Is Falco actually bad in this game or is he just being bashed too much?

[StarLight42]

I've been seeing Mew2King just state that Falco and Fox in this game are atrocious.


Honestly, that's a bit disappointing to me, Falco and Fox need to step down from top tier, but it would be very depressing to see them bottom tier. Falco and Fox wern't even THAT bad in Brawl, mid-high tier. So, I don't know why they are getting so much hate in this game, especially since Wolf is gone and the Star Fox representation is on it's last leg. ;(

So if anybody has the game, is Falco actually bad? Or is Mew2King just having a hissy fit because they didn't re-clone Falco?

 

[TeaTwoTime]

M2K is probably just expressing his knee-jerk reaction to Falco not playing the way he wished he did. I've seen players do really well with both Fox and Falco on stream and make them look really good in the process - and I realise that "on stream" isn't exactly definitive, but I do feel that it's being blown out of proportion (though I don't know of the degree to which this is true just yet).

 

[Legend Vermillion]

It´s too soon to make this kind of predictions although I see potential in SSB4 Falco. The main problem with the people who are saying he is bad is the fact that you can´t no longer play him like you did in Melee or Brawl, you need to adapt to the new Falco. Now, he has a full new playstyle but, come one! Look at all the tools he got!

 

[Katakiri]

I thought Falco was garbage at first as well but then I started playing as him more and my opinion slowly changed.

Falco is a character that excels at the close-range combat and forces close-range combat with his lasers and reflectors. You can't play Sm4sh Falco like Brawl Falco. This Falco uses Jabs, Tilts, Throws, Dash Attacks, and his almost lag-less F-Smash to get the job done. I'd compare him to Little Mac in a way, he wants to be in the opponent's face and his ground options are very solid.

I can tell that good Sm4sh Falco is going to stay grounded unless he's following-up and control the space around him; again, he negates the projectile game of most characters so melee combat is the focus. I say "stay grounded" because Falco's aerial options are about as viable as Little Mac's; yes, Falco's B-Air is now Wolf's but Falco has NO air speed compared to Wolf to make it any good outside of KOing off of throws.

I see a lot of potential in Falco. Also his blue costume his next level. Like, neon blue boots tho? With purple pants and a blue jacket? I might pick him up for his style alone.

 

[Legend Vermillion]

I say "stay grounded" because Falco's aerial options are about as viable as Little Mac's; yes, Falco's B-Air is now Wolf's but Falco has NO air speed compared to Wolf to make it any good outside of KOing off of throws..

I think the new BAir can be used to spacing and also, and more important, to gimp out of the stage in a very nice way.

 

[Morbi]

I am a huge Mew2King fan, but it is far too early to insinuate that a character is not going to be viable. That would imply that our meta-game is already well-established. The game is not even out for most people yet, there is no meta-game at the current time. Well, I suppose we have an early game meta-game. So there you go, Falco is trash in the pre-release meta-game. We shall see if that sentiment holds true once we actually have our standard rule-set and whatnot. Or once Falco players start using him at a high-level. That might be a good idea.

This game is not Melee or BRAWL (@ Yoshi Kirishima ) and we have our preconceived notions regarding what a character should and should not be; however, these characters are different. Their great tools might not necessarily be what they once were. It is as simple as that.

If all else fails, d-air. And d-air again. After that, try another d-air.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

This game is not Melee or Smash

So this game is Brawl? jkjk haha

I agree, it's way too early to tell. Remember SSBB's early tier lists? G&W was #4 and Rob was #6, top tier. Now they are #16 and #18, middle tier. Sonic was bottom tier at #33 but now he is lower middle tier at #22. Turned out he wasn't complete **** after all.

The same can happen with Falco!

 

[Renji64]

Falco seems like he lost all his tools that made him good.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Falco seems like he lost all his tools that made him good.

Then again, he was top tier in both Brawl and Melee, so if he's near the bottom I don't mind. The balance looks pretty good, anyways, I'm staying hopeful that at least ~90% of the roster will be viable.

 

[Articablack]

I certainly hope they didn't nerf him. When they nerfed the crap out of Link, Falco became my Main in Brawl, and I didn't realize how much I liked him. So here's to hoping they didn't nerf him too badly.

 

[FlashingFire]

Well, some of Falco's moves have most definitely been nerfed. Here's a summary of what I've seen so far. I'll be comparing him to Brawl Falco as opposed to Melee Falco for the purpose of consistency and clarity here.

