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Squid Inkling UpThrow UpAir Kill % Chart

Vert

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Me and @Wish7s labbed out some early Up-throw Up-air kill %'s on the cast.
Currently we tested solely based on optimal killing %. However we'll be updating this chart frequently as we test this out more. Many characters upperbound kill % will drop during full DI away of the upthrow.

  • All %'s will kill with optimal upair DI
  • All testing was also performed on FD blastzones.
  • Higher % will require changing the timing of the double jump
 
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Vert

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What does the red and yellow text mean?
Yellow text is an error.
Red text is for characters will unsure ranges. Due to either executional error or just unsure. Rather small ranges like Villager with a 1% range feels odd. So we'll continue to test these to double check further as we update this chart.
 

Dark_Ky

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for me the timing of up-throw->up-air seems very awkward. is there a trick/buffer or timing to it? I have trouble connecting it at kill%
 

skater11

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for me the timing of up-throw->up-air seems very awkward. is there a trick/buffer or timing to it? I have trouble connecting it at kill%
I can't imagine how the hell this works. I can bearly connect up airs at 80%ish percent. but i'll test it out some more.
Edit: Woah!!! timing is key. it can be a little frustrating at first though. You have to utilize double jump!
 
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Vert

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for me the timing of up-throw->up-air seems very awkward. is there a trick/buffer or timing to it? I have trouble connecting it at kill%
The timing for upthrow upair is very key.

Buffering a full hop by holding jump duri g the throw has helped me tremendously. I know Wishes on the other hand times his jump.

The trick is to double jump around the halfway point of the full hop and do an instant upair during the double jump.(pressing jump + upair)
Keep in mind at the higher %'s you may have to change the timings for different characters
 

Frinckles

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Are you guys positive this is a true combo and can't be DI'd out of?

Aside from the massive height opponents get throw to and the difficulty reaching them before they get out of hitstun, this seems unreliable. I've tried it at against multiple opponents and I'm beginning to think the numbers are off. If you guys have multiple videos of this being done when live opponents are actively mashing I'd appreciate it.

It's fully plausible that I'm just not executing it correctly, but I can't see this killing in any scenario where you don't grab them on top of a platform where the ceiling is lower.
 
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ssauronn

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Remember to scale these numbers based on your rage (max rage adds a 1.15x multiplier to knockback dealt). So, for example, the minimum amount of percent on enemy required to kill Incineroar would drop down from 131% to 111% if your own percent is 150%. That rage also effects the max percent ceiling for a kill as well, as max rage would reduce the combo ceiling for Incineroar from 157% to 133%.

Are you guys positive this is a true combo and can't be DI'd out of?

Aside from the massive height opponents get throw to and the difficulty reaching them before they get out of hitstun, this seems unreliable. I've tried it at against multiple opponents and I'm beginning to think the numbers are off. If you guys have multiple videos of this being done when live opponents are actively mashing I'd appreciate it.

It's fully plausible that I'm just not executing it correctly, but I can't see this killing in any scenario where you don't grab them on top of a platform where the ceiling is lower.
Look up some higher level inkling tournament gameplay. Its definitely a combo on some characters, especially heavies. Not sure about all characters though as there's just not enough gameplay yet to prove that.
 

RAzul

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So you gotta buffer the jump orr...? I’m having trouble getting this down and jus need a LITTLE guidance please. How should I be executing this atthe varying % across the cast. With this in my arsenal, I’ll be a LOT better.
 

Vert

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So you gotta buffer the jump orr...? I’m having trouble getting this down and jus need a LITTLE guidance please. How should I be executing this atthe varying % across the cast. With this in my arsenal, I’ll be a LOT better.
You can choose whether you want to buffer your jump or not. I know many people that do either/or.
For simplicity sake I tried to maintain the timing the same across the board, in the footnotes of version 2 of the chart I have some changes in the timing listed.
 

