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Invinci-Bombing Discussion with video+Z-air RARing.

CaliburChamp

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Invinci-Bombing video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e71yBIVaq1w&feature=channel_page

Last night I figured I try some new tricks in training mode with Toon Link, and I came up with 2 really useful strategies.

Invincibombing- Short hop and airdodge at the opponent, but don't drop the bomb directly on him, instead drop the bomb near you both, so the bomb will explode and you'll hit your opponent while you will be safe from the bomb's explosion, because of the invincibilty frames from your air dodge. Press L or R to airdodge and PRESS "A" IMMEDIATELY, IF YOU DON'T DO THIS QUICK ENOUGH YOU WILL Z-AIR INSTEAD. The uses are that Toon Link will approach the opponent safely, it is good for approaches, good for defense, out of shield, and a good combo starter. It also helps that Toon Link has good aerial momentum. I tested it out in the training room, and if you time it perfectly you'll be able to pull of some dropped bombs combos and it will actually count as a consecutive hit in training mode. Here is some of the things it combos into.
Works on low %. 0-75% character dependant. Otherwise the bomb will knock them too far away to combo.

Short hop, airdodge + bombdrop (AKA Invincibomb). F-tilt.

Short hop, airdodge + bombdrop. Hyphen Up-smash.

Short hop, airdodge + bombdrop. Dash attack, N-air.

Short hop, airdodge + bombdrop. Uptilt, B-air, N-air.

Short hop, airdodge + bombdrop. Uncharged grounded spin attack.

Short hop, airdodge + bombdrop. D-tilt, N-air.

Short hop, airdodge + bombdrop. N-air.

I just did something crazy! :crazy:

NEW! Invincibombing to Z-air, to N-air!

Airdodge and press attack button at the same time to "Invincibomb." As soon as you drop your bomb, cancel your airdodge with a Z-air. The bomb explosion and the Z-air will count as a consecutive 2 hit combo, and will do 8% damage, compared to 4% damage just from a normal Z-air. That's twice as much damage! Often, it is very easy to hit with N-air after Z-air hits.

Bomb drop 4% damage.
Z-air 4% damage.
N-air 12% damage I estimate. <.<
= 18 damage easily.

I stood up til 3am testing these combos out. They are all true combos if you get the timing down perfectly. It also helps if your opponent is a big character and if you slow down the timing to get used to it.
This also works for Link, but not as effectively, since Link's bombs have greater knockback and less blast radius.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Z-air Reverse Aerial Rush (RAR)

It's just like you think it is. This may be known, I'm quite sure it is, however I haven't seen many Toon Link's see its usefulness. So what makes it different from a normal Z-air?

It can be used as a mindgame approach, most opponents would expect a B-air from a RAR.

You land behind your opponent preventing him from shield grabbing you.

Z-air RAR, combo's just as good as the normal Z-air.

This also works for Link and Samus, although it works with Toon Link better, since Toon Link has better aerial mobility than Link and Samus.

... Yup, I'm pretty sure Toon Link is going to be high tier at least on the next tier list. ;)
 

CaliburChamp

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Wait... for the RAR zair, do you run/jump behind your opponent and then zair? Or do you just get really close to them so it hits?
RAR (Reverse Aerial Rush) - Run, pivot control stick opposite from your run while jumping very soon after.

You run up to your opponent, RAR, then airdodge, the momentum from the RAR will make your airdodge move toward them. Then once your behind your opponent use Z-air.
 

Mota

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Sounds good. Gotta go try the INVICIBOMB!

Your tactic of RAR Zair seems punishable, but I guess it would work if they shield, expecting a bair, and then letting down their shield once they see you airdoge past them.

Nice work
 

vanderzant

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RAR (Reverse Aerial Rush) - Run, pivot control stick opposite from your run while jumping very soon after.

You run up to your opponent, RAR, then airdodge, the momentum from the RAR will make your airdodge move toward them. Then once your behind your opponent use Z-air.
>.>

Yeah I know what RAR is.

