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In a big rut, not really getting anywhere

permafros7

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
34
Hello, I've been in a pretty big rut with my Lucario play to the point that my Wolf is now at the same level as my Lucario with so much less effort/time put into him. What should I be doing differently, and what can I do to get out of this rut?
 

Denjinpachi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
335
Location
Whirl Islands
Try practicing and applying different strategies. Learn how the neutral is played in different MU's for Lucario against the whole case. It sounds more like you've hit a routine where you only do the same things with Lu, so its keeping you in the same place, as compared to a different character that you have less experience with which lets you try things in different ways. If worse comes to worse, try going back to square one, and figure out what you need to work on, and improve from there. After a good while of analyzing what you need to work on, you can break out of this rut, or break past whatever wall you've hit.
 

permafros7

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
34
My practice partners do say I do the same thing a lot, so that might be part of it. And how would I go about going back to square one?
 

Denjinpachi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
335
Location
Whirl Islands
figure out your characters basics. What best works for a general spacing tool, pokes, grabs, follow ups, everything. Square one. Even if you have to find out what color you like the most. start fleshing out your character again.
 

permafros7

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
34
Spacing tools: Neutral B, SHFFL forward air, dtilt? Lucario is quite limited in this department.

Pokes: Neutral B, tip of dtilt, tip of fair

Grabs/Throws: Uthrow/dthrow DI mixup, up throw can lead to a fair string, tatsu, bair, up air into ESC uair/tatsu at kill percents. Dthrow can set up fairs, tatsu.

Neutral: Running around, livin' on a prayer.

Anything else?
 

Jacuzzi

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Dec 4, 2014
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65
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South Carolina
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Spacing tools: Neutral B, SHFFL forward air, dtilt? Lucario is quite limited in this department.

Pokes: Neutral B, tip of dtilt, tip of fair

Grabs/Throws: Uthrow/dthrow DI mixup, up throw can lead to a fair string, tatsu, bair, up air into ESC uair/tatsu at kill percents. Dthrow can set up fairs, tatsu.

Neutral: Running around, livin' on a prayer.

Anything else?
I'll add some things you may haven't realized/thought about.
Spacing: Moonwalk Bairs, reverse UTilt in case they get too close behind you, and you can regain positioning with B-Reversed/Wave-Bounced Aura Sphere.
Grabs: UThrow>UTilt>Re-Grab works amazing against spacies and most of the rest of the cast. Just experiment with it.
DThrow>Fair chains work well. Another is DThrow>Fair>ASC>DTilt and you can go from there.
Pokes: You covered most of the pokes, but don't forget that FTilt can poke, too. It's situational, but FTilt can lead into some nasty combos if landed. Ftilt>DSmash>DownB Cancel>DSmash/FSmash/UTilt can work on lower percents to rack up major damage. FTilt>SideB works great, too.

Also, Lucarion can chain-grab with both of his throws, if I'm correct. So, mess around with those. Also, you can TurnaroundB your ASC, so you can mix that into combos as well. Good luck!
 

permafros7

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
34
How do you follow up throws? They're so laggy.

Also what about neutral? I kinda live on a prayer, hoping a hitbox I throw out lands.
 

KACHOW!!!

