Incineroar Matchup Thread

[SxK]

As our beloved wrestle cat is explored, we should discuss matchups and optimal gameplay strategies. While its early in Ultimate's life right now, the sooner we start discussing the sooner we can start learning and adapting.

Starting with Inkling (for no arbitrary reason!)

Right now the MU seems either 60-40 or 55-45 Inkling favor. Their ability to camp us with our subpar movement and slowly rack damage should not be understated. The paint gun windbox is mostly unpunishable and the grenade forces us to play defensive.

Once the arena has been covered in paint, we move even SLOWER, giving Inkling an even larger advantage over us.

In neutral, our best option is to play safe with well spaced f-air and b-air. Inkling can dash in and our best option might be n-air OOS. Inkling's jab out speeds ours, so trying to win with jab isn't an option.

Off stage, we are easily edgeguarded by their quick b-air, and the up-b windbox can steal stocks.

Inkling's ability to quickly maneuver around the stage and always keep us under pressure make this matchup difficult but not unwinnable.

Our n-air OOS can disrupt low percent n-air combos, and our dash grab can shut down a dashdancing inkling. We can also 2-frame the up b, and combo into b-air or f-air for a fairly early kill at decent percents.

 

[grizby2]

I just got done playing a few matches against a R.O.B. with incineroar. and HOO BOY let me tell you, NOT FUN. lol

granted, this was my 5th or 6th time picking up incineroar and the R.O.B. was simply amazing. it took 6 matches to finally get a victory.

ROB's dash attack was a real pain, combined with the spin top and laser, he was able to zone me pretty hard. Nair was my absolute best friend. also, since he liked to spam projectiles, I capitalized every opportunity to use my counter for extra damage. slow run speed was a huge problem because rob can easily pivot an Fsmash against incineroar. i had to be EXTRA unpredictable when approaching near the ledge since being tossed off stage is basically like being little mac for the next 5 seconds. RECOVERY IS ABYSMAL! aim for the ledge and DO NOT land on the stage!

anyway, im happy to play with a bad match-up. it makes the victory much sweeter!

 

[SxK]

I just got done playing a few matches against a R.O.B. with incineroar. and HOO BOY let me tell you, NOT FUN. lol

granted, this was my 5th or 6th time picking up incineroar and the R.O.B. was simply amazing. it took 6 matches to finally get a victory.

ROB's dash attack was a real pain, combined with the spin top and laser, he was able to zone me pretty hard. Nair was my absolute best friend. also, since he liked to spam projectiles, I capitalized every opportunity to use my counter for extra damage. slow run speed was a huge problem because rob can easily pivot an Fsmash against incineroar. i had to be EXTRA unpredictable when approaching near the ledge since being tossed off stage is basically like being little mac for the next 5 seconds. RECOVERY IS ABYSMAL! aim for the ledge and DO NOT land on the stage!

anyway, im happy to play with a bad match-up. it makes the victory much sweeter!

I mained rob in brawl and briefly in s4, and I know haw hard this matchup can be. rob got harder to edgeguard since he can airdodge out of up b now, and his n-air is mad fast with a huge both of. the only thing rob suffers with is raw kill power. if you can avoid going off stage and maintain stage control this matchup should be a little easier.

We might be able to challenge n-air with utilt since it has invincibility on head

using revenge to counter lazer seems like a solid option since you don't get knocked back and the buff is nice for securing early kills. right now it's probably in robs favor since we can't chase and he can camp us pretty hard.

 

[*OCTO*]

for the Inkling matchup I feel like you really shouldn't sleep on Revenge. Inkling's grenade is slow and follows a predictable arc making it easy to Revenge on. Since we're slow and not likely to hit Inkling as many times as they will hit us, it can really make a difference to have that extra damage tacked on when we do land a blow. It can also be used to break out of some of the aerial combos.

 

[Azsy]

Nair feels like butter in the Ink MU, it really helps prevent them from closing in. Revenge is huge for stopping grenades and if you can catch a command grab with it up you can clip them at pretty low percent.

Anyone got anything for the Belmont MU?? This actually feels worse than any MU I've played in any smash title.

 

[HolyAarom]

Anyone got anything for the Belmont MU?? This actually feels worse than any MU I've played in any smash title.