Krisspear

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So I hold jump (y-button) while the upthrow animation is happening; and I will buffer a fullhop, that will come out as soon as the upthrow animation is over?
Then proceed to wait untill I'm about halfway to the apex of the jump, before I press doublejump upair [y + attack up]?
 

Zonderion

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So I hold jump (y-button) while the upthrow animation is happening; and I will buffer a fullhop, that will come out as soon as the upthrow animation is over?
Then proceed to wait untill I'm about halfway to the apex of the jump, before I press doublejump upair [y + attack up]?
I struggle with this too. Your first question is 100% correct.

Any other tips on this? It just feels like I can never reach them in time.
 

Izanami99

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Sorry this is an old thread but I was playing around and got up throw up air to combo at higher percentages than in the chart. Shulk I could get consistently up until about 150% but that's with no DI. I plan on testing further if anyone is interested I'll post more.
Zelda I got up to 128
Wolf 137
Link 149
Greninja 133
Young Link 130
Isabelle 121
Pikachu 120

Edit: Also to those having trouble I found it easier to time the jump than buffer it and then treat the jump into double jump up air as one fluid motion and not separate inputs. Also I input the first jump with Y on a GC controller then the second jump with the analog stick and I press A at about the same time as the second jump input.
 
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BlackInk

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I struggle with this too. Your first question is 100% correct.

Any other tips on this? It just feels like I can never reach them in time.
Judging by the Ken buffs. I think we might need a buff on the upthrow hitstun to help make the kill confirm more consistent. If they do that, more people will struggle less with playing inkling (including Cosmos) and possibly will have a more enjoyable time playing with her, overall.
 
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Izanami99

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Judging by the Ken buffs. I think we might need a buff on the upthrow hitstun to help make the kill confirm more consistent. If they do that, more people will struggle less with playing inkling (including Cosmos) and possibly will have a more enjoyable time playing with her, overall.
What kind of buff would you suggest? More hit lag on your opponents could help combo easier and so could less end lag for the up throw.
 

BlackInk

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What kind of buff would you suggest? More hit lag on your opponents could help combo easier and so could less end lag for the up throw.
I see the first suggestion working more effectively. It’ll help Inkling be less stressful to play when you get some more time to think properly.
 
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Izanami99

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I see the first suggestion working more effectively. It’ll help Inkling be less stressful to play when you get some more time to think properly.
I think it works fine as it is personally. It just requires practice to get it down. I don't think characters that have the ability to be good but are hard should be made easier.
 

BlackInk

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I think it works fine as it is personally. It just requires practice to get it down. I don't think characters that have the ability to be good but are hard should be made easier.
It’s just that her kill confirms are already ridiculously strict at extremely high percents that we need a chart for it. If they are not going to buff that to make it more consistent, can they at least nerf one ground/air move to give it enough reduced/fixed knockback to combo into a smash attack? If you think that sounds broken, have it only work with higher percents (due to hit stun and percentage connections).
 

Izanami99

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It’s just that her kill confirms are already ridiculously strict at extremely high percents that we need a chart for it. If they are not going to buff that to make it more consistent, can they at least nerf one ground/air move to give it enough reduced/fixed knockback to combo into a smash attack? If you think that sounds broken, have it only work with higher percents (due to hit stun and percentage connections).
Single hit up air combos into up smash already. I get it pretty frequently.
 

BlackInk

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Single hit up air combos into up smash already. I get it pretty frequently.
Oh, I almost forget that. I haven’t seen any top-level players use it for some reason. Maybe they don’t practice it or are too scared to use it.

Also, when I think back on inkling, I’m thinking that instead of making it easier to do their upthrow confirm, we’ll have these kill confirms work until somewhere in 150% (or higher, depending on a specific character). It’s just to make the character upthrow kills more consistent at higher percentages instead of being too ridiculous tight at an opponent’s percentages (especially when you recall their ink mechanic). I don’t think that’ll make Inkling too strong, just less awkward to fight against or fight with.
 