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I don't know the first thing about lucario (ok i know he can any move into any other move by expending an aura), but I used to main Link and then I started trying snake because I like snake as a character and my friends kept telling me for months "Just quit using snake. You're way better with link anyway" and now I'm better with snake than I ever was with link. You should start by watching good lucario players and learning the basics of lucario. Maybe what I'm about to say is irrelevant to other characters and the players who main them, but I think Snake is similar to Lucario in that snake has very specific setups and situations he's trying to create, thats his game plan, the only way he can win: His wierd character specific set-ups. Every character has tools that they can use that work well when employed effectively, and it sounds like you've got some of the tools in your lucario box, but you also sound like you're not aware/ don't know about all of lucario's tools. So my suggestion would be to watch top level lucario mains play the character, and look for combos/techniques you don't use. Slowly watch and rewatch every part of lucario play you don't look at and automatically say to yourself: "I know how to do that/ I'm already doing that". Ask lucario mains in your local area (if you have a local tourney scene) for bread and butter combos (Stuff that works well, stuff that makes PM Lucario what he is). If you study and try to expand your knowledge base and practice what you already know and practice the new techniques and incorporate them into what you're already doing then you'll improve. I love snake because he's not like any other character, he's got special gimmicks that when used effectively are deadly and make my opponent go "WTF JUST HAPPENED, I DIED AND THERE WAS NOTHING I COULD DO!!!". Obviously there was something they could do, but that's how we all feel when we've been beaten by a wide margin. I have no Idea whatsoever how to play lucario, basically at all. Sometimes I play him in a friendly and I'm basically just trying to land fairs and Dairs, and praying that my opponent will magically find himself in my off stage side b (that is the move that meteors your opponent, Right?). Permafros7 , what you need to is be the exact opposite of me. I am ignorant. You need to be educated.

Thats only half of what you need to do. This is the other 50%:

Permafros7, you have a new rule when you play PM: There is no character select screen. Not ever. There is only you moving your hand over Lucario, dropping the symbol on it, and waiting for your opponent to hit start and bring you to the stage select screen. You should probably, for about 3 months I'd say, not ever ever ever ever pick another character besides lucario. This is crucial because you'll be stuck in a solitary environment with your dear friend Lucario. You are lucario. Your hands are Lucario. You eat, sleep and breath lucario. When you're not at your Wii and you're at work or school you're sitting around fantasizing about lucario. I like to make a lot of Snake Playlists on spotify. This is a snake playlist I made. https://open.spotify.com/user/1227369675/playlist/7nAHWoTakAwPvRL8j7tcBD

It puts me into the headspace of my favorite character, My god, my one, my only: Snake. I don't play super smash brothers anymore, I play snake. You don't play super smash brothers anymore: YOU PLAY SUPER LUCARIO BROTHERS BRAWL: PROJECT LUCARIO!

In a few months, ask your friends/ people at your local tournaments if you've improved, and there answer will be a resounding YES.
 

CND

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
74
Sorry for the incoming all of text...

I am actually kind of surprised to see this post, because I have seen and in some cases replied to your gameplay critiques on reddit and I felt if anything that your gameplay showed great signs of improvement and potential to improve further.

I think you can get more productive responses if you could mention what you feel is limited about your Lucario gameplay and what you think your Wolf does better than your Lucario and vice-versa.

So, I would speculate without the knowledge requested above that maybe it is matchup inexperience that might be a potential reason for feeling your Wolf is on par with Lucario. Although it is true of every character to some extent, Lucario is heavily dependent on knowing how to combo your opponent as soon as you get a hit. That sounds over simplistic, but what I mean by that is with Lucario you to have an extremely good idea how your combos will progress with a confirmed hit and with other characters you can have similar success by having a general idea with more time allowed to react. So, say a Lucario player lands a hit on Luigi and he has about 30%, and the player tries to dash attack -> down tilt -> down smash. The Lucario player has seen this combo have very effective results against Captain Falcon but as they would find out, Luigi is nowhere near the combo weight of Falcon. Probably only the dash attack will land, because Luigi pops up to high due to his weight and floatiness and the opportunity to deal a lot of damage has been wasted and Lucario will probably be punished for whiffing. Captain Falcon and Luigi are kind of extreme examples and easier to identify but some knowing for example that Samus and ROB are floaty heavy characters and Diddy is a light semi-fast faller is essential to success with Lucario. I think it's something that easier to learn with experience rather trying to commit the fast fall vs. weight chart to memory. This makes ASC really good for matchup inexperience because it is easier to mitigate combo weight inexperience with ASC combos, but it's also for this reason I generally suggest to newer Lucario players to ignore ASC until they are extremely comfortable with magic series combos against all of the characters.

