In PM, How is Peach Different From Melee?

[SOLAR]

1. Side B buff
2. Sequential F-Smash (nonrandom)
3. Up B physics alteration
4. Uptilt buff

What else do you guys know that's changed? I'd be interested to hear more from the other people who decide to play Peach in PM. For whatever reason, she seems a bit unpopular (which is good for us in tournament!).

 

[Kally Wally]

She was buffed a bit by a universal change - you can act out of a ledge jump very quickly, meaning its easy to float at stage-height from the ledge. I don't know how substantial that is, since I don't really play Peach, but it's there.

 

[SOLAR]

Interesting!

 

[White-Peach]

Glide tossing, implemented in brawl, horizontal movement nerfed, vertical movement now exists and is kinda crazy. Toad's spores now have crazy shield damage and apparently he breaks shields now, but it's more of a team thing? Shoulderpad upsmash hits now take priority, which is a good thing (if enemy is hit by shoulderpad sweetspot and regular hand hitbox, the sweetspot registers as the hitbox and you get more dmg?/knockback). RyokoYaksa told me so~

 

[RyokoYaksa]

As I said before, Toad breaking shields is not actually a difference from Melee. Toad being safe when he hits is, though.

 

[SOLAR]

I've used toad less than 10 times in my 10 years playing this character.

 

[Kati]

Turnips don't collide with each other in P:M. In melee one could toss turnips straight up, and they would impede each other's descent once they begin hitting one another.

 

[White-Peach]

As I said before, Toad breaking shields is not actually a difference from Melee. Toad being safe when he hits is, though.

I don't play this game!

Peach can't protect a bob-omb in her shield anymore, if attacked, it will blow up as it does in Brawl.

 

[DownWitDaWaveDash]

You can glidetoss with peach? I tried Project M for the first time today, and I couldn't do it at all D:

Upthrow chaingrab doesnt work on falco anymore

 

[Kally Wally]

Brawl-style glide tossing is much less effective in PM. Try air dodging in any direction and throwing an item just as you start - Aerial Glide Toss.

 

[Smo]

I don't know if this is just me, but her chain up throw seems wayyyy easier in Project M. I'm not sure what causes it. Maybe more IASA frames on up throw? Maybe longer grab range? Just seems so easy.

 

[White-Peach]

Toad's spores now have crazy shield damage and apparently he breaks shields now, but it's more of a team thing? Shoulderpad upsmash hits now take priority, which is a good thing (if enemy is hit by shoulderpad sweetspot and regular hand hitbox, the sweetspot registers as the hitbox and you get more dmg?/knockback).

As I said before, Toad breaking shields is not actually a difference from Melee. Toad being safe when he hits is, though.

So... this happened last night!

http://www.twitch.tv/jcaesar/c/3604694

 

[deadjames]

Brawl-style glide tossing is much less effective in PM. Try air dodging in any direction and throwing an item just as you start - Aerial Glide Toss.

That kind of depends on the character, Diddy and R.O.B. both have amazing grounded glide tosses, Peach's is less so, but it's still a viable option.

 

[Kally Wally]

Yeah, that's very true. I wrote that post during a time when I didn't know how to glide toss.

As a side note, Mewtwo's backward roll is kinda good for glide tossing.

 

[Nemy]

L.I.F.T.

It was a brawl technique that lets you cancel your default jump from ledge with a float. Hold jump and down when on the ledge to do it. It opens up whole new options for Peach. I like to LIFT nair when the opponent is close to the ledge. It also helps with edgegaurding. If they try to land on stage to avoid your edge-hog you can LIFT nair/fair or even LIFT>land grab/Usmash.

Cool stuff.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I'm surprised Peach's DACUS hasn't been mentioned at all. She has one, and a pretty good USmash, I thought more people would use it.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

So... this happened last night!

http://www.twitch.tv/jcaesar/c/3604694

That is quite literally the biggest F-You I've ever seen in Smash. Kudos.

 

[deadjames]

@ Thane of Blue Flames Her DACUS is pretty hard though she has one of the hardest ones in the game, I still can't pull it off consistently, yet Ike is my secondary and I can do his no problem even though I never use it since QD usmash is infinitely better.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

@ Thane of Blue Flames even though I never use it since QD usmash is infinitely better.

Off-topic, but this is ... quite incorrect. DACUS combos out of FThrow for percents/DI/fallspeeds that QD Usmash would have missed entirely by going too far. It's actually one of Ike's near-guaranteed combos on Peach at mid-percents and can KO under the right circumstances (stage, making the Peach player DI bad through throw mix-ups, etc.) No tool any character has is truly useless outside of very specific cases (like Falcon Punch) and Ike's DACUS is definitely not one of those write-off moves.

Neither is Peach's, and I encourage you to find uses for it once you get the consistency down.

 

[deadjames]

I'm pretty sure those combos would work with QD usmash since fthrow can also net you a QD regrab, also I didn't say Peach's DACUS wasn't useful, just that it's very difficult compared to a lot of other characters' because the timing is so strict.

 

[Nkguy01]

She has more mobility off the ledge...In Melee, you had to lightly bair off the ledge to edge guard and umbrella your way back on the ledge.. In pm, you can pretty much go all ham, and bair, and easily make it back. That's not to say that you can't get punished for missing by a smarter opponent. It's just a good option now.