Short hop can go over the forward tilt/smash and the cross. You can also short hop air dodge (both neutral and directional) through the cross. Properly timed Darkest Lariat can beat a Belmont d-air approach. Jab and f-tilt seem to beat Belmont f-smash, but not sure yet about f-tilt. While in the air, I find that staying under and doing u-airs can deal with the f/b-airs the Belmonts have.

I would try to Revenge any of the projectiles they throw out and see how they react to you having the boost. The boost stays for a long while while you're in neutral, so see if they throw out anything unsafe or commit to running. Once you get them off stage, they're pretty easy to gimp with f/b-airs.

 

[Browny]

Nair feels like butter in the Ink MU, it really helps prevent them from closing in. Revenge is huge for stopping grenades and if you can catch a command grab with it up you can clip them at pretty low percent.

Anyone got anything for the Belmont MU?? This actually feels worse than any MU I've played in any smash title.

It's rough... but you've got a ways to go before you reach puff vs snake in brawl, or just half the damn cast vs MK in brawl

 

[SxK]

Nair feels like butter in the Ink MU, it really helps prevent them from closing in. Revenge is huge for stopping grenades and if you can catch a command grab with it up you can clip them at pretty low percent.

Anyone got anything for the Belmont MU?? This actually feels worse than any MU I've played in any smash title.

This MU seems pretty difficult at first glance, but playing patiently and abusing their projectile for revenge is an easy way to keep the from abusing them. Close range the Belmont's don't have too much to play keep away, so you wanna definitely want to be the aggressor here. If you can force the Belmont's to the ledge the matchup gets much easier. our n-air is an EASY edgeguard against pretty much all of their options.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Okay... The Palutena matchup is by far the one I had the most trouble with. Her keep away game with Explosive Flame and Autoreticle is impossible to get past unless you're already to close her when she uses the former, and she's impossible to outspace, her Fair has less landing lag that ours and is practically un punishable on shield, and its impossible to space her out with SH fairs or bairs because her own Bair has invincibility.
Out of all the Palutena players I played against today I absolutely got my ass destroyed. I tried to keep playing with them and see if I can improve but Incineroar really gets mauled here. Not to mention she's way faster, has a better dash dance, and if she hits your with just one Nair or a down throw, you're in a for ride, you'll take exactly 50%.

 

[OldHickory]

So, K Rool feels like an extremely all-or-nothing matchup so far.

I've either utterly dominated all the K Rools I've fought with Incineroar, or died super early because I'm not sure how to get past the dumb cannon.
No in-between.

In the matchup though, Revenge has proven super useful, especially against the propeller pack. Because the propeller clips through the stage, it's really easy to get a pretty safe boost any time they recover low. Doesn't hurt that the crown and cannonball are also an easy and more potent Revenge target. I've busted his belly more than once with Revenge active. That sweet, sweet Shining Wizard f-smash and the big cat's own belly flop are so good for that. Bonus points on the belly flop for rocking the croc with his own move.

Both Alolan Whip followups have their uses, whether it be doing +50% with the lariat or setting up juggles and platform traps with the backdrop. Especially potent on platformed stages since it covers the entire platform, and there's a whole lot of crocodile to grab.

And as all heavies, K Rool is combo food. Down throw, d-tilt, and up-tilt starters are all pretty effective.

That said once again, I'm not sure how to not get just eaten if I get put on the ledge. While the clear answer is to recover high, that's just not always an option. I've managed to bop him with Cross Chop some, but that's been kinda unreliable.

 

[Azsy]

It's rough... but you've got a ways to go before you reach puff vs snake in brawl, or just half the damn cast vs MK in brawl

Haha I played MK in brawl so who knows, the belmont player at my locals is also just way better than me but practice makes perfect.

 

[Browny]

So, K Rool feels like an extremely all-or-nothing matchup so far.

I've either utterly dominated all the K Rools I've fought with Incineroar, or died super early because I'm not sure how to get past the dumb cannon.
No in-between.

In the matchup though, Revenge has proven super useful, especially against the propeller pack. Because the propeller clips through the stage, it's really easy to get a pretty safe boost any time they recover low. Doesn't hurt that the crown and cannonball are also an easy and more potent Revenge target. I've busted his belly more than once with Revenge active. That sweet, sweet Shining Wizard f-smash and the big cat's own belly flop are so good for that. Bonus points on the belly flop for rocking the croc with his own move.