So, I mention that because I don't think it is as imperative to other characters to know combo weights as it is with Lucario. I think with most other characters there is more time to react to where your opponent is sent from a hit and less concern about adhering to a flow chart. I don't really know Wolf well enough to make an accurate judgement, but maybe something about him is easier to pick up naturally although Wolf doesn't come to mind when I think of easier characters to learn. I also suspect that Lucario's weaknesses are more pronounced than Wolf's. It feels like without the experience that Lucario struggles with a majority of the cast, specifically floaties. I think that that perception is changed with more experience and matchup (I wouldn't know because I am not at that point).


Permafros7, you have a new rule when you play PM: There is no character select screen. Not ever. There is only you moving your hand over Lucario, dropping the symbol on it, and waiting for your opponent to hit start and bring you to the stage select screen. You should probably, for about 3 months I'd say, not ever ever ever ever pick another character besides lucario. This is crucial because you'll be stuck in a solitary environment with your dear friend Lucario. You are lucario. Your hands are Lucario. You eat, sleep and breath lucario. When you're not at your Wii and you're at work or school you're sitting around fantasizing about lucario. I like to make a lot of Snake Playlists on spotify. This is a snake playlist I made. https://open.spotify.com/user/1227369675/playlist/7nAHWoTakAwPvRL8j7tcBD

It puts me into the headspace of my favorite character, My god, my one, my only: Snake. I don't play super smash brothers anymore, I play snake. You don't play super smash brothers anymore: YOU PLAY SUPER LUCARIO BROTHERS BRAWL: PROJECT LUCARIO!

In a few months, ask your friends/ people at your local tournaments if you've improved, and there answer will be a resounding YES.
So, I agree and disagree with this. I think this is usually the best thing to do when trying to learn a character, but from my experience I find this inaccurate. So yes, you do want to play Lucario a lot more, but I see a lot of value in playing other characters. In my experience (I'm nowhere near a top level player or anything), it is really easy to ignore some fundamentals in smash when playing Lucario, because Lucario has a lot of character specific stuff and it's easy to think that the combo will be the answer to everything. I started with Project M and started with Lucario which I don't think I would recommend but anyways instead of learning important things like DI, wavedashing, wavelanding, OoS options and such I always sought to find workarounds with Lucario. I used to figure all I had to do was work on my combo game and get it to a point where I could just ignore those kind of things. It's easy to look at Lucario's wavedash from an ignorant standpoint and say how could this ever be useful, and other than Up Smash his OoS options are not great, but these things are super important. So, I started to play other characters more extensively in order to get in the habit of doing these things. Since this is still an ongoing thing for me I typically play characters like Mario, Marth, and Bowser to get in the habit of SHFFL, wavedashing, wavelanding, and OoS options then I try to play Lucario and start incorporating these habits. The other characters I play are probably more fundamentally solid than Lucario, but I am really confident in the Lucario specific stuff and I think I am getting towards applying those things to Lucario.

So, this goes back to my request for your to think about (and hopefully mention here) what are the weaknesses of your Lucario play and what does your Wolf do better than your Lucario. I can respond more if you can write a bit on that.
 

permafros7

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
34
I think my Wolf allows me to rely on winning neutral more. I play Lucario with the assumption that I will only win neutral four times, so I try to go for a 0 to death combo whenever possible, hence why I lab a **** ton. Furthermore, Wolf covers a lot of Lucario's bad matchups (plumbers/floaties), but I still have bad matchups into Samus, Fox, and Falco (who should I play in these situations, btw). Furthermore, I can, vs most of the cast, wall people out with lasers as Wolf and then pick my approach based on laser play (hence why I suck at playing vs faster characters where lasering is a lot more dangerous, e.g. Wolf dittos). For my Wolf, I'm trying to become less laser reliant, trying to get flash setups, and incorporating waveshines/multishines more into my gameplay.

With Lucario, I can't pick my fights. You don't win neutral on Lucario, your opponent throws it away. On Wolf, I can force approaches and sometimes overwhelm people based on pure techskill. Basically, on Wolf, I can force my agenda down my opponent's throat, I can't with Lucario. I don't have to think about my opponent as Wolf (unless it's vs a Falco).