Izanami99

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Oh, I almost forget that. I haven’t seen any top-level players use it for some reason. Maybe they don’t practice it or are too scared to use it.

Also, when I think back on inkling, I’m thinking that instead of making it easier to do their upthrow confirm, we’ll have these kill confirms work until somewhere in 150% (or higher, depending on a specific character). It’s just to make the character upthrow kills more consistent at higher percentages instead of being too ridiculous tight at an opponent’s percentages (especially when you recall their ink mechanic). I don’t think that’ll make Inkling too strong, just less awkward to fight against or fight with.
The window for killing with it is pretty tight on some characters but most characters on that chart can combo at higher percentages than the chart says. You gotta play around with it yourself and get the right technique down. I definitely wouldn't turn down more kill confirms though as much as I say she doesn't need a buff. It would be nice.

Edit: It's also completely possible that at a top level single hit up air isn't viable. Either that or top inklings aren't as good as they can be yet.
 
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BlackInk

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The window for killing with it is pretty tight on some characters but most characters on that chart can combo at higher percentages than the chart says. You gotta play around with it yourself and get the right technique down. I definitely wouldn't turn down more kill confirms though as much as I say she doesn't need a buff. It would be nice.

Edit: It's also completely possible that at a top level single hit up air isn't viable. Either that or top inklings aren't as good as they can be yet.
It sounds like to me that Inkling needs some refining both on the player’s side and on the balancer’s side. I’m suspecting that Inkling hasn’t been properly refined yet by the balancers. What I mean is that they haven’t adjusted some of minor things about Inkling like her strict kill confirms. I feel that they may want to make them more practical but Inkling is too new that they are still don’t understand her enough, unlike Ken or Caption Falcon. Let’s not forget that Joker and other dlc characters will receive much better treatment than the main cast just for being the ones with a pricetag attached to them. In other words, the dlc characters will be made to work and completely realized (except for minor tweaking) before they are even released on the Nintendo store.

What makes me think they’ll approve of improving Inkling kill confirms is that it doesn’t seem to go against their design philosophy. What they don’t like is a non-heavy making ridiculously early kills with a smash attack or aerial. They do however, want non-heavy characters like Joker, Fox, Falco, or Greninja to have practical kill confirms and I can easily see Inkling being a part of that, especially when they only kill at high percentages.
 

Izanami99

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It sounds like to me that Inkling needs some refining both on the player’s side and on the balancer’s side. I’m suspecting that Inkling hasn’t been properly refined yet by the balancers. What I mean is that they haven’t adjusted some of minor things about Inkling like her strict kill confirms. I feel that they may want to make them more practical but Inkling is too new that they are still don’t understand her enough, unlike Ken or Caption Falcon. Let’s not forget that Joker and other dlc characters will receive much better treatment than the main cast just for being the ones with a pricetag attached to them. In other words, the dlc characters will be made to work and completely realized (except for minor tweaking) before they are even released on the Nintendo store.

What makes me think they’ll approve of improving Inkling kill confirms is that it doesn’t seem to go against their design philosophy. What they don’t like is a non-heavy making ridiculously early kills with a smash attack or aerial. They do however, want non-heavy characters like Joker, Fox, Falco, or Greninja to have practical kill confirms and I can easily see Inkling being a part of that, especially when they only kill at high percentages.
I think the problem is the players. If inklings can get tech chasing with roller down and single hit up air into up smash I don't think she would struggle at the top to get kills. It's there people just aren't doing it. I don't think it's in Nintendo to make inkling better it's on top players to be better.
 

BlackInk

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I think the problem is the players. If inklings can get tech chasing with roller down and single hit up air into up smash I don't think she would struggle at the top to get kills. It's there people just aren't doing it. I don't think it's in Nintendo to make inkling better it's on top players to be better.
The first up-air hit box doesn’t appear functional. If you test it on a small character, you’ll see that its hit box is very wonky for some reason. It has similar problems as her up-tilt. It doesn’t feel like it is intentional, like how Caption Falcon’s up-tilt is very wonky before patch 3.1.
 

MercuryPenny

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a lack of consistent kill confirms off low-risk options is only theoretically negligible, at an applicable level it means you have to play more neutral, which means more room for error, and your opponent getting max rage more often, which means more volatility

it's a very real factor in a character's competitive viability, and why it took smash 4 shiek 2 years to get her one and only post-patch win at a major. it shouldn't be dismissed.
 

BlackInk

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a lack of consistent kill confirms off low-risk options is only theoretically negligible, at an applicable level it means you have to play more neutral, which means more room for error, and your opponent getting max rage more often, which means more volatility

it's a very real factor in a character's competitive viability, and why it took smash 4 shiek 2 years to get her one and only post-patch win at a major. it shouldn't be dismissed.
It’s honestly ridiculous that they haven’t given her a working and more consistent kill confirm when they are perfectly okay with Warp Wario and Arsene while nerfing her roller without any exchanges in return. At this point, people only say that Inkling is great because of her potential. They don’t consider that despite her potential, she needs some legimate refinements to her boo-yahs combos. Heck, if they change her nearly useless up-tilt to a low-knockback, high percent kill confirm, she will instantly struggle way less in tournaments.

It’s not like these kill confirm buffs will make her beyond broken. In fact, this will make opponents actually scared of getting inked because they know if they rack up too much damage, one move (not a ridiculously hard read) will get rid of their stock.
 

Izanami99

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The first up-air hit box doesn’t appear functional. If you test it on a small character, you’ll see that its hit box is very wonky for some reason. It has similar problems as her up-tilt. It doesn’t feel like it is intentional, like how Caption Falcon’s up-tilt is very wonky before patch 3.1.
I'm not having the same issues. If I time it right I can consistently combo single hit up air into upsmash on pichu. Are you fast falling the aerial?
I think inkling could have some of the windows for her kill confirms be less tight but as she is she is a top tier threat if played to her highest potential. Shes just difficult which makes her more satisfying to me.
 
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BlackInk

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I'm not having the same issues. If I time it right I can consistently combo single hit up air into upsmash on pichu. Are you fast falling the aerial?
I think inkling could have some of the windows for her kill confirms be less tight but as she is she is a top tier threat if played to her highest potential. Shes just difficult which makes her more satisfying to me.
Unless you come to an actual tournament and consistently use this against top-players, I can’t believe you. And no I’m not fast-falling the aerial, I know that it only worsens its chances of landing.
 
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Izanami99

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Unless you come to an actual tournament and consistently use this against top-players, I can’t believe you. And no I’m not fast-falling the aerial, I know that it only worsens its chances of landing.
I don't care if a guy on smash boards believes me honestly so go ahead and don't believe me. I can land it on pichu without trouble it's just a tight window so it'll be hard to land on a person. If I can't it's because I'm bad not because the character is.
 

BlackInk

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I don't care if a guy on smash boards believes me honestly so go ahead and don't believe me. I can land it on pichu without trouble it's just a tight window so it'll be hard to land on a person. If I can't it's because I'm bad not because the character is.
I’m not looking for faith, I’m looking for actual evidence of viability.
 

BlackInk

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Thanks man I appreciate it :)
I have a question to ask you though. Is there a way we can modify the game to test out any changes to characters? I think if we have that, we may have a practical way of readjusting them without outright ruining them or making them busted. If we have something like that, maybe we can show them off to the smash community for any approvablity.
 

Djmarcus44

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Hello Inkling mains. I am a Mii Gunner main that is also working on an up throw to up air kill confirm. Was this tested with or without the freshness bonus? I also found a more updated chart for Inkling on izaw's Inkling guide. By the way, if any of you want to help me finish up with Gunner's up throw to up air, the help would be greatly appreciated.
Screenshot_20190810-193522_Discord.jpg
 
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