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Is "game genre" a factor of Smash bros?

Dorayaki

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Not sure if this topic fits in this forum since most topics are about supporting a specific character. Hope that it fits in and would bring in some interesting discussion. So the topic begins with this sentence;

"No, not another ordinary swordman!!"

This is a typical opinion how some of the Smash fans don't like the next character being from the same cataegory of game franchise that already exists in Smash bros game lineup. So, what if Nintendo try to focus on the game genres that haven't been brought to Smash bros?

But I see there is some kind of dilemma.

First, Nintendo's game lineup do not cover up all known game genres. Some of them might have to be from 3rd parties. Nintendo would have to go out and search those games as they don't have these genres.
But then secondly, when it comes to 3rd parties, NIntendo still has to pick the popular ones that sell as DLCs. Which is why the "another ordinary swordmen" such as Cloud and DQ heroes are chosen despite similair genres already exists in Nintendo lineups.
The overall real obstacle is that fighting game genres still dominate the game industry, so it would be difficult to bring in a non-fighting game from 3rd parties that don't interest most game fans.

And we don't really discuss franchises with its spinoffs of a different game genre, such as Mario knows sports and parties.



Sports
It should be noted that Punch-Out!! is already about a professional sport subject-- boxing. While Boxing can be considered a sport, my idea is that it is too relevant with the idea of "fighting" in Smash bros, so what if we could get a sport that doesn't directly reflect on fights, but has the nature of competition and profession?

I honestly think Miis could had been portrayed as professional athletes based on Wii Sports, just in Smash bros they're portrayed as prfessional fighters.

However, many professional sport games are rarely based on fictional characters and original stories, more difficult to tell which ones are really classic and wellknown. Such as Electronic Arts works are based on realworld athletes, so it is unable to give a fictional character to enter Smash bros (unless Smash bros breaks into the 4th wall and brings in a realworld athlete like Danica in Sonic Racing).

The sport gameteam that relates to Nintendo most is Camelot, who is the maker of Mario Tennis and Golf. Unfortunately they don't have own strong sport characters to fit in Smash bros, as I don't think the "WE LOVE GOLF!" characters are strong enough to be Capcom reps at this point.

Konami actually has a very longterm sport game series "Power Pros", however it strongly relates to Japanese baseball culture, so it has very big problem to push it to Smash bros as western gamers can hardly relate to this franchise.

There is also an anime-based fictional soccer game series Inazuma Eleven maed by Level 5 in Japan and had huge popularity, but I'm not sure how Smash fans react if Endou Mamoru (Mark Evans in English version) makes it into Smash bros?


Music, Dance and Rhythm games
I do think this is kinda a good genre that brings its own special features different from other genres. Just not sure how Smash gamers react to any of the following choices.

We had Barbara of Band Brothers back in Smash 3 as an assist, but her absence until today shows that NIntendo don't really want to promote her as the face of NIntendo music games, so sadly her chance is not too big for now.

Konami has some great music/rhythm arcade game franchise, Dance Dance Revolution and Pop'n Music. It would be interesting to see Nyami/Mimi as a rep. However Konami hasn't got rhythm game releases on Nintendo conslose for years, so not sure if Nintendo think it's a good pick.

Just Dance of Ubisoft is a very popular franchise that also works with NIntendo consoles, and I think they have very unique art designs. A Just Dance Coach seems to be an interesting addition.

Taiko Master is another popular rhythm arcade game series under BANDAI Namco. also is a regular in all NIntendo consoles. I personally really like Don but not sure if he can appeal western gamers.

Mystery solving
Professor Layton of Level 5 and Ace Attorney of Capcom are both very popular choices by now.

Survival games
Not too many good picks, but Minecraft of Microsoft is definitely a hot cake on the table.

Crime dealing games
Several games like Empire of Sin and L.A. Noire are released on Switch, SEGA also have a longterm Yakuza. But this genre has many problems, including lacking iconic characters that appeals Smash games, not approriate for CERO et.

Party games
The cloests 3rd party choice is pretty much Raving Rabbids of Ubisoft.

Idol Simulation
This is pretty much a popular genre influenced by Japanese ACG culture and definitely not seen in Smash bros so far. The problem is, we don't really have an idol character that is also wellknown to common western gamers. Any of them could be obscure in the end.

Romance simulation / visual novels
(not a game cover, just showing several romance games new releases on Switch, the characters are playing Switch)

Well, this genre is the literal opposite of fighting game genre. It sure is a game genre influenced majorly by Japanese ACG culture again, but not fitting in Smash bros for many reasons, despite NIntendo Switch does have tons of them:
1) Hard to find an iconic character that appeals western gamers. And most of their games don't even have English translations in games.
2) Hard to find fighting refrences from the games
Ocassionally, some of the games would have love interests with great fighting potental (for example of 100 Sleeping Princes, not Switch tho, all are great wizards and swordmen... wait did I mention swordmen?) But point 1 is still a very big obstacle for them to be inserted in Smash bros.

Non-videogame properties
Which we're refering to past examples like R.O.B. (mascot) and Wifi Trainer of Wifi Fitness which do not originate from "games". While it sure adds diversity to games, it's not quite sure if they're all well acceptable to gamers.
In the current Smash 5, it seems Nikki of Swapnote is totally such kind of character. Not sure if she can receive greater popularity in the future (or just another Barbara)?
 
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King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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I’m biased since my two most wanted fit within the mystery visual novel/puzzle solving genre, but I do hope that genre does play somewhat of a role in the selection.

If they want to reach a wider audience, I say picking characters from varied genres would be smart. It would seem a bit gratuitous to include another JRPG character (sorry Lloyd) or mascot platformer (sorry Crash), seems like it would lead to a lot of “double dipping” within audiences.

Also I think horror is a genre you missed, closest thing we got is Castlevania, but that an adventure Metroidvania with a a gothic setting.
 

PapillonXtreme

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Actually, for visual novels, there are two characters that would most likely represent the genre (since you exclude both Layton and Wright): Monokuma from Danganronpa and Saber from the Fate series.

Monokuma is unlikely to get in, since it really doesn't have any of it's games released in a Nintendo consoles (at least Joker had Persona Q2), plus it isn't as well known in the West as it is in Japan, but Sakurai is a fan of Danganronpa, so who knows at this point.

Saber, on the other hand, might actually have a shot since the Fate series is really popular in Japan (it is also well-known in the West, but not as much as it was in Japan). Not to mention, she has two Switch games in her pocket (Extella and it's sequel Extella Link) unlike Monokuma, who had nothing. The only problem about her is that she's yet another swordfighter, but if The Hero from Dragon Quest were to tell us anything, it's that Nintendo and Sakurai really doesn't care about the complaints of having too many swordfighters.
 

Golden Icarus

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I actually never really realized the lack of mystery solving and visual novel representation. Suddenly I want Phoenix Wright a lot more than I already did.

And on the swordies comment - I’ve always found that complaint rather silly and hard to take seriously. There are so many unique ways to use a sword, and quite frankly, Smash still only scrapes the surface. There’s just as many unique ways to swing a sword as there are to punch and kick, and well, a lot of Smash characters punch and kick.

However, I do understand the concern that there are too many characters representing anime styled RPGs. Especially for the sake of the fighter pass, they should probably finish it off with a little bit more variety. From what I’ve seen, they already got the RPG fanatics pretty damn satisfied with Joker and Hero. While I would love Lloyd or Isaac (my god do I want Isaac), branching out would probably be a good idea.
 

Dorayaki

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Also I think horror is a genre you missed, closest thing we got is Castlevania, but that an adventure Metroidvania with a a gothic setting.
Yeah, I thought about that. But most notable games seem to be horror themed action adventures rather than horror, as you say Castlevania or Luigi's Mansion. Could Resident Evil count?

Actually, for visual novels, there are two characters that would most likely represent the genre (since you exclude both Layton and Wright): Monokuma from Danganronpa and Saber from the Fate series.
To my knowledge, the original team of Danganronpa has disbanded, and there is no further news for this series to continue. So I think it's unlikely.

Yes, the very first Fate game was a visual novel, just as the series goes stronger, new games start to stick to RPGs and fightings in the end. Fate series is hot, can be a surprising DLC choice and I think western gamers would welcome Saber.