I guess it could work if your opponent doesn't expect it and doesn't just run backwards and punish.

But I don't even RAR much anymore with TL.

I probably don't even approach unless I'm up against Falco.

Hopefully someone else can put it to better use though.

:ohwell:
 

iRjOn

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it does
but to do what he really meant its probally
AD> z for an item drop
but pressing AD>a makes you zair with a bomb at hand leading
to the epic VG omobo


Vanderzant

idk how you alls game play is over there in the big ol'blue
but RAR is super effective
when you rar you gotta do it at the right time
say your opponet is close just got hit by a bomb
and he near sword distance away
RaR and rack up some damage baby

just some advise is all
did you understand the advantages of RARing before?
if not does this help you understand?
 

VietGeek

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AD > Z & AD > A produce the same output, hookshot.


He means do it immediately at the same time (L/R + A). Still seems like you'd have put yourself in a risky spot to even get off these combos, which seems to be to my understanding, pretty close to them, too much for comfort on, hypothetically, MK, Falco, Snake, Marth, & D3.

The bomb radius is huge, but your sword isn't unfortunately. I'd like to see this in action before I conclude anything.

The RAR Zair is really one of those mindgame sort of things that only works like...maybe once or twice a match. It's an okay mix-up, I can't say much more. Might be something good to do for retreating.
 

CaliburChamp

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I just did something crazy! :crazy:

Invincibombing to Z-air, to N-air!

Airdodge and press attack button at the same time to "Invincibomb." As soon as you drop your bomb, cancel your airdodge with a Z-air. The bomb explosion and the Z-air will count as a consecutive 2 hit combo, and will do 8% damage, compared to 4% damage just from a normal Z-air. That's twice as much damage! Often, it is very easy to hit with N-air after Z-air hits.

Bomb drop 4% damage.
Z-air 4% damage.
N-air 12% damage I estimate. <.<
= 18 damage easily.

I'm also recording videos today, so they will be uploaded sometime tomorrow.
Video's of combo set ups. Against a moving Lvl 1 CPU, and against a real human player online. I'll show the many different applications into using Invincibombing. You can Invinciblebomb combo into many moves, on the ledge, platforms. etc.
 

vanderzant

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@iRjOn

Yeah I know how to RAR and why you would do it, etc

I just dont usually approach with bair. Zair and Nair are less punishable IMO. Like I said before, in most match ups TL shouldn't really be approaching at all.

I find bair is better when used OoS and when your opponent is trying to approach you (i.e. they rush you and you just jump and space a retreating bair)

Maybe my TL is just more defensive and camp orientated then others?
 

CaliburChamp

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AD > Z & AD > A produce the same output, hookshot.


He means do it immediately at the same time (L/R + A). Still seems like you'd have put yourself in a risky spot to even get off these combos, which seems to be to my understanding, pretty close to them, too much for comfort on, hypothetically, MK, Falco, Snake, Marth, & D3.

The bomb radius is huge, but your sword isn't unfortunately. I'd like to see this in action before I conclude anything.

The RAR Zair is really one of those mindgame sort of things that only works like...maybe once or twice a match. It's an okay mix-up, I can't say much more. Might be something good to do for retreating.
If your dealing with characters with long range attacks. You can jump out of shield, AD+Z (Invincibomb) to up-tilt, up-smash, Z-air, F-tilt, and so on.
 

Alzi

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I understood it more with the video. Seems useful might go try it in some matches, nice find.
 

Lobos

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This is also good for mindgames, making your opponent think that you going to AD + zair. Don't know about the raring zair tho, actually not many toons use raring as much anymore because the kizzu combo isn't a true combo anymore lol......I still use it tho so I'll try both of these out.
 

