teleport in the exact instance she turns. I haven't decided yet if it's needed though, since I'm sure Rosa's game plan just involves staying behind Luma on one side of the stage, so it would be redundant, but the convenience should outweigh that maybe.

That is the smash 4 Rosa game plan. In smash 4 Rosa was actually pretty decent at approaching when she had to, but people mostly played defensive because she had the tools to do so and they were extremely rewarding. In this game Rosa has to make many more aggressive plays because her defensive options are nowhere near as good. On top of that defending in this game is also extremely bad with Rosa because Luma cannot air dodge, roll, spot dodge, and your shield doesn't protect him. Combined with how laughably easy it is to tumble Luma in this game, making aggressive plays is a must, not because they are good (they got nerfed too), but because if you don't people will just pressure Luma to death even if you aren't getting hit, and you then become a worse character.

Side rant too: It's stupid how Luma can't roll, spot dodge, or air dodge. Luma getting hit extends hitbox duration which can very easily cause beefier hits to linger past Rosa's iframes.

But in all honesty I agree that an instant turn around teleport for Luma wouldn't really matter ;p. Rosa has more problems than just Luma not working consistently while tethered. Gimmicky and fun aside I don't see any tech bringing her back in any capacity.