Is It Just Me or is Ness' Grab Range Bad?

[Uffe]

The first thing I've noticed about Ness in Ultimate was his horrible grab range. It's like Melee Ness all over again in that regard. It's so difficult to tomahawk defensive players in this game. I think we should all make this noticed to Sakurai or whoever if they ever plan on updating characters. Ness' PK Thunder 2 was nerfed, his PK Flash was nerfed, so why did they have to nerf his grab range as well? If Ness even gets a buff, all I'm asking for is a grab range like he had in Sm4sh.

 

[Specs64z]

I disagree that PK flash and PKT2 are nerfed. They don’t outright kill quite as early, but their new properties make them better overall imo. PK flash is notably faster, has a little more forward range, and no longer sends Ness into free fall, giving it far more utility as an edguard and juggle mixup. Even with the nerf, it’s kill power is still pretty absurd given how noncommital it is.

PKT2 doesn’t kill as early and also lost it’s side hitboxes that sent opponents away from Ness (and if it still has them, then I haven’t landed a single one in my 40+ hours put into the character), but the introduction of untechable knockback makes it kill so much more consistently offstage. Once your opponent is at 30-50%, any edgeguard has to be super on point or they’re super dead.

As for a grab range nerf, I honestly haven’t even noticed, assuming that’s true. Do you have a source for this?

I don’t think Ness really needs any big buffs right now. His movement and (warning: very subjective opinions incoming) recovery are better than ever, and with PKT being as busted as it is, Ness might actually stick around in high tier this time around.

 

[Uffe]

I disagree that PK flash and PKT2 are nerfed. They don’t outright kill quite as early, but their new properties make them better overall imo. PK flash is notably faster, has a little more forward range, and no longer sends Ness into free fall, giving it far more utility as an edguard and juggle mixup. Even with the nerf, it’s kill power is still pretty absurd given how noncommital it is.

PKT2 doesn’t kill as early and also lost it’s side hitboxes that sent opponents away from Ness (and if it still has them, then I haven’t landed a single one in my 40+ hours put into the character), but the introduction of untechable knockback makes it kill so much more consistently offstage. Once your opponent is at 30-50%, any edgeguard has to be super on point or they’re super dead.

As for a grab range nerf, I honestly haven’t even noticed, assuming that’s true. Do you have a source for this?

I don’t think Ness really needs any big buffs right now. His movement and (warning: very subjective opinions incoming) recovery are better than ever, and with PKT being as busted as it is, Ness might actually stick around in high tier this time around.

PK Flash was nerfed because it doesn't kill as early. Yes, the trade off was to make it move faster, which is something I wish Sakurai and his team would do when it comes to balancing in general. The reason I said PK Thunder 2 is nerfed is because it doesn't kill as early. It should have remained that way because you can't just throw out PKT2 and land it the majority of the time. Anymore nerfs to it and it'll become an irrelevant kill option. The only source I have for nerfed grab range is that it was easier for me to do in Sm4sh. Now, it's like when I'm close to my opponent, my grab whiffs when it would be connecting if this were Brawl or Sm4sh.

 

[pollo20x620x6]

I'm a Ness main and even I felt like his grab in Smash 4 was a little overpowered. Like, there were matches where I would intentionally throw in any direction other than back because I felt like it was such an lackluster way of ending a match. Now that it's harder to grab in Ultimate, I feel it's a little more fair. A throw that kills at high percentages from any point on the stage in exchange for it being hard to land. It may not be tournament-viable, but then again, if it was, less skilled players could just abuse it.

 

[Specs64z]

PK Flash was nerfed because it doesn't kill as early. Yes, the trade off was to make it move faster, which is something I wish Sakurai and his team would do when it comes to balancing in general. The reason I said PK Thunder 2 is nerfed is because it doesn't kill as early. It should have remained that way because you can't just throw out PKT2 and land it the majority of the time. Anymore nerfs to it and it'll become an irrelevant kill option. The only source I have for nerfed grab range is that it was easier for me to do in Sm4sh. Now, it's like when I'm close to my opponent, my grab whiffs when it would be connecting if this were Brawl or Sm4sh.

PKT2 still kills stupidly early, and is easier to land than most moves of similar caliber (especially with the airdidge nerf). The knockback reduction really hasn’t changed how it’s used or even how effective it is. And yeah, if it gets nerfed further it will lose it’s luster, but that’s not a relevant point to the discussion at hand.

As for grabs being harder to land, that’s just how SSBU is in general. Shield stun is higher, Ness’s dash grab is a frame slower, and pivot grabs aren’t very useful anymore, so that might explain your troubles.

 

[Uffe]

PKT2 still kills stupidly early, and is easier to land than most moves of similar caliber (especially with the airdidge nerf). The knockback reduction really hasn’t changed how it’s used or even how effective it is. And yeah, if it gets nerfed further it will lose it’s luster, but that’s not a relevant point to the discussion at hand.

As for grabs being harder to land, that’s just how SSBU is in general. Shield stun is higher, Ness’s dash grab is a frame slower, and pivot grabs aren’t very useful anymore, so that might explain your troubles.

In Sm4sh, I could be back to back against my opponent and pivot grab out of shield. Now it doesn't work for Ness in Ultimate. Of course someone posted Awestin doing this with Ness, so I'm really confused about that.

 

[MG_3989]

Grabbing in general was nerfed in Ultimate. It’s not really a safe option for any character out of shield anymore. I’ll take his grab range being nerfed for all of the good things Ultimate has brought him and how well he preforms on this engine. To me Ness has never felt better

 

[L9999]

I'm a Ness main and even I felt like his grab in Smash 4 was a little overpowered. Like, there were matches where I would intentionally throw in any direction other than back because I felt like it was such an lackluster way of ending a match. Now that it's harder to grab in Ultimate, I feel it's a little more fair. A throw that kills at high percentages from any point on the stage in exchange for it being hard to land. It may not be tournament-viable, but then again, if it was, less skilled players could just abuse it.

If a character has a strong option use it. Don't be a wuss.

 

[Specs64z]

If a character has a strong option use it. Don't be a wuss.

Better idea: don’t be rude to others for playing the game how they want to play it. If he doesn’t like using back throws, that’s his perogative. If you think that’s bad, then be constructive about it.

 

[L9999]

Better idea: don’t be rude to others for playing the game how they want to play it. If he doesn’t like using back throws, that’s his perogative. If you think that’s bad, then be constructive about it.

Giving away games isn't very intelligent.