Both Alolan Whip followups have their uses, whether it be doing +50% with the lariat or setting up juggles and platform traps with the backdrop. Especially potent on platformed stages since it covers the entire platform, and there's a whole lot of crocodile to grab.

And as all heavies, K Rool is combo food. Down throw, d-tilt, and up-tilt starters are all pretty effective.

That said once again, I'm not sure how to not get just eaten if I get put on the ledge. While the clear answer is to recover high, that's just not always an option. I've managed to bop him with Cross Chop some, but that's been kinda unreliable.

K.Rool vs Incineroar is the most fun I've ever had in 1vs1, its just absolutely brutal. You can break his belly in 1 attack and finish him sub 50%.

No cheesing, no chaingrabs. Just huge hits over and over until someone explodes.

 

[OldHickory]

Really doesn't hurt that a good chunk of media paints them as rivals, the classic mode mural for example.
Hell, at the tourney I went to last night, most of my success came from that wrestling plot line of a matchup.

But seriously though, what's a good way around the dumb ledge cannon?
If they're too close a getup attack works, but no one smart will do that.

 

[SxK]

Really doesn't hurt that a good chunk of media paints them as rivals, the classic mode mural for example.
Hell, at the tourney I went to last night, most of my success came from that wrestling plot line of a matchup.

But seriously though, what's a good way around the dumb ledge cannon?
If they're too close a getup attack works, but no one smart will do that.

you can up b at ledge and hold down to skip the ledge and punish him on commitment

 

[OldHickory]

you can up b at ledge and hold down to skip the ledge and punish him on commitment

Noted, very good to know, since literally every K Rool goes for their cannon at the ledge.
Does this still work on Battlefield, as I'd assume the platforms might catch you.
Just to be clear, if holding the ledge, would the input chain be down->Cross Chop, or something else?

My personal favorite way to circumvent it is on Isabelle rather than Incineroar, nabbing them with an off stage fishing rod done high, and then stage spiking them if I think they won't tech or just back throwing if they're at a kill percent.

 

[HolyAarom]

Does this still work on Battlefield, as I'd assume the platforms might catch you.
Just to be clear, if holding the ledge, would the input chain be down->Cross Chop, or something else?

I think Cross Chop is too short to reach the platform, but holding down lets you go through platforms during the diving motion of Cross Chop. Pressing down works while holding the ledge, but if you smash the stick it puts you into free fall. I would recommend pressing back (away from the platform) instead to let go.

 

[Whitephoenixace]

So how have you guys been dealing with ness as incine ? I feel like its a real annoying matchup. Especially considering pk fire and ness' aerials

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

I usually deal with Ness like I deal with most characters that have good spacing aerials they can throw out in Neutral ; which is Nairing them yourself from above.

PK Fire is super annoying I agree, but it's reactable. If they use it, you can avoid it by jumping and try Tomahawking them, although you have to hope they don't use a Nair or Fair as you approach. The problem with Incineroar is that he's so slow that it's rather easy for people to still react to you trying to tomahawk them, which is unfortunate.

Don't Revenge PK Fire, the lingering hitboxes will still hit you. If you get down throw'd, use a directional airdodge toward Ness to avoid followups.
You can still try to space out in Neutral with Fair, but usually it'll get eaten out by Ness's own Fair or Bair which are disjointed...
It's, imo, an even matchup. I lost and won an equal amount of matches about Nesses, its all about being patient, approaching them smartly and avoiding that PK. Fire.

 

[Whitephoenixace]

I usually deal with Ness like I deal with most characters that have good spacing aerials they can throw out in Neutral ; which is Nairing them yourself from above.

PK Fire is super annoying I agree, but it's reactable. If they use it, you can avoid it by jumping and try Tomahawking them, although you have to hope they don't use a Nair or Fair as you approach. The problem with Incineroar is that he's so slow that it's rather easy for people to still react to you trying to tomahawk them, which is unfortunate.

Don't Revenge PK Fire, the lingering hitboxes will still hit you. If you get down throw'd, use a directional airdodge toward Ness to avoid followups.
You can still try to space out in Neutral with Fair, but usually it'll get eaten out by Ness's own Fair or Bair which are disjointed...
It's, imo, an even matchup. I lost and won an equal amount of matches about Nesses, its all about being patient, approaching them smartly and avoiding that PK. Fire.