I also get a lot more frustrated when I'm playing Lucario. If I lose as Wolf, I'm like w/e. On Lucario, **** man, I've torn a hole in wallpaper from throwing a controller, tbh I'm surprised my controller hasn't shattered from all the times I've spiked it/thrown it. I don't play this game to have any fun, I play strictly for winning, which is my sole focus. I want 0 to deaths on some of the high PR players, I want to be able to play a set, then make a highlight reel from that one set. I want my opponent's resolve shattered after Game 1.
 

CND

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
74
I think my Wolf allows me to rely on winning neutral more. I play Lucario with the assumption that I will only win neutral four times, so I try to go for a 0 to death combo whenever possible, hence why I lab a **** ton.
Yah, Wolf and the other spacies definitely have a more apparent neutral game than Lucario. Winning neutral four times is definitely the idea although extremely unlikely in practice. As you have experienced, it takes a lot of practice and labbing to be able to reliably combo against every character and practicing neutral is just as difficult.

Furthermore, Wolf covers a lot of Lucario's bad matchups (plumbers/floaties), but I still have bad matchups into Samus, Fox, and Falco (who should I play in these situations, btw). Furthermore, I can, vs most of the cast, wall people out with lasers as Wolf and then pick my approach based on laser play (hence why I suck at playing vs faster characters where lasering is a lot more dangerous, e.g. Wolf dittos). For my Wolf, I'm trying to become less laser reliant, trying to get flash setups, and incorporating waveshines/multishines more into my gameplay.
As the meta stands at the moment, Wolf has of the best match-up spreads in the game. According to the Community Match-Up Chart, Wolf only loses to four match-ups (Lucario, Marth, Samus, and Yoshi) whereas Lucario has twelve if I am counting it right. Take that with a grain of salt though. Lucario also struggles with the three match-ups you listed, but if you feel that your Wolf is on par with Lucario I would probably have to say Wolf. Marth is good secondary character in general but especially for Lucario, and according to the match-up chart , Marth goes even with Fox and Samus, again, all of which is debatable.

With Lucario, I can't pick my fights. You don't win neutral on Lucario, your opponent throws it away.
Yah, unfortunately, that's kind of the sad truth, but making an opponent lose neutral is winning neutral nonetheless. I might be overgeneralizing, but Project M for the most part features a cast that is to some extent or another primarily reliant on bait and punish gameplay. Basically the spacies, Diddy Kong, Mario, ROB, and Samus are a few characters that have a good neutral and basically from there the cast becomes more reliant on bait and punish, so it's not like a subpar neutral is exclusive to Lucario.

Lucario's neutral game is definitely not great. He has tools to avoid getting hit and to baiting opponent's into attacking, but his neutral will always be limited by his lack of approach options. While dash attack is rewarding when it hits it's slow, predictable, and laggy all of which make it very punishable. Fair is also a decent approach option but it can only be comboed into a special so it's kind of limited comparatively although it still has the potential to be effective. Something that I know I have mentioned in your reddit gameplay critique is using aura spheres to pressure your opponent. They are not as effective as Wolf's lasers but they have their uses. With the use of b-turnarouns, b-reverses, and wavebounces, aura spheres can be a decent neutral tool especially if you use b-tech aura sphere cancels for movement which makes actually throwing out an aura sphere more surprising. Although aura spheres are not particularly great projectiles, I think improving your usage of them will lend to something slightly closer to the experience of Wolf's neutrals (still lacking in comparison especially in the approach options though),

Lucario unquestionably requires a lot of patience. Lucario should basically never approach in neutral except maybe in an effort to bait an attack. If a Lucario player can not resist aggression, there will definitely be consequences.