And on the swordies comment - I’ve always found that complaint rather silly and hard to take seriously. There are so many unique ways to use a sword, and quite frankly, Smash still only scrapes the surface. There’s just as many unique ways to swing a sword as there are to punch and kick, and well, a lot of Smash characters punch and kick.
Yeah, the swordmen statement is kinda mixed with joke and ******** message. I see sword users from different iconic franchises still vary alot. Either Saber of Fate or the most requested Sora of KH both have unique blade weapon and fight moves. Persona series also make a great difference from traditional RPGs so it is acceptable as well.
 
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King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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Yeah, I thought about that. But most notable games seem to be horror themed action adventures rather than horror, as you say Castlevania or Luigi's Mansion. Could Resident Evil count?

To my knowledge, the original team of Danganronpa has disbanded, and there is no further news for this series to continue. So I think it's unlikely.

Yes, the very first Fate game was a visual novel, just as the series goes stronger, new games start to stick to RPGs and fightings in the end. Fate series is hot, can be a surprising DLC choice and I think western gamers would welcome Saber.

Yeah, the swordmen statement is kinda mixed with joke and ******** message. I see sword users from different iconic franchises still vary alot. Either Saber of Fate or the most requested Sora of KH both have unique blade weapon and fight moves. Persona series also make a great difference from traditional RPGs so it is acceptable as well.
Yeah mainly Resident Evil is the series that I was thinking of, 4-6 where kind of action games but the originals defined the horror gaming genre.

I’m not too knowledgeable about the series, but wasn’t the original Fate an eroge visual novel? Sure the series has evolved to be more of an RPG now with grand order, but then we’re back to square one with the inclusion of another RPG series.
 

TCT~Phantom

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No it does not. What is a factor is making the character fun in Smash or making fans happy or selling games.
 

PapillonXtreme

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I’m not too knowledgeable about the series, but wasn’t the original Fate an eroge visual novel? Sure the series has evolved to be more of an RPG now with grand order, but then we’re back to square one with the inclusion of another RPG series.
Not really. Fate started out as a Visual Novel, a genre not yet represented in Smash, and Saber first appeared in that game. Sure, it's an eroge visual novel, but Nintendo has been including M-rated characters in Smash, so that really doesn't matter. Besides, the eroge part has been dropped completely after the first game and other Fate games (especially the re-release of Fate/stay night) no longer has them.
 

Dorayaki

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Not really. Fate started out as a Visual Novel, a genre not yet represented in Smash, and Saber first appeared in that game. Sure, it's an eroge visual novel, but Nintendo has been including M-rated characters in Smash, so that really doesn't matter. Besides, the eroge part has been dropped completely after the first game and other Fate games (especially the re-release of Fate/stay night) no longer has them.
Well the proportion of RPGs is obviously dominant now, so probably to western gamers they'd just consider it a RPG franchise as RPGs are more available currently. The original Fate game has a 15+ version "Réalta Nua" but never had Nintendo releases nor English version.
Like said in the post, Otomate is probably the best known Japanese (romance) visual novel maker on Switch at this point, yet also the least possible choice for Smash fighter.

I kinda wonder if strategy game is a genre that can provide wanted and iconic characters?

No it does not. What is a factor is making the character fun in Smash or making fans happy or selling games.
In terms of selling, yes, as mentioned fighting game characters are way more popular.

But for "fun", not sure if it's impossible to create fun moves for characters that don't come from fighting games, if some of the NIntendo fighters had proven it wrong.
 
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Dorayaki

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https://smashboards.com/threads/new-style-boutique-style-savvy-for-smash-switch.447489/
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/3ds/ajbj/pc/index.html


Okay, cannot believe I almost left out this one, since shop simulation and fashion genre is supposed to be a different sub-genre of simulation game. (Considering Animal Crossing covers town and farm simulation).

However, before talking about its possibilty for Smash fighter slot, I'm kinda suspicious and disppointed since NIntendo don't really seem to like to promote this franchise in any form (sticker, spirit, icon etc) in Smash bros series so far. At least it defnitely deservs a spirit.


https://smashboards.com/threads/rhythm-heaven-general-lets-band-together.458783/


I also see that Rhythm Heaven is a different type of rhythm game (tho not literally associated with music) But to me, it's similairty with Warioware would be a potential issue. I assume only after it comes up with an extermly populer and iconic character possbily in the same tier with Isabelle could it finally be granted a fighter slot. For now having spirits seems to be what it can be given at most.

https://smashboards.com/threads/puzzle-league-panel-de-pon-general-thread.324269/


Panel de Pon is also the only Nintendo in-house tile-matching game franchise referred in Smash bros series so far. It would be really nice if Nintendo finally wants to give it a try and introduce a fairy-type fighter, and includes some tile matching refrences in both stage and final smash.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It's not. Not in the same way people think it is. A game genre can absolutely be looked at to find interesting newcomers, but it's not really a major factor in saying no either.

