Is it even possible to win with low tiers??

[Isaac4]

I used to be a marth main but it always felt like I mained him because he was top tier rather than actually enjoying his playstyle (which I do but not enough for me to want to main him). Ever sinceI stopped using Marth I've practiced as Mewto but I know it's always going to be an uphill battle. I just want to know if it's even worth it to practice a low tier character and not just go with someone like Marth or Shiek.

 

[DDRC]

Players manage to push through but tbh the lowest character on the tier list i would say you have a real shot of winning a tournament with is ganondorf and above. If you really love mewtwo stick to him as there are good low tier players, but your best bet is finding someone else you feel comfy with higher up the ladder if you can.

 

[Zoa]

I would advise against a low or mid tier with maybe an exception to Young Link (I'm convinced his placing is largely due to low representation). If you want to win, you will need a top tier character. Especially with how many years of the meta has developed.

 

[MalanoMan]

In my opinion, its possible, but highly unlikely. In order to do so, I think you need an extreme amount of discipline and patience. You always have to be there to punish when the opportunity presents itself. You always have to be ahead of your opponent if they're using a higher tier character. You have to execute on everything technically like your wavedashes and lcancels. Flubs at lower tiers will hurt more than at higher tiers.

Edit: to add to my argument, this you should watch this video of aMSa vs Plup during Summit 7. I swear aMSa is the best player in the world when his Yoshi is on point.

 

[zuloon]

Yes, see Hbox (the GOAT)

 

[MalanoMan]

Yes, see Hbox (the GOAT)

Idk if i would call Jiggs a low tier, my guy.

 

[DDRC]

Yes, see Hbox (the GOAT)

>calling one of the best characters in the game low tier

 

[zuloon]

>calling one of the best characters in the game low tier

You're only saying that because Hbox is so good

Who is the next best Jiggs player?

There you go

 

[MalanoMan]

You're only saying that because Hbox is so good

Who is the next best Jiggs player?

There you go

The logic that jiggs is a low tier character because HBOX mains her is totally broken. HBOX is the best because he understands Jiggs strengths and weaknesses and has been in so many tournaments/finals that he knows the meta and understands how to get the job done under pressure. Look at that last stock, HBOX vs Axe in Genesis 6. Axe totally choked. HBOX kept his composure.

Take a look at this list https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBM_tier_lists_(NTSC) (Scroll down to 2015)

If jiggs is a low tier character, then she goes with G&W, Roy, Mewtwo, Zelda, Ness, and the like. These characters have clear issues in the meta, which is why they are "low tier". Jiggs does not have this problem. Jiggs wins tournaments. Jiggs is not a low tier.

 

[zuloon]

The logic that jiggs is a low tier character because HBOX mains her is totally broken. HBOX is the best because he understands Jiggs strengths and weaknesses and has been in so many tournaments/finals that he knows the meta and understands how to get the job done under pressure. Look at that last stock, HBOX vs Axe in Genesis 6. Axe totally choked. HBOX kept his composure.

Take a look at this list https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBM_tier_lists_(NTSC) (Scroll down to 2015)

If jiggs is a low tier character, then she goes with G&W, Roy, Mewtwo, Zelda, Ness, and the like. These characters have clear issues in the meta, which is why they are "low tier". Jiggs does not have this problem. Jiggs wins tournaments. Jiggs is not a low tier.

ridiculously stupid argument honestly

so are samus and shiek high tier just because plup plays them

 

[MalanoMan]

You're calling my argument ridiculous and stupid, but you don't say why. That doesn't help your case.

aMSa retweeted the results of some random local tourney from Washington yesterday.

https://twitter.com/PeakGamingNW/status/1097346685481627648/photo/1

The results speak for themselves.

 

[KmDx]

If you think you can really have the patience and skill then yes, stick to Mewtwo, also there´s Amsa a Yoshi player, that btw had a great genesis 6 run, which his character as of right now being twelveth on the tier list.

It mostly depends on whether you're ready to grind a lot of tech skill and patience to do it

 

[rené]

Tiers exist as a generalization of how good a character is when compared to the rest of the cast, not when compared from player to player. If a Ness main beats a Fox in bracket it doesn't mean that Ness is better than Fox, it means the Ness player is better than the Fox player. Play who you like, and learn your character to the point where the tiers don't matter.