- Lasers no longer have their endlag cancelled upon landing.
- Dair has considerably more startup.
- Dthrow no longer chaingrabs (even if its trajectory was unaltered, the new Smash 4 grab mechanics would have seen to that).
- Bair has lost its lingering weak hitbox.
- DACUSing is no longer a thing.

However, consider the following improvements:

- Bair's knockback has been increased. Same with the final hit of Fair.
- Dthrow looks like it combos into Dash Attack on many characters
- Uthrow can combo into Uair, and probably other aerials as well.
- Uair seems to be improved overall. It has a better hitbox and combo potential.
- Dtilt seems to combo better.

Again, all of this is based on watching Falco and not actually playing him, so feel free to take this with a grain of salt, but it seems to me like while Falco is worse overall than previous iterations of the character, he is no means as awful as some people say he is.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Falco kicks lil mac's booty in boxing tbh. Dude is gonna be pressuring opponents like crazy. Dash attack, wheeww

 

[meleebrawler]

Falco seems like he lost all his tools that made him good.

Instead of crying over spilt milk, how about finding or buying new tools?

 

[Raijinken]

Well, some of Falco's moves have most definitely been nerfed. Here's a summary of what I've seen so far. I'll be comparing him to Brawl Falco as opposed to Melee Falco for the purpose of consistency and clarity here.

- Lasers no longer have their endlag cancelled upon landing.
- Dair has considerably more startup.
- Dthrow no longer chaingrabs (even if its trajectory was unaltered, the new Smash 4 grab mechanics would have seen to that).
- Bair has lost its lingering weak hitbox.
- DACUSing is no longer a thing.

However, consider the following improvements:

- Bair's knockback has been increased. Same with the final hit of Fair.
- Dthrow looks like it combos into Dash Attack on many characters
- Uthrow can combo into Uair, and probably other aerials as well.
- Uair seems to be improved overall. It has a better hitbox and combo potential.
- Dtilt seems to combo better.

Again, all of this is based on watching Falco and not actually playing him, so feel free to take this with a grain of salt, but it seems to me like while Falco is worse overall than previous iterations of the character, he is no means as awful as some people say he is.

Don't forget about SideB not sending you into helpless.

 

[StarLight42]

Then again, he was top tier in both Brawl and Melee, so if he's near the bottom I don't mind. The balance looks pretty good, anyways, I'm staying hopeful that at least ~90% of the roster will be viable.

He definitely wasn't top tier in Brawl, more mid-tier.

I certainly hope they didn't nerf him. When they nerfed the crap out of Link, Falco became my Main in Brawl, and I didn't realize how much I liked him. So here's to hoping they didn't nerf him too badly.

Funny thing is, Falco seems to have been nerfed for this game, but judging by the demo, Link seems incredibly buffed. You might just want to go back to your old main for Smash 4.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

He definitely wasn't top tier in Brawl, more mid-tier.



Funny thing is, Falco seems to have been nerfed for this game, but judging by the demo, Link seems incredibly buffed. You might just want to go back to your old main for Smash 4.

What? Falco is a top character in Brawl. Maybe bottom of "top" but he is one of the best, and has been consistently throughout Brawl. Or maybe you just don't agree with the tier lists?

 

[StarLight42]

What? Falco is a top character in Brawl. Maybe bottom of "top" but he is one of the best, and has been consistently throughout Brawl. Or maybe you just don't agree with the tier lists?

Oh excuse me. I was thinking of Fox, who is middle tier in Brawl.

Yeah, he's HIGH tier, but definitely not top tier.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Oh excuse me. I was thinking of Fox, who is middle tier in Brawl.

Yeah, he's HIGH tier, but definitely not top tier.

You do know his tier placement ranges from as high as #5 to #7 out of ~38, depending on if you're looking at US/EU/JP tier lists right? As well as Falcos being able to consistently place at the top 5 of many tournaments. He's been excellent in both Melee and Brawl so I wouldn't mind if he's even dead last in SSB4. He's not MK tier but he's still a top character both in tier lists and tournament placings. High to me would be like #8-15.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Falco will be fine. He boxes better than any character in the game and has a very, very potent aerial game.

Recovery is buffed. He'll be a monster.