On Wolf, I can force approaches and sometimes overwhelm people based on pure techskill. Basically, on Wolf, I can force my agenda down my opponent's throat, I can't with Lucario. I don't have to think about my opponent as Wolf (unless it's vs a Falco).
I don't know what it is like to play such a character, but that must be quite a feeling after having to deal with Lucario's limited approach options. Your situation kind of reminds me of iPunchKidsz playing Fox and his questioning why he still would play Lucario when he cold play Fox. It seems he found some reason to continue using Lucario since I don't believe he has played Lucario recently.

I also get a lot more frustrated when I'm playing Lucario. If I lose as Wolf, I'm like w/e. On Lucario, **** man, I've torn a hole in wallpaper from throwing a controller, tbh I'm surprised my controller hasn't shattered from all the times I've spiked it/thrown it. I don't play this game to have any fun, I play strictly for winning, which is my sole focus. I want 0 to deaths on some of the high PR players, I want to be able to play a set, then make a highlight reel from that one set. I want my opponent's resolve shattered after Game 1.
I don't exactly know how to properly respond to this. I think Lucario is not very forgiving and I know other players and personally experienced frustrating experiences with Lucario. It can be like rehearsing for a speech for hundreds of hours then when it's time to recite it you forget a word in the middle of it and sometimes you recover and finish it but most of the time the rest of it is ruined from there. I think because Lucario is so flowcharty it amplifies the frustration because you know beforehand exactly how a combo should progress, you've practiced and executed it many times, but when it matters you there is some input error or something and you get punished for it and have to put in the work to bait the opponent again. Also, since Wolf has been your secondary up to this point maybe you have at least slightly lesser expectations so your slightly more forgiving of Wolf.

I don't know what to say about your winning being your sole focus. The determination is good, but if it's not fun then I don't know what the point is unless winning is fun. I don't know. I know I play Project M because I find Lucario really fun to play and to theorize about even though it can be a frustrating experience at times. I would really like to be able to win sometime, but I can't realistically make that a ultimatum unless I know I have practiced and studied more so than most everyone else in my area, but that's not at all a priority for me.

So, if winning is your sole priority, then I would say in honesty that I think in the current meta Lucario might be the most overrated character in Project M. Although Lucario's combo game is great (also decent recovery) I think the ability to 0-death a character is negligible in some 20XX scenario in comparison to a reliable neutral. Despite having a less than spectacular matchup spread, a subpar neutral, and only national success from one player, Lucario is consistently placed as a high to top tier character. I don't blame the placement but sort of thinking does not seem to be consistent to other characters, but then again I don't really understand those kind of things so I trust the opinion's of others in that matter. The viability of Lucario has never been a concern for me regardless because I really enjoy using the character. Anyways, theoretically Wolf is probably the "better" character and you seem to have a more aggressive mindset that does not suit Lucario play well, so if winning is the sole priority then it makes sense for Wolf to be a better choice in character for you.

That being said, you haven't really made a case here why Lucario is an option for you and what about your Lucario is better than your Wolf. It's hard to look over what you said and not think that Lucario does nothing for you and the way you play Wolf is exactly what you are looking for.
 

permafros7

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
34
I think it's because Lucario allows my technical nature to shine. He felt right from the beginning, and I've put hundreds of hours into him. I do think Lucario is still high tier and barely solo mainable, but he is for sure the hardest character to play.

What I don't know is whether or not I should chalk this up as a part of Lucario being so demanding, or if I'm not supposed to be playing him.
 
Last edited:

KACHOW!!!

Smash Journeyman
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Feb 21, 2010
Messages
217
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New Hampshire
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"So, I agree and disagree with this. I think this is usually the best thing to do when trying to learn a character, but from my experience I find this inaccurate. So yes, you do want to play Lucario a lot more, but I see a lot of value in playing other characters. In my experience (I'm nowhere near a top level player or anything), it is really easy to ignore some fundamentals in smash when playing Lucario, because Lucario has a lot of character specific stuff and it's easy to think that the combo will be the answer to everything. " - CND

P permafros7
I think I agree with CND on this and on the points he raises about lu being statistically proven to be unreliable. I also think CND might be right about picking other characters, so maybe have a 4-1-1 spread in training each day, or 3-1-1. 4 matