Increase turnip throw distance

[emy]

With Peach turnips that are thrown backwards go further than turnips that are thrown facing forwards. Yes this is using smash/cstick throws. You can use this to your advantage using something similar to a pivot fsmash as marth. If you dashback/pivot to turnip throw in the opposite direction of your dash you can get the increased distance of the backwards turnip pull. This is something I have not been able to find on the internet besides my post on reddit and it revolutionizes the way standing turnips can be used. I try to show the increased distance in this video. I get a mix of weak throws, smash throws, and then dashback turnip throws. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uaa8saXN5B4. This is applicable in any situation you are throwing a standing turnip, and it is very simple. To accomplish this literally just dash back and cstick in the direction you want your turnip to go.

 

[CAUP]

It's pretty common knowledge, on quetz's guide, it's pinned

 

[emy]

It's pretty common knowledge, on quetz's guide, it's pinned

I see where he says that turnips thrown backwards go further, but I have never seen anyone implement it in this manner. I have watched and studied Armada extensively and MacD(somewhat) and I have never seen them do this. dash-back/pivot turnip is a small simple technique that I know a lot of people don't use.

 

[CAUP]

True, and it is pretty good for ground control. The thing is fox and Falco can use shine and shine is actually really good in this specific situation. Not to discredit the use of this because it is still good of course, but shine really is a problem.

 

[emy]

All this does is give your turnip throws slightly more distance. There really is no reason to not use it unless you need precise turnip spacing on an edgeguard. This is something every peach should be able to do since it is so simple and useful that they will all use it.

 

[CAUP]

I definitely agree, Peaches should know they have this option. And it is sometimes a very good one. I usually use it when I do grounded throws. Against Marth, reverse grounded turnips are a super great option for zoning. But this is not always the best option. It trades off a slight increase in distance for less control during the throw. That is why in many situations a short hot reverse turnip throw is better. Like I was saying earlier, shine is really good against this option, reverse grounded throw, because you are stuck in one position for so long. It is useful, but it is not always the best way to throw a turnip. I know you are not saying that though.

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

magus just showed that this difference in bthrow distance is due to a slightly higher release point. the speed and angle are the same as fthrow. right under that post is more data on her throws

 

[Sycorax]

magus just showed that this difference in bthrow distance is due to a slightly higher release point. the speed and angle are the same as fthrow. right under that post is more data on her throws

Wait what?
His post says:

Throw           X      Y      Speed          Angle
Grd Frwd Smash  2.1439 0.4167 2.1840 (3.640) 11
Grd Back Smash -2.1439 0.4167 2.1840 (3.640) 11

The Y release values are the same

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

Wait what?
His post says:

Throw           X      Y      Speed          Angle
Grd Frwd Smash  2.1439 0.4167 2.1840 (3.640) 11
Grd Back Smash -2.1439 0.4167 2.1840 (3.640) 11

The Y release values are the same

i think he was referring to this , found in the post above the one you cited. to be precise he said a higher release point is 'probably' the reason it goes farther (in a pm)
(frame, ThrowN, TransN)

-Peach F-Throw-
13 6.16056 10.3451
14 6.27994 10.3451
15 6.27994 10.3451 *
16 6.27994 10.3451
17 6.27994 10.3451

-Peach B-Throw-
21 -6.5123 10.3866 *

 

[Sycorax]

i think he was referring to this , found in the post above the one you cited. to be precise he said a higher release point is 'probably' the reason it goes farther (in a pm)
(frame, ThrowN, TransN)

-Peach F-Throw-
13 6.16056 10.3451
14 6.27994 10.3451
15 6.27994 10.3451 *
16 6.27994 10.3451
17 6.27994 10.3451

-Peach B-Throw-
21 -6.5123 10.3866 *

But that's for throwing characters. Throwing items is a completely different animation. He may have said that higher release point is probably the reason, but the data he posted contradicts that.

 

[Magus420]

That X and Y in the 2nd post isn't the release point. 2.1439 0.4167 would be right along the floor if it were. It's the XY of something thrown at 2.1840 speed at an angle of 11 (though I worked that out in reverse, determining the speeds and angles by first getting the XY). The first post is throws on characters.

This is the item release point difference I was referring to:

 

[Sycorax]

It's the XY of something thrown at 2.1840 speed at an angle of 11

I'm still confused. It's the XY coordinates at what point in time? Is it the XY coordinates of the turnip?

 

[Magus420]

The X and Y components of the velocity.

 

[Sycorax]

Then what er the values under speed? I understand what the first one is, Pythagoras yada yada, but what's the second?