IMO any character can be competitively viable until you hit a high level (top 100, maybe 200)

except for Kirby, who is god awful

 

[Wolfii]

Yes, it's possible to win with low tiers. Players like RRR, Sethlon, Lunchables, Bizarro Flame, heck, even Leffen's secondary Mewtwo are all examples of this.

 

[zuloon]

You're calling my argument ridiculous and stupid, but you don't say why. That doesn't help your case.

aMSa retweeted the results of some random local tourney from Washington yesterday.

https://twitter.com/PeakGamingNW/status/1097346685481627648/photo/1

The results speak for themselves.

You're just proving my point that it's possible to win with low tiers

 

[Wolfii]

You're only saying that because Hbox is so good

Who is the next best Jiggs player?

There you go

Michael is. He's ranked 41st, and would be ranked higher if he could attend more events. He places high at nearly every event he attends.

There's also 2saint (49th), Jerry (55th), 42nd (68), Prince Abu (77th) and Legend (85th)

 

[EmptyNess]

yes but it requires a great deal of technical optimization and innovation to sufficiently push a low tier's meta upwards

amsa dragged yoshi kicking and screaming up the tier list

 

[cdMyth]

I think a legitimate question you need to answer is, what are you trying to get out of Smash?

• If you're trying to be top 10 in the world, no way, won't happen.
• Top 100? Yes, that's doable. A lot of mid and low tier players compete at a ~top 100 level.
• Local PR / regional threat? Definitely possible.

You can play whichever character you want at the level you are at, and there will always be points you could improve on that are separate from matchup charts-- let's forget Taj and the oldschool meta and see some more modern examples.

1. Zoma has consistent top 8 placings in Japanese regionals (Battle Gateway) using solo Mewtwo, and finally broke out to win an 86 entrant regional over Shippu (top 10 in Japan) in 2017. He beat Cactuar with solo Mewtwo. However, he had to pick up Fox to make the transition from placing top 8 solo Mewtwo to 1st place Fox / Mewtwo.
2. At Phoenix Blue in 2018 (European major), Leffen took 1st place, going Mewtwo/Marth. He beat Trif and Overtriforce using Marth, despite using Mewtwo to beat Zorc and Professor Pro. You can see again that Leffen could place with Mewtwo, but needed to use Marth to win against the highest level opponent (he's sandbagging, but even Mewtwo is too much of a sandbag for him against the Spaniards).

What should you take from this:
Yes, it is entirely possible to play Mewtwo and play well! He has a lot of weaknesses, and you need to be content with the frustrations you'll have as a Mewtwo in* completely one-sided, unfair situations. You now have double the effort, to avoid those situations, as you will playing the matchup. But it can be done!

I play Doc, I don't say all that to be pessimistic, but because when you learn to accept the flaws of your character yet remain confident in their and your own ability, you will enjoy Melee a lot more.

 

[xTorn]

I used to be a marth main but it always felt like I mained him because he was top tier rather than actually enjoying his playstyle (which I do but not enough for me to want to main him). Ever sinceI stopped using Marth I've practiced as Mewto but I know it's always going to be an uphill battle. I just want to know if it's even worth it to practice a low tier character and not just go with someone like Marth or Shiek.

You could potentially win any tournament with a local, but realisticly only locals and regionals.

 

[GhostM]

Honestly I don’t think it’s entirely possible since low tiers are low tiers for a reason: they lack oos options, limited kill moves, and just overall less options in general. Many of the top players in majors or tournaments often play characters who are able to achieve the top 8, but usually ignore all of the low tiers since they are unviable. In locals it is possible to beat everyone with a low tier, but that increasingly becomes more difficult to pull off the higher the level you play at.

Coming from someone who has mained Dr. Mario and G&W in the past, you should honestly just play whoever you want to. As long as you play well and you know the matchups, you should be fine against the top tiers. It takes a lot of patience and knowledge to be able to defeat the top tiers the lower the tier list you go, but that shouldn’t stop you from playing the character you like to play as.

 

[VodkaHaze]

As a Kirby main, use whoever you want. It also depends on what you want out of the character. If you want to be good around friends, and do well at some local tournaments, you can do that. There are plenty of great players who main low tiers and do very respectable at tournaments. If you're aiming for #1, drop him, or at least use Marth as a counterpick. At that point of the game, tiers truly matter, for the same reason the best drivers care about which car they use.