Is cloud faster than young link?

[Artmastercorey]

Is he faster than young link? It feels like you cant punish him even if he wiffs an attack and misses. It feels like his attacks are faster, more powerful, and have more range. Even feels like his run speed is faster. I Feel perhaps playing younglink is too slow after constantly losing against cloud

 

[GhostM]

Cloud has more reach and killpower, but Young Link has better frame data and more moves that are safe on shield such as nair, fair, bair, and dtilt. Although Young Link has better frame data, he lacks range and overall kill power that Cloud has.

Young Link relies on his projectiles and the influence of how the opponent maneuvers around the projectiles to create openings for yourself. Most of his projectiles can easily combo into more projectiles or various different moves to create kill setups to reliably take away someone's stock. Young Link is still a fast character if you utilize his entire kit, since he has great ways to punish up close and to keep opponents at bay with his projectiles. I will say that you definitely need to work a little more in order to kill since Young Link tends to struggle when finding openings to end someone's stock. Cloud has more range and reliable kill power in his smash attacks and limit when used at kill percents.

If you're playing online then you will definitely feel slower than offline due to the input lag. It's a lot more difficult to punish whiff attacks since you can't rely on natural reaction time to shield or parry. In order to reliably react, you have to guess much earlier than before, not to forget that it is also dependent on your opponent's connection. The more laggier the opponent is, the more time you have to guess earlier to avoid an attack or parry. If you're playing offline and you still feel slow, then I would suggest to utilize training mode to practice your inputs. It sounds a little silly, but working on your inputs will help sharpen your movements and sharpen your muscle memory so you don't mess up or feel off when moving around.

 

[Artmastercorey]

Cloud has more reach and killpower, but Young Link has better frame data and more moves that are safe on shield such as nair, fair, bair, and dtilt. Although Young Link has better frame data, he lacks range and overall kill power that Cloud has.

Young Link relies on his projectiles and the influence of how the opponent maneuvers around the projectiles to create openings for yourself. Most of his projectiles can easily combo into more projectiles or various different moves to create kill setups to reliably take away someone's stock. Young Link is still a fast character if you utilize his entire kit, since he has great ways to punish up close and to keep opponents at bay with his projectiles. I will say that you definitely need to work a little more in order to kill since Young Link tends to struggle when finding openings to end someone's stock. Cloud has more range and reliable kill power in his smash attacks and limit when used at kill percents.

If you're playing online then you will definitely feel slower than offline due to the input lag. It's a lot more difficult to punish whiff attacks since you can't rely on natural reaction time to shield or parry. In order to reliably react, you have to guess much earlier than before, not to forget that it is also dependent on your opponent's connection. The more laggier the opponent is, the more time you have to guess earlier to avoid an attack or parry. If you're playing offline and you still feel slow, then I would suggest to utilize training mode to practice your inputs. It sounds a little silly, but working on your inputs will help sharpen your movements and sharpen your muscle memory so you don't mess up or feel off when moving around.

Thanks for your reply Ghost that makes alot of sense. Maybe its just the online. I went to check out the frame data though and it appears cloud is just as fast of not faster on most attacks than young

https://ultimateframedata.com/

Or am I misreading it?

 

[GhostM]

Thanks for your reply Ghost that makes alot of sense. Maybe its just the online. I went to check out the frame data though and it appears cloud is just as fast of not faster on most attacks than young

https://ultimateframedata.com/

Or am I misreading it?

In terms of movement and air speed, Cloud especially when he fully charges limit has better mobility, and overall has better movement and air speed when compared to Link, but in this case we are talking about fast as in their ability to effectively put out active hitboxes to keep opponents at bay, and the ability to pressure an opponent when shielding.

Even though some moves of Cloud's have a faster start up, Young Link does better in terms of shield pressure, and can initiate more moves due to many of his attacks being safe on shield. Young Link's bombs can be utilized with z drops to put out more hitboxes to rack up percentage faster. One unique thing with bombs is that you can juggle bombs by z-dropping and immediately following up with an aerial attack to recatch the bomb, essentially allowing you to pressure while still holding the bombs with aerials, and dropping bombs does not explode them unless you hard toss them which is useful for edge guarding and covering areas like platforms. Bombs can also be used out of shield by buffering jump then immediately Z dropping which comes out around frame 4-5, faster than nair out of shield. Bombs offer unique mixups that further helps Young Link to pressure opponents especially on shield. Not to forget that utilizing his kit effectively further pressures by putting out projectile hitboxes and allows you to influence your opponents maneuvering, creating openings for yourself.