CaliburChamp

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Ill add a link to this thread on my bomb Guide ^_^
If thats alright with you >.<
Sure, go ahead! :)

This is also good for mindgames, making your opponent think that you going to AD + zair. Don't know about the raring zair tho, actually not many toons use raring as much anymore because the kizzu combo isn't a true combo anymore lol......I still use it tho so I'll try both of these out.
RAR Z-airing helps in certain matchups, and yes the invincibomb is good for mindgames, most people are so used to a hookshot extending. It my opinion, invincibombing is a "must" know technique. RAR Z-airing is a good technique enough to learn it, it's good for mindgames and preventing yourself from getting shield grabbed.
 

TLMSheikant

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I was experimenting and I found a way to combine this 2 ATs. ;) RAR invincibomb to zair to grab. It's freaking difficult to do at first but it works. And u can also RAR invincibomb land on the other side of the shield and grab the opponent while hes distracted with the bomb. :)
 

CaliburChamp

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I was experimenting and I found a way to combine this 2 ATs. ;) RAR invincibomb to zair to grab. It's freaking difficult to do at first but it works. And u can also RAR invincibomb land on the other side of the shield and grab the opponent while hes distracted with the bomb. :)
Wow, good stuff! I didn't know about the grabbing part. I'll try it with grabs next time.
 

Phoenix~Lament

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I learned how to do the I-Bomb to Zair to Nair. It does 16% in training mode, where there's no decay. Not half bad.

Once you learn how to I-Bomb (took me about 10 minutes to do it consistently, at will. The timing's a little tricky) comboing it into a Zair then Nair is eaaassy. Took me like.. 30 seconds to get down. Learn this technique guys. At the very least, I-bombing is just another option while retreating.
 

CaliburChamp

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I learned how to do the I-Bomb to Zair to Nair. It does 16% in training mode, where there's no decay. Not half bad.

Once you learn how to I-Bomb (took me about 10 minutes to do it consistently, at will. The timing's a little tricky) comboing it into a Zair then Nair is eaaassy. Took me like.. 30 seconds to get down. Learn this technique guys. At the very least, I-bombing is just another option while retreating.
That combo should do more than 16% damage. 4%(bomb explosion)+4%(Z-air)+12%(N-air) = 20% damage.
Nice shortened version for Invinci-Bombing, I-bombing. lol.

Yup, it takes about 10 minutes to get the timing down with Invinci-Bombing, you have to learn to air dodge close to the ground, but not too close to the ground, otherwise your air dodge will touch the ground to soon and you'll get hit from the explosion.
Also, if your opponent uses shield against this, the bomb will bounce on the shield, and you can pivot grab if your opponent continues to shield, the bomb bounce creates shield stun too so you'll be able to pivot grab before they can side dodge, however if they get hit by the bomb just follow up with an attack, up-smash works great especially for a combo to set up into an easy KO.
Toon Link's combo to KO move is... invinci-Bombing to up-smash.
as to Fox's D-air to Up-smash.

I-bombing is a must learn technique!
 

Remzi

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The Links already know about "invincibombing."

The links and tinks should really communicate more >_>
 

Sosuke

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The links are ***s.
Screw them.

Except NintendJoe.
 

TLMarth

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I. Don't. Understand how to do it.

I can feel TL's game advancing. I've noticed it's mostly with bombs.

EDIT:
I know how to do it now!
There should be an amendment, you don't press them together, you press R/L first then A right after

I don't really like it, it requires you to be close to the enemy. It's better as an option Out Of Shield.
Still, it's good to have an ever growing arsenal of tricks.
 

Jman115

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I was playing around with the AD through an opponent thing and if you time it right you can actually AD through an opponent and instead of zair, you can place you jump just right so you get your jab set off the second you land. And if you time the jump right, you land the second you are behind them.

One poor piece about ADing through opponents is that it doesn't take long for them to catch on and just back air you or back smash. I have to play around with invincibombing more, doesn't seem like it will always combo, just sometimes.
 

CaliburChamp

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I. Don't. Understand how to do it.

I can feel TL's game advancing. I've noticed it's mostly with bombs.