 

[Acton]

This

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JurOrl2liFg&list=UUbr6TI0Mujw2iFAQE4R8yrQ

Enough said.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

How about his anti-ground game? Despite being a bird, he wasn't as maneuverable in the air as Fox but I recall him having a easy time being able to launch aerial assaults on his grounded opponents, allowing him to be in control of the situation. His Dair and Nair were really good tools for that and I remember that you were able to chain his Nair into his up tilt.
The guy was very capable of swooping in, then back to air then back onto his opponent. You know, like a falcon

 

[Trickerhere]

Mew2king said Sheik was bad on eventhubs for Smash 3DS impressions and look where Sheik is now. http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...eem-be-top-tiers-super-smash-bros-3ds-moment/

 

[Takehiko]

I think the best thing to say is Falco is considered bad by M2K then the best thingt o do is grind with falco an place high/ win tourney's then people will hop on the band wagon

 

[Sir Tundra]

I feel like people bash falco in this game mostly because he lost his SHDL and dair has an even more longer startup. However Falco has gotten new tools such as better aerials,a better recovery, and better kill power, back air can be used for spacing, and some pressure. If anything fox has it worse since his shine is completely useless, up smash and up aerial's power has been greatly nerfed, and the only thing he has is his up tilt combo. Fox literally didn't even receive much besides the recovery boost. At least falco can up throw up air and his most of his aerials are almost lagless(not counting dair). I think when the meta develops people will be dropping fox and favoring falco more for his crazy combo potential. Falco seems like he can pressure/combo what a lot of people consider to be the best character's in the game at the moment(Boozer, DHD, D3, Rosalina, and Ness to name a few). I think he'll be even better once the wii u version comes out as he'll do some crazy combos such as down throw to short hop UP air to up tilt juggles. Falco will definitely be a threat again once his potential has reached.

 

[Berserker.]

His nerfs are overblown. He's still a solid character and he's definitely far from being ****ty

 

[Tino]

Falco is still a pretty solid fighter from the gameplay videos I've seen of him. I wouldn't be surprised if Mew2King was bashing him just because he isn't the same Falco from Melee.

But hey, at least he's still has his bread and butter with him.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Honestly people need to stop taking M2K's word as gold. He has little experience with the game just as all of us, and just because he's a good player doesn't mean he has insane miraculous tournament viable foresight. It's going to take time. I'm looking at Falco seriously as my 2ndary so I'm watching his growth carefully, but I don't at all feel that he is weak when playing him.

The game is quite well balanced (seemingly), take this opportunity to really drive people's first impressions in the opening weeks here. Play who you like and show people that this could be the most balanced cast yet.

 

[Sir Tundra]

Honestly people need to stop taking M2K's word as gold. He has little experience with the game just as all of us, and just because he's a good player doesn't mean he has insane miraculous tournament viable foresight. It's going to take time. I'm looking at Falco seriously as my 2ndary so I'm watching his growth carefully, but I don't at all feel that he is weak when playing him.

The game is quite well balanced (seemingly), take this opportunity to really drive people's first impressions in the opening weeks here. Play who you like and show people that this could be the most balanced cast yet.

Honestly I couldn't have said it better myself. People really do have to stop taking every word M2K says like it's a fact. The guy only played the game for like 10 hours and said himself that he knows nothing about the game. He even changed his mind about DHD being a top tier and now thinks of him being high tier further proving that opinions change over time and that you shouldn't take people's word when it comes to first impression's. If anything Falco might be a high(or even top) tier but who know's.

I also agree on your statement when you said that this could be the balanced cast yet which is why making a tier list for this game could take longer than the past 3 games. And if Custom moves were to be allowed in tournament's then it would only further prove it.

 

[Ravio_Yo]

He's not exactly like he was in Melee and is therefore awful.

 

[Sir Tundra]

He's not exactly like he was in Melee and is therefore awful.

I'm pretty sure I remember Falco being top tier in Brawl and he was way different then he was in Melee.

 

[McX]

Falco will still be okay. He still has plenty of combo potential and even more combo potential in this game.
It's just no more chain grabs or short hop lasers. But it's not like we can't still use follow ups from dthrow or use lasers to camp. They're all still there. It's just that the manoeuvrability of his moves has changed. He feels like a much more solid character compared to previous games. His melee attacks are powerful and fast.

 

[Mettie7]

He's still fine, he just plays differently. Just bc he doesn't have sh lasers doesn't mean he's bottom. I think he'll be a more up close character this time around, but still good

 

[hiramsthoughts]

Falco is not bad by any means. People who say that are people that try to play him as they did on Brawl, thithe thing is this Falco is a new character, we need to relearn how to play it.

 

[chipndip]

M2K's been saying A LOT of things about the game. Doesn't change the fact that it hasn't even been released in the states yet, or the fact that people haven't really been able to pick the characters apart and push their play-styles on them to find the best stuff. I understand M2K's a strong player, but he's ONE player. Just look for Falco tech and stuff and decide for yourself how his stuff comes together and if he can be a good pick based on that.