Essentially Young Link has very good options that helps him excel at close ranges and at a distance because of his projectiles, and many of his moves being safe on shield. If you check ultimateframedata, you can see that various moves of Young Link have low negative numbers regarding "On Shield". Cloud has more moves that come out faster, but has less reliable moves to pressure shield, but better range and overall kill power.

 

[Artmastercorey]

In terms of movement and air speed, Cloud especially when he fully charges limit has better mobility, and overall has better movement and air speed when compared to Link, but in this case we are talking about fast as in their ability to effectively put out active hitboxes to keep opponents at bay, and the ability to pressure an opponent when shielding.

Even though some moves of Cloud's have a faster start up, Young Link does better in terms of shield pressure, and can initiate more moves due to many of his attacks being safe on shield. Young Link's bombs can be utilized with z drops to put out more hitboxes to rack up percentage faster. One unique thing with bombs is that you can juggle bombs by z-dropping and immediately following up with an aerial attack to recatch the bomb, essentially allowing you to pressure while still holding the bombs with aerials, and dropping bombs does not explode them unless you hard toss them which is useful for edge guarding and covering areas like platforms. Bombs can also be used out of shield by buffering jump then immediately Z dropping which comes out around frame 4-5, faster than nair out of shield. Bombs offer unique mixups that further helps Young Link to pressure opponents especially on shield. Not to forget that utilizing his kit effectively further pressures by putting out projectile hitboxes and allows you to influence your opponents maneuvering, creating openings for yourself.

Essentially Young Link has very good options that helps him excel at close ranges and at a distance because of his projectiles, and many of his moves being safe on shield. If you check ultimateframedata, you can see that various moves of Young Link have low negative numbers regarding "On Shield". Cloud has more moves that come out faster, but has less reliable moves to pressure shield, but better range and overall kill power.

'

Oh your right. I never really quit understood what those on shield numbers meant. I always hear the term "safe on shield moves" but would still get grab using those supposide safe moves like youngs neutral air for example.

So looking at the ultimateframedata.com , lets just look at youngs jab 1 for example. It says its -10 on shield. So does that mean after the attack is over the opponent is in -10 frames of lag? Is this basically what shield stun is? Or does it mean Im in -10 frames of additional lag after hitting their shield before I can act again?

PS: amaazing about young using bomb drop at frame 4 out of shield. That gives him a much quicker out of shield option than his frame 7 nair. Had no idea.

 

[GhostM]

'

Oh your right. I never really quit understood what those on shield numbers meant. I always hear the term "safe on shield moves" but would still get grab using those supposide safe moves like youngs neutral air for example.

So looking at the ultimateframedata.com , lets just look at youngs jab 1 for example. It says its -10 on shield. So does that mean after the attack is over the opponent is in -10 frames of lag? Is this basically what shield stun is? Or does it mean Im in -10 frames of additional lag after hitting their shield before I can act again?

PS: amaazing about young using bomb drop at frame 4 out of shield. That gives him a much quicker out of shield option than his frame 7 nair. Had no idea.

No, it basically means how fast the opponent can act when said move hits shield. Young Link’s Jab 1 is -10 on shield, meaning that the shielding opponent can act 10 frames faster than Young Link after he successfully hits Jab 1.

Shield lag is the amount of time that both characters freeze after a move successfully hits, so both Young Link and the shielding opponent freeze for 7 frames, and then the animation of Jab 1 continues, except the person holding shield suffers from shield stun right after. Shield stun is where the defender cannot act or perform anything, so opponents are stuck in shield for 3 frames when Jab 1 hits.

I will say that the values vary based on how you space your attacks, and if you hit at the very last active frame of an attack. There are many different factors to determine how safe your attack is on shield, so various distances when hitting your attacks on a shielding opponent and how late the attack hits can change how safe it is.