Ok thanks. But what do u mean by tomahawking ?

Edit: ok i just searched it up and its a jump to bait the opp into shielding

 

[strike42]

Yeh thomahawk is just empty jump grab, idk how that term even became a thing.

 

[NettleTea]

Does anyone have advice for the Chrom matchup?

 

[KingAcid]

Okay... The Palutena matchup is by far the one I had the most trouble with. Her keep away game with Explosive Flame and Autoreticle is impossible to get past unless you're already to close her when she uses the former, and she's impossible to outspace,

I am living with a Palutena main. Here's what I got for you.
For explosive flame:
If its smashed (Far away): If in front of you, you can just jump over it and start closing the gap w/o punish
If behind you (whiffed) its free punish.

If its tilted (close):
Unless you get hit, you're always able to punish it by jumping over it if in front of you or anything if behind you.

For auto reticle:
If you're far enough, free boost from Revenge.
If closer, with a good timing you can jump to dodge the 1st magic bullet + fair, it will cancel the 2 others w/o taking damage.

As for aerials , you can either use your DSpecial, NSpecial or just fake out a challenge (jump in/drift back w/o attacking) by spacing just enough to make her wiff her (probably) Bair.

EDIT: I am usually able to counter the whole duration of Explosive Flame.

 

[Kuragari]

Okay... The Palutena matchup is by far the one I had the most trouble with. Her keep away game with Explosive Flame and Autoreticle is impossible to get past unless you're already to close her when she uses the former, and she's impossible to outspace, her Fair has less landing lag that ours and is practically un punishable on shield, and its impossible to space her out with SH fairs or bairs because her own Bair has invincibility.
Out of all the Palutena players I played against today I absolutely got my *** destroyed. I tried to keep playing with them and see if I can improve but Incineroar really gets mauled here. Not to mention she's way faster, has a better dash dance, and if she hits your with just one Nair or a down throw, you're in a for ride, you'll take exactly 50%.

I played a couple Palutena online and just got absolutely destroyed when using Incineroar. She's his hard counter pick maybe? There was pretty much nothing I could do against her zoning and spacing.

Does anyone have advice for the Chrom matchup?

Just have to be patient and punish Chrom from what Ive found. He has no range either but most of his attacks seem to have high priority. I found the most success with Incine's throws.

 

[Dumbleydore94]

Is there any advice on a fox matchup

 

[soyperson]

One of my friends 1v1'd me recently- he played Lucas, I played Incineroar. As one could assume it ended poorly for me

 

[NettleTea]

I played a couple Palutena online and just got absolutely destroyed when using Incineroar. She's his hard counter pick maybe? There was pretty much nothing I could do against her zoning and spacing.



Just have to be patient and punish Chrom from what Ive found. He has no range either but most of his attacks seem to have high priority. I found the most success with Incine's throws.

That's basically the conclusion I came to. It's just kind of a boring matchup. Thanks

 

[KingAcid]

Got some other tips for Palutena match up:
Lot of her attack send you upward or diagonally, making recovering a bit easier but, recovering high against her isn't a good idea since her up smash will annihilate ours Special-Moves. Here's how I recover against her:

1. Very high with Cross-Chop -> Revenge/Air-Dodge (Outside camera line )
2. Stage height (Sweetspot the ledge with Alolan whip so her F-Tilts can't hit you)
3. Low with Cross-Chop or upward air-dodge. Also, better trying to keep 1 jump when recovering low, he D-Tilt will most likely hit you during cross-chop,
4. sending you straight sideways.

In aerial combat:

You can challenge her Fair
You cannot challenge her Bair that was obvious
You can challenge her Dair, missing the good timing end up in a trade
You can challenge her Uair but need a good timing and will most likely trade anyway.
If you are getting juggled, Air-dodge will most likely not help you, neither will Cross Chop, her Uair win against it. Use Revenge if it seems you can't get out of it. After the revenge, the palutena will be in place for a Fair, you can either try a trade with your own Fair, or Cross Chop which can get her depending on how close/far she spaced for her Fair.

