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Incorporating Food in Competitive Play

Tesh

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How does everyone feel about adding food to competitive play to alter the way the game is played?

Is it beneficial, harmful or ineffective for dealing with stalling?

Opinions?

Useful facts?
 

John12346

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I'd say it stops planking, but it doesn't really do much to other traditional stall methods...
 

san.

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Don't really have much of an opinion, especially since I've never tried it out for myself.


EDIT: Actually, I think it's pretty fun. (based on the ~5 matches I just tried)

You have a good idea when food will spawn. At an 8 minute timer, I always expected the first food to spawn around 7:38 to 7:36

If you eat food within seconds of spawning, the next should spawn in the next 20-23 seconds. I was never surprised when food spawned because ~20 seconds passed each time. I was lucky to see food 4 times in a minute unless the stage was SV (balloon carries food) or Yoshi's Island (Shy Guys carry food). I saw food more in that match.

Not really sure how much it helps against planking. The planker knows when the food will spawn, and food doesn't really heal too much (some as low as 2%). But over a longer period of period of time, if one person expects to get food each time, in a minute he will probably heal ~10-25%. Helpful against planking with a miniscule lead, but if the lead is like you 120 and MK 50 with 2 minutes left last stock, don't expect food to save you.

I thought food spawned by the balloon and shy guys to be fairly interesting. I still have no strong opinions on the issue. Food never really changed anything at all when I was playing. That may be a good thing to people, though.
 

Tesh

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Ah I didn't even think about stages that spawn food. Food based CPs?

Also, am I correct in assuming that Diddy Kong can produce food with his peanut gun if food is turned on? (omg mk counter?)
 

Flayl

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san is that food on low? the healing sounds way too slow with 20 seconds per... dish.
 

san.

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Yes, it was on low. It would be even more unrealistic if it was on medium or high, right?
 

Flayl

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I'm not sure what you mean by unrealistic. My point is food on low doesn't seem enough to stop planking
 

Tesh

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Idk, do we really need food to equalize MASSIVE leads anyway? If I did like 100 damage and you only did like 10, its pretty clear who is winning right?
 

Life

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You forgot the one-stock part.

And if anyone says anything about capsules, I will personally steal Ness' bat and smack you with it. :awesome:
 

GHNeko

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Item spawns are biased towards the losing player. :V

Also food on medium is recommended.

I can go on about how food will help against heavy camping/planking. Try me.
 

Life

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Not for me, InCom :/
Mine is complaining about yourargumentisinvalid.com. I assume Tesh posted some pic from the site and that's what's triggering it. It's likely harmless, but irritating nonetheless.

Item spawns are biased towards the losing player. :V

Also food on medium is recommended.

I can go on about how food will help against heavy camping/planking. Try me.
1. Never proven.
2. I'm thinking food on high myself. Does somebody have math for this? Or maybe I should do a couple tests on my own?
3. Please do. Or better yet, don't. Save it, you'll need it soon.
 

Tesh

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Neko, post proof or stop saying that (I actually hope its true though). Its just like how in 08-09 people KEPT insisting that Pictochat had a 13 second timer between transformations when it didn't. Its horrible when people parrot things with no knowledge on the subject. I hope you DO know what you are talking about though.
 

z00ted

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I don't think I would really like this.

Sure - it could help planking... but apparently the person planking is being reward because he has the lead. We don't want it the other way around. Plus we just unified a 35 LGL on Metaknight and 50 LGL on all other characters. Food shouldn't even come into play.

I also do not like the "random" factor that could come into play while facing your opponent. Food will be the next "tripping" or "Pictochat" and a large amount of people already disagree with these topics.

One of the main things I hate about playing Peach are the randomized attacks she possesses. Random fsmash and turnip pulls. We keep it in the game because it's character specific. Food however is not and it just appears wherever it pleases. If you just so happen to be next to it, then good for you. This could really hinder competitive gameplay in my opinion.
 