 

[Magus420]

Speed of a turnip which has a 0.6x modifier, and the normal item speed for that throw before the turnip multiplier.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

With Peach turnips that are thrown backwards go further than turnips that are thrown facing forwards. Yes this is using smash/cstick throws. You can use this to your advantage using something similar to a pivot fsmash as marth. If you dashback/pivot to turnip throw in the opposite direction of your dash you can get the increased distance of the backwards turnip pull. This is something I have not been able to find on the internet besides my post on reddit and it revolutionizes the way standing turnips can be used. I try to show the increased distance in this video. I get a mix of weak throws, smash throws, and then dashback turnip throws. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uaa8saXN5B4. This is applicable in any situation you are throwing a standing turnip, and it is very simple. To accomplish this literally just dash back and cstick in the direction you want your turnip to go.

This... is actually something that is not written in my guide and something I haven't heard of or seen before.

It looks very similar to existing known tech but its very subtle in how it is different. When I first saw it, my reaction was underwhelming, but then it was your description that made me realise that this is something else:

'To accomplish this literally just dash back and cstick in the direction you want your turnip to go'

To clarify we know of 3 ways of doing a reverse back throw currently:

1. Shield stop - > Shield throw: While running in a direction you cancel your run with shield then throw backwards
2. Jump Canceled Throw: While running, jump and immediately cancel with turnip throw
3. Pivot: Back throw turnip in the same manner one would pivot fsmash

What you're describing is something a little bit different than the above. After testing it myself I found a way to improve it a bit as well:

It seems that you can throw an item during the initial dash phase. This is kinda cool, but a super fast Jump Canceled throw can accomplish the same thing, except its much tougher to do and with the jump component, its likely to be marginally slower.

However I found that the regular turning-on-the-spot animation can be canceled in a reverse throw as well, effectively doing exactly the same thing but without losing any distance through the dash and shaving a few frames off as well.

While this mechanic is very likely to be known by frame wizards like Magus and Splits, I have not heard of anyone combining the fact that back throw turnip goes further than forward throw and the fact you can cancel your turn with a turnip throw.

Ergo, as far as I'm concerned, this is new Peach tech. And strangely enough, very applicable, especially vs Marth.
In any situation where a standing smash throw would be used to cover horizontal space, there is basically no reason to ever not do this.

Because this can be so easily confused with the other turnip options, I'd suggest 'extended (turnip) throw' as the name of the technique.

 

[Kidney Thief]

This... is actually something that is not written in my guide and something I haven't heard of or seen before.

It looks very similar to existing known tech but its very subtle in how it is different. When I first saw it, my reaction was underwhelming, but then it was your description that made me realise that this is something else:

'To accomplish this literally just dash back and cstick in the direction you want your turnip to go'

To clarify we know of 3 ways of doing a reverse back throw currently:

1. Shield stop - > Shield throw: While running in a direction you cancel your run with shield then throw backwards
2. Jump Canceled Throw: While running, jump and immediately cancel with turnip throw
3. Pivot: Back throw turnip in the same manner one would pivot fsmash

What you're describing is something a little bit different than the above. After testing it myself I found a way to improve it a bit as well:

It seems that you can throw an item during the initial dash phase. This is kinda cool, but a super fast Jump Canceled throw can accomplish the same thing, except its much tougher to do and with the jump component, its likely to be marginally slower.

However I found that the regular turning-on-the-spot animation can be canceled in a reverse throw as well, effectively doing exactly the same thing but without losing any distance through the dash and shaving a few frames off as well.

While this mechanic is very likely to be known by frame wizards like Magus and Splits, I have not heard of anyone combining the fact that back throw turnip goes further than forward throw and the fact you can cancel your turn with a turnip throw.

Ergo, as far as I'm concerned, this is new Peach tech. And strangely enough, very applicable, especially vs Marth.
In any situation where a standing smash throw would be used to cover horizontal space, there is basically no reason to ever not do this.

Because this can be so easily confused with the other turnip options, I'd suggest 'extended (turnip) throw' as the name of the technique.

Sorry to disappoint you but the fact that hes back throw sends futher has been know for years by many people. I think I learned about it last year watching a stream

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

Sorry to disappoint you but the fact that hes back throw sends futher has been know for years by many people. I think I learned about it last year watching a stream

you're telling that to the guy who wrote the guide mentioned in the 2nd comment

he is saying that the exact method used to get the bthrow that will result in extra distance is slightly different than what he used

 

[emy]

I like the name extended (turnip) throw.