In ground combat:

Use Revenge on her Special attack and mix up with SH Fair and Alolan whip. If he approach with aerials you can Shield -> Darkest Lariat to power through her Nair -> Jab. You can also use Revenge but will get predictable. Up-Tilt can also be a good option if she approach from a full hop since the head in intargetable.

For combos:
D-Tilt -> Fair/Nair under 50-60% + U-Tilt if not DI or DI in at low percent.
U-Tilt -> U-Air -> U-Air juggle if she try to challenge it. Stop working around the 50%
D-Throw -> SH Fair at max 25%. Under 55% follow up with Fair/U/Air depending on DI.

Edge Guard:

B/c of her warp its pretty hard to guard the edge against her, but it doesnt mean we have to give it up for free. You need to keep the pressure on as long as possible to force a mistake on her part.

You can either use Rising/Falling D-Air to guard the ledge in case she miss it by a frame or two. I prefer Nair since its hitbox last 20 frame vs Dair 5 frame.
If you place yourself in the middle of her get-up and roll, D-Smash will cover: Get-Up, Roll, Get-up attack and Drop->Rising Fair if she get on stage. Placing yourself on the ledge, D-Smash will cover: Get-up, Get-up attack and jump. But will leave you vulnerable to Drop->Rising Uair. You can also SH->Alolan Whip if you get a read on her jump.

For kill option:

The % aren't accurate since I don't always pay attention to my opponent % when I kill unless its very early or 100%+
I am playing against a human so its most likely with DI/SDI unless he's messing up.

If you have revenge -10 to -15% for kill depending on which move you countered
Haven't really checked for stage specific but we mostly play on BF/FD/Midgard

B-Throw: Around 110% on ledge
U-Throw: Around 135% on stage (Earlier on platform, good kill option if you get a grab in the middle of the stage/ on a platform)
F-Throw: I almost never use it for kill but I believe its near U-Throw kill range.
D-Throw: Follow up with fair at 55% if she DI away can kill on ledge.

F-Smash: Below 55% on ledge
D-Smash: Below 90% on ledge
U-Smash: Never killed with it, horrible move in my opinion.

F-Tilt(Sweet spot): Around 100% from ledge, can kill at 110% from middle of stage and no DI
D-Tilt: Never killed with it.
U-Tilt: Never killed with it.

U-Air: Around 120% from a full hop from center platform
Bair: Around 110% from ledge
Nair(Early frames): around 130% from ledge
Fair: 80% off stage

Darkest Lariat: I heard it can kill at 105% but I have hard time getting an opening to use it
Alolan Whip:
Whiffed: Never kill with it but can set up a follow up if off stage
Over the back: Never killed with it but I heard it can kill around 150%
Perfect hit: Around 120% center of stage
Cross-Chop: 90% on Pokemon stadium platform.

EDIT:
Forgot OoS option:

Dash Attack: I usually shield grab since its laggy enough to always connect
Nair: Her landing lag is low, you need to Darkest Lariat otherwise you will get caught by her jab follow up.
Other Aerials: Shield grab if close enough, Darkest Lariat if too far for shield grab, any aerial beside Dair if too far or you can go for Alolan Whip/Cross Chop if you hard read a roll. If she comes from on top, challenge with U-tilt since your head is intangible during the move.

Another thing I forgot to mention. [This is a fact] Our sweet cat is one of the slowest of every character (Slowest running speed until the plant come's out), meaning [This is my opinion] you better get good at reading your opponent or match against good player will get hard quite fast.

 

[Jonat]

I've found that some practice in parrying can go along way in a lot of tough match-ups. Revenge is a good defensive option, but it's more of a set-up than an actual punish, and the ending lag usually prevents a good punish.

-For keep-away characters like Samus or Belmonts, the frame advantage you get from a parry lets you start to close the distance with dashes. It'll preserve your shield, projectiles are really easy to time, and you can inch closer to them and get close enough to pressure. The time Incineroar spends taunting/celebrating when the counter is successful is spent moving closer instead, so parrying projectiles can be a huge help to cover that speed weakness.
-For characters with range advantages like Lucina, Revenge is a good enough alternative, but I've noticed that a few good parries is enough to make the opponent re-think their style, so if you're having trouble with the moves/approach they're favoring, you can scare them into favoring something else with a few good parries. You don't even need a good punish to make this happen against some players.
-For characters that are fast, or have multi-hit moves like Ness or Pichu, Revenge is usually going to be better because parrying multiple hits isn't very practical, and the interrupt is the best option against it.