Vyse

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It doesn't mitigate planking enough to warrant it. You can get a stock lead and it won't matter.

It would prevent planking in 1 stock matches though. Which I'd support. Inb4 what if I SD? It's brawl, recovery isn't too hard.
 

Tesh

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Eh, its difficult to convince people of anything I suppose.

1 stock matches would be great.....but mentioning that tends to kill the thread apparently.

You can SD in a 3 stock match and lose because of that. Especially with stalling. In a close game, killing yourself once is pretty much auto lose.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Not all food is equal, nor is where they spawn. Even if you can predict where they will spawn based on the lines you still can't predict which line it will spawn on.

Plus as I said not all food heals the same amount.
 

Tesh

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I cite precedence. We can't really complain about the random factor food presents when we allow a much more influential set of random events. One that we could just as easily "switch off" for competitive play. Some say we allow Pictochat, because its another "bad" MK stage, so why not allow items as a trade off for another overall benefit to gameplay?
 

Vyse

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I laugh at the randomness argument. It's random, but It's fair. And no where near as arbitrary as the LGL.

But I also think its only worth talking about in terms of adopting 1 stock matches. It's elegant and only as problematic as tripping is.

The thing is, with shorter matches, there is less chance to trip, but at the cost of tripping potentially being more damaging.

Every argument goes like that.

Ics only need one grab - you only need to avoid for one stock.

Look at it from a different perspective. Turn the negatives around.
 

Tesh

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ICs would suck with 1 stock food. That greedy ***** always takes it when I play items.

Its not really....more of a risk. Its less imo. 1 stock matches would allow more games in a set. But currently 1 stock going wrong is the loss of 1/3 of the set. Its much different when 1 stock is 1 game because 1 game is 1 stock.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Food can heal from a range of 3%, to the 12% Chicken Drum stick.

Randomness is a factor if it spawns randomly or if it favors a player like the Smash ball favoring the losing player.

For Picto...ummm I wouldn't just pass it off as fair randomness, there have been a few situations where even I would say it makes itself questionable.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Thanks John.

So we got 1% Strawberries to 12% Drum sticks.

Yeah I'm not seeing why food should be turned on based on the facts about it.
 

san.

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Food on low just seems like something that people should just try in matches. Some aspects (how obtrusive/random food is) are hard to quantify without looking at video/first-hand evidence.
 

Vyse

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Thanks John.

So we got 1% Strawberries to 12% Drum sticks.

Yeah I'm not seeing why food should be turned on based on the facts about it.
To mitigate excessive stalling, the greater issue, but only in the context of a 1 stock match. Otherwise I don't support it.

On one hand you have excessive ledge play and an arbitrary rule regulating an action as natural as grabbing a ledge.

On the other you have less stock and food. Quicker matches and a less arbitrary standard.

That it might favour the losing player can be tested, and if its true I don't see why that's a big deal. It will act ideally as it should, which is to give the winning player a reason to get off the ledge.

Idk, I mean, I like the current system too, but I've said elsewhere before that this seems like a much more elegant solution than an LGL. It comes down to how comfortable you are with another element of randomness.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Isn't it uncompedtive by nature to award someone for losing with healing...oh wait I play Lucario who get better the more he gets hit.

Well at least with him it's consistent with Food it's not really consistent with healing. And this applies to ledge play, do you think it's fair for let's say more food to spawn around the loser, and even if it isn't then it's random in location and effect.
 

Vyse

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My argument is that its fair because one way or another it's a potential solution enforced by the game instead of us.

Random or otherwise.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Well it's a potential solution, but it doesn't mean because it is that by default it's good for the game.

I'm not a fan of the solution being random in two different ways either.
 

Tesh

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If it favors a certain player its actually less random. In any case, if you are aggressive and push your opponent off stage or into juggles, he won't be able to access it before you anyway.
 
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