EDIT:
I know how to do it now!
There should be an amendment, you don't press them together, you press R/L first then A right after

I don't really like it, it requires you to be close to the enemy. It's better as an option Out Of Shield.
Still, it's good to have an ever growing arsenal of tricks.
You can prevent getting hit by doing this by jumping out of shield, and your opponent can't hit you when you airdodge, the thing is you have to space yourself the correct way. Spacing and timing is key, to master this technique. Once you master the timing and spacing on this move, it would be alot harder to punish it, even for characters with long range melee attacks. Like all other techniques, it takes practice.

I was playing around with the AD through an opponent thing and if you time it right you can actually AD through an opponent and instead of zair, you can place you jump just right so you get your jab set off the second you land. And if you time the jump right, you land the second you are behind them.

One poor piece about ADing through opponents is that it doesn't take long for them to catch on and just back air you or back smash. I have to play around with invincibombing more, doesn't seem like it will always combo, just sometimes.
Yes, you can AD through your opponent, while bomb dropping near them, then do a pivot jab, or pivot jab cancel into a smash attack or tilt.
With certain characters it's harder to hit, since they are smaller targets, so the timing and spacing is a little bit different, compared to a large character. I haven't mastered Invinci-Bombing either, but the benefit to learning this is definitely good!
 

TLMSheikant

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I actually did toy a lot with this yesterday in a friendly just for testing. I told my opponent (he was a ROB) to airdodge or jump, try to get out of ibomb usmash at kiling percents and he told me he couldnt. BTW, hes a very good rob. So i think that this may be a new setup for usmash. ;) Remember that dropped bombs do less damage and knockback than regular throws so thats why it combos into usmash at high percents. And remember also that it sends ur opponent to the other side of ur bomb explosion. So if u hit them from right and AD through them, land on the other side and buffer an usmash, utilt or uair it'll work.
 

CaliburChamp

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I actually did toy a lot with this yesterday in a friendly. I told my opponent (he was a ROB) to airdodge or jump, try to get out of ibomb usmash at kiling percents and he told me he couldnt. BTW, hes a very good rob. So i think that this may be a new setup for usmash. ;)
Invinci-Bombing to up-smash is a "true combo" in training mode it registers as 2 consecutive hits, 1 from the explosion, the other from up-smash. It is a great combo that leads into a KO. I did Invinci-Bombing to up-smash in the video I uploaded, and it's an easy combo to pull off. Obviously its harder to pull off on wifi, because you need good timing to make it a true combo, even if it's not a true combo because you messed up with the timing, it still hits sometimes.

Toon Link is BROKEN! lol.

It's like an invincible attack, a free combo set up, especially if this is mastered.
 

TLMSheikant

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Well ibombing seems good. But if they catch up to this u know ur screwed lol. But it seems like a good way to setup, something TL lacked. A way to setup kill moves. For that, I give this thread 5 stars. ;)
 

Lobos

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I can't do this as told......blast me using a classic controller........A buttons does nothing for me when I'm in the air so I gotta do this a bit differently.
 

Sosuke

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Invinci-Bombing to up-smash is a "true combo" .
Who else smiled?


Yay for threads that help with things that are really important! =)
I'm actually gonna try this stuff out now.
 

Sosuke

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Shiiiiiz.

We can start calling stuff like: INair, IBair.
Sounds sexy.

And combos ftw. =)
 

Legendary Pikachu

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I think it has untapped mind-game potential though. Depending on the height at which people drop the bombs, it could prevent shield-grabs or punish a shield grab. Imagine making people hesitant in shield-grabbing--that opens up frontal attacks and more aggresiveness for a TL.

At the very least, its a mental attack on people who think they got Toon Link figured. TL's can also z-air out of iBombing and it auto-cancels. With DI you could advance, ibomb, then DI back so you're out of punish length (anything still too close can probably be countered with a well timed z-air).

This just comes from experience fighting my brother, who mains TL.

Hope that helps.

Sincerely,
Legendary Pikachu, LDPK, still a fledgeling smashboards'er
 
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