Most importantly, it'll give you so many defensive options against characters that typically give Incineroar trouble, and it'll make characters that can normally abuse Incineroar's range and speed be a lot more careful. The time between when you can parry in training mode, and when it becomes practical in-game, is incredibly, surprisingly small. I think it's worth trying in some of these tough matchups we're talking about to see if it changes how they play or not. Especially since the viability of parrying increases as you get more experience in a matchup and get the hang of their timings.

I've played against a lot of Ness, Peach, Young Link, Lucina, Cloud, and Pichu; I'll try and write about those later.

 

[Dachocaholic]

I’m having a really hard time against Lucas, and his PK freeze and fire. Anyone have any tips on how to deal with him?

 

[TheSeelGoesMeow]

Insineroar is great against lightweights however zoners destroy him also slow fighters I guess Close range fighters can be defeated easily with Revenge, side b, up b, and grabs. Try up throw Up B or Lariats. Fighters with telegraphed attacks like Falcon punch or limit

Good Matchups


Bad Matchups
​

 

[soyperson]

Had some scuffles with a Lv9 PPlant CPU last night- discovered that the hitstun on pplant's side special pretty much negates an Alolan Whip. Try throws and lariats as a sort of "keep off" defense, and Cross Chop as a good launcher. Also, pplant has killer recovery with its uspec, as well as fast fall speed, so use that to your advantage. If it comes down on you with a nair, counter with Revenge and then tilt.

 

[ItsASquid]

I want to go back to an earlier point. I can't see a single way Incineroar can win the Palutena matchup. Stage covering projectiles, shuts down our approaches, captures us in combos too easily. Unless the skill gap is huge, Incineroar loses 9/10 times.

 

[soyperson]

I want to go back to an earlier point. I can't see a single way Incineroar can win the Palutena matchup. Stage covering projectiles, shuts down our approaches, captures us in combos too easily. Unless the skill gap is huge, Incineroar loses 9/10 times.

There are very few solid ways to counter Palutena that don't involve faking them out and pulling some advanced reads. The best advice I can offer is to get in close and chip away (tilts, neutral special, side special) while avoiding damage as much as possible- don't be afraid to guard. Take some hits with Revenge to build power, then kill with Cross Chop or a back throw. A well-placed down smash will also do the trick.

 

[Dumbleydore94]

Let's talk about the other kind of matchup, who's a good secondary character to use along side a main incineroar? Personally I use R.O.B because i find he checks a lot of incineroars poor matchups, at least the ones I have issues with.

 

[soyperson]

Let's talk about the other kind of matchup, who's a good secondary character to use along side a main incineroar? Personally I use R.O.B because i find he checks a lot of incineroars poor matchups, at least the ones I have issues with.

Typically I prefer Ice Climbers or Piranha Plant. Versatile range-based fighters that boast high mobility and flexible recoveries.

 

[Z1GMA]

I want to go back to an earlier point. I can't see a single way Incineroar can win the Palutena matchup. Stage covering projectiles, shuts down our approaches, captures us in combos too easily. Unless the skill gap is huge, Incineroar loses 9/10 times.

It's a tough MU indeed. One area where Inci can truly mess with her tho, is when she wants to recover and grab the ledge. Nair and DL stays out for hours.
A solid way to tack on damage or get kills.

 

[Dumbleydore94]

Typically I prefer Ice Climbers or Piranha Plant. Versatile range-based fighters that boast high mobility and flexible recoveries.

That's a good idea, I've been using R.O.B and Wii fit trainer. I've been wanting to try out ice climbers but I can never get the recovery to work right.

 

[OldHickory]

A secondary for the cat that I go with is Robin.
Still slow and all that, but the powerful range game and good power work.

Best idea? No.
Best for me? Yes.

 

[soyperson]

Best for me? Yes.

That's all that really matters!

 

[Dumbleydore94]

A secondary for the cat that I go with is Robin.
Still slow and all that, but the powerful range game and good power work.

Best idea? No.
Best for me? Yes.

That's a good idea. I used robin a bit in smash 4 I might have to pick her up again. Lately though I have been finding link (old) to be a great secondary with everything on him having decent range and he hits hard enough to kill at decent percentage.