That's what I've been doing for Yoshi, anyway, as a Yoshi fan (putting Yoshi on a Yoshi bike since I bought MK8. Can't get enough.). Egg lay buffs got me thinking of ways to sub out Meteor Smashing with Egg Lay KOs. Just look at what Falco can do and see if it comes together in a meaningful way. That's a great way to have an idea on what you can expect from the character.

 

[IblisTriggersPuppet]

I guess we'll have to wait and see until it comes out in the states

 

[GenericSonicFanName]

I'll make the best out of him. Always liked him and his character design. Sad I can't laser spam tho.

 

[Fex13]

as someone who mained falco in brawl... he is absolutely terrible. everything he stood for got wrecked (dair, grab game, laser). imo he is really painful to play.

 

[Sir Tundra]

as someone who mained falco in brawl... he is absolutely terrible. everything he stood for got wrecked (dair, grab game, laser). imo he is really painful to play.

Dair can still be good if you time it right. No one can chain grab in this game so its not that bad plus if you main falco in both melee and brawl then you'd know how bad chain grabbing was for him due to his high falling speed and low airspeed. Hell chain grabbing alone was the reason why Falco had a disadvantage against Pikachu and Ice Climbers in brawl not to mention in melee facing marth FD is a winnable matchup. You can fire lasers all you want but your still gotta get throwed like a ragdoll by marth. The laser's though.. Yeah I'll agree with you on that one.

I wouldn't say he's completely terrible just because he lost a few tools.
I mean look at fox. He's received the same nerfs as falco yet people consider him to be a really good character.
Matter of Fact Fox really didn't gained anything out of this besides a new combo game that require hard reads.
Falco's not bad by any means. He's just different and people like you have to learn to adapt to it instead of jumping to conclusions so quickly. Seriously it pisses me off how I have to see people these days saying this characters OP/thrash after seeing a person do good/bad with them not to mention putting them in tiers when the game hasn't even released yet!!! This game is one of the most balanced game in the series, No character is broken in this game(yet), Custom moves could put in some interesting matchups, and every Character has their ups and down's. Ike is really the only exception to this though as you can tell just by seeing him that he sucks since he's the exact same character from brawl but worse. And Ike was never good in brawl to begin with. At least Falco has some brand new tools to back it up.

 

[meleebrawler]

Dair can still be good if you time it right. No one can chain grab in this game so its not that bad plus if you main falco in both melee and brawl then you'd know how bad chain grabbing was for him due to his high falling speed and low airspeed. Hell chain grabbing alone was the reason why Falco had a disadvantage against Pikachu and Ice Climbers in brawl not to mention in melee facing marth FD is a winnable matchup. You can fire lasers all you want but your still gotta get throwed like a ragdoll by marth. The laser's though.. Yeah I'll agree with you on that one.

I wouldn't say he's completely terrible just because he lost a few tools.
I mean look at fox. He's received the same nerfs as falco yet people consider him to be a really good character.
Matter of Fact Fox really didn't gained anything out of this besides a new combo game that require hard reads.
Falco's not bad by any means. He's just different and people like you have to learn to adapt to it instead of jumping to conclusions so quickly. Seriously it pisses me off how I have to see people these days saying this characters OP/thrash after seeing a person do good/bad with them not to mention putting them in tiers when the game hasn't even released yet!!! This game is one of the most balanced game in the series, No character is broken in this game(yet), Custom moves could put in some interesting matchups, and every Character has their ups and down's. Ike is really the only exception to this though as you can tell just by seeing him that he sucks since he's the exact same character from brawl but worse. And Ike was never good in brawl to begin with. At least Falco has some brand new tools to back it up.

"Says people judging characters before game comes out is bad."

"Calls Ike trash"

 

[Sir Tundra]

"Says people judging characters before game comes out is bad."

"Calls Ike trash"

Like I said he's only character I'd accept since you can literally tell he's no different than brawl. The rest of the returning cast have completely changed from their brawl iteration while Ike stayed the same. Now sure this might be a good thing but then again he was terrible in brawl so you can literally tell he's bad. I know what I stated that no character should be judged in this game but I also said that Ike was the only exception.

Edit: Character's like megaman shouldn't be judged because no one know's exactly how he play's

Falco shouldn't be judged because he now has a change of playstyles and has gotten some pretty good buffs like now being able to up throw up air, that godlike bair, and down throw can lead into some good combos

However everyone who's played smash competitively know's how Ike is in Brawl and He's literally the exact same character. Infact his kill power has gotten even worse. Sure side b not putting you into recovery is possible the only good thing for him. But that doesn't even matter when that move never gets far in the first place.