 

[G13_Flux]

Glide tossing, implemented in brawl, horizontal movement nerfed, vertical movement now exists and is kinda crazy. Toad's spores now have crazy shield damage and apparently he breaks shields now, but it's more of a team thing? Shoulderpad upsmash hits now take priority, which is a good thing (if enemy is hit by shoulderpad sweetspot and regular hand hitbox, the sweetspot registers as the hitbox and you get more dmg?/knockback). RyokoYaksa told me so~

Wait, horizontal movement nerf? And what do you mean vertical movement exists? Were you taking about this in relation to glide tossing? And the shoulder hitbox with the smash is the sour spot, while the hand is the sweet spot. your post just left me a bit confused sorry.

Also, how long is peachs Dacus? I actually never experimented with it.

 

[deadjames]

It's about two character lengths long I'd say.

 

[G13_Flux]

Yeah I messed around with it last night. It seems that it makes it a lot easier to hit the sweet spot, which makes it a useful tech chase, and it might even be fairly reliable out of a dthrow. Also, the timing for hers is the same for everyone else. The only thing that would change it is if you used an attack button to do the dacus vs the grab button. That would give you one more frame, but that's also universal

 

[deadjames]

Personally, I always use the attack button for DACUS'

 

[PKIvysaur]

other than explosions and wall bombing, the peach bomber wasn't buffed was it...?

 

[deadjames]

It goes significantly farther, and has more knockback. Oh and let's not forget you can taunt on hit with it, which is clearly the most important change about it.

 

[Cowsaymeow]

Did peachs Dsmash get nerfed or something from melee to PM? My friends keep swearing to me that it's easier to punish since they ***** about that move (and peach in general) but when I fight Peach it seems to be the same deal to me. I use CF btw

 

[deadjames]

The frame data for dsmash is the same as Melee, however the damage was nerfed to compensate for the fact that multi-hit moves stale differently in PM than they do in Melee. So basically even though the damage was technically reduced, you essentially get the same results as Melee dsmash.

 

[Cowsaymeow]

The frame data for dsmash is the same as Melee, however the damage was nerfed to compensate for the fact that multi-hit moves stale differently in PM than they do in Melee. So basically even though the damage was technically reduced, you essentially get the same results as Melee dsmash.

Yeah I thought it was the same. My friends swear so much that it got nerfed heavily and they won't agree with me that it's the same lol.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

In the Yoshi boards there was some discussion about an instant double jump aerial autocancel on the first frame as OoS option. iirc you have to press jump and c-stick down on the same frame, then any aerial with autocancel and down. Not really sure though how it worked.

 

[thesage]

The problem with Peach in p:m is that she's exactly the same as in melee for the most part and then you have all these new and revamped characters that know how to fight you and you have no idea how to fight against them. Her matchups against the old melee high tiers are better because of her slight buffs, but a lot of these new characters are trouble for her (Charizard O_o)

 

[Daftatt]

I've used toad less than 10 times in my 10 years playing this character.

In P:M against squirtle, when squirtle does his waterfall to recover, use toad, even if he sweetspots you'll still probably knock him back. Super annoying for a squirtle player.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

The problem with Peach in p:m is that she's exactly the same as in melee for the most part and then you have all these new and revamped characters that know how to fight you and you have no idea how to fight against them. Her matchups against the old melee high tiers are better because of her slight buffs, but a lot of these new characters are trouble for her (Charizard O_o)

You are right for the most part but Peach has also a few tools in Melee that didn't makes sense to use against Melee characters but can be great against the new characters, so they also don't know the matchup completely. For example the Toad which is legit edgeguarding against Wolf's side-b, Squirtle's up-b, Diddy's up-b when he can't sweetspot etc.
Also really good turnip usage seems to be also one of the key factors in the new MUs, especially since you now have glide and aerial glide tosses.

 

[deadjames]

The problem with Peach in p:m is that she's exactly the same as in melee for the most part

She's not though, she probably got more buffs than any of the other Melee high tiers, she easily outclasses the majority of the roster, I'd put her somewhere in the top 15.

 

[Fernando Locon]

Her Forward Throw along with her Ariels (Except Down Ariel) are no longer strong like they were in melee

 

[1FD]

Maybe characters are generally bigger (the ones you'll face more often) but they're still really strong.

DACUS is legit. Couldn't tell you how amazing it is because it's too amazing to be true.

Toad is great for projectile campers too.

 

[Fernando Locon]

Maybe characters are generally bigger (the ones you'll face more often) but they're still really strong.

DACUS is legit. Couldn't tell you how amazing it is because it's too amazing to be true.

Toad is great for projectile campers too.

Really I thought they were like in Brawl .

 

[rje457]

Another difference is shield stun and how to act out of shields. In P.M. you have less shield stun so if you approach with a float cancelled fair in Melee and hit the shield.....if done correctly you can grab, where as in P.M. if you approach with a float cancelled fair and try to grab, you will get punished so instead go for an immediate jab or dsmash because they protect you and are faster.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Eh? Peach still has frame advantage on float canceled aerials besides uair, which is -2 iirc (not that you should be using uair on shields regardless). Pretty sure it's no more or less advantageous than it was in Melee.

Her Forward Throw along with her Ariels (Except Down Ariel) are no longer strong like they were in melee

They are, you're just not predominantly fighting a bunch of lightweights with **** recoveries anymore. People say the same thing about Sheik's fair and that's also identical.