Also, @Doryaki: Please link the images or put them in spoiler tags. There's way too much and it'll heavily make a lot of computers lag as well as affect mobile users. I can barely read the first post because there's more displayed images in there than almost any single Support thread alone.
 

Dorayaki

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Please link the images or put them in spoiler tags. There's way too much and it'll heavily make a lot of computers lag as well as affect mobile users. I can barely read the first post because there's more displayed images in there than almost any single Support thread alone
It's not. Not in the same way people think it is. A game genre can absolutely be looked at to find interesting newcomers, but it's not really a major factor in saying no either.
.
Done.
Yeah, this isn't a coded rule that NIntendo seriously took into consideration. Like said, in most times they judge the franchise's own popularity and significance than whether it's a new genre. I mean, it's dumb to reject Sora just because he fights and uses a blade.
 
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Dorayaki

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Probably meaningless bump. Just to say aside from Byleth's controversy, the fact all the DLC fighters so far are from fighting games (some are RPGs and platformers tho) is kinda underwhelming. It's not only kinda boring to not have new genres but also seems not very creative for the developers to bring in fighting references.

I cannot disagree that fighting-related games are considered more iconic in this industry. just still wold hope that Smash bros can really go into a further step of video game crossover.
 

fogbadge

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Probably meaningless bump. Just to say aside from Byleth's controversy, the fact all the DLC fighters so far are from fighting games (some are RPGs and platformers tho) is kinda underwhelming. It's not only kinda boring to not have new genres but also seems not very creative for the developers to bring in fighting references.

I cannot disagree that fighting-related games are considered more iconic in this industry. just still wold hope that Smash bros can really go into a further step of video game crossover.
err one of the dlc fighters are from a fighting game, two are from rpgs, two are from platformers and the other is from a turn based strategy
 

Dorayaki

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err one of the dlc fighters are from a fighting game, two are from rpgs, two are from platformers and the other is from a turn based strategy
To justify, I already highlighted that I'm not talking about fighting games, but characters that already know fighting.

Most of the cases in the post would be like Isabelle and Wifi Trainer who aren't from fighting games and also don't do fight in their daily life.
 
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fogbadge

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To justify, I already highlighted that I'm not talking about fighting games, but characters that already know fighting.

Most of the cases in the post would be like Isabelle and Wifi Trainer who aren't from fighting games and also don't do fight in their daily life.
right well fighting game means something specific so you can see why people would misunderstand that
 

Perkilator

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No it does not. What is a factor is making the character fun in Smash or making fans happy or selling games.
What he said, BUUT introducing new genres to Smash can still be done right by staying faithful to the source material.

Also, I noticed a noticeable lack of any survival horror representation (namely Resident Evil).
 

jamesster445

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If you're asking why It's probably not a factor? We have how many turn based RPG characters yet we have no Horror, FPS, Rhythym or mobile reps.

If you're asking why I wish it was? I feel like some of the best characters added were either genre reps and/or GOAT characters. But that's my opinion.
 

Dorayaki

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i dont think any character has ever been added on behalf of a genre
Cannot say you're wrong, like I said, most iconic gaming characters are fighting types, not that they represent every genre.

Just suppose that a game of an unused genre makes it to be part of Smash bros universes, that can still be a remarkable thing.
 

fogbadge

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Cannot say you're wrong, like I said, most iconic gaming characters are fighting types, not that they represent every genre.

Just suppose that a game of an unused genre makes it to be part of Smash bros universes, that can still be a remarkable thing.
well im still hoping for professor layton & phoenix wright and someone from rhythm paradise, thatd be two new genres
 

Buzzwole

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If you look at Smash as a celebration of gaming, then it definitely should be a factor. Puzzle games, Visual novels, and Shooters are really under-represented in Smash.
 

fogbadge

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If you look at Smash as a celebration of gaming, then it definitely should be a factor. Puzzle games, Visual novels, and Shooters are really under-represented in Smash.
first two dont even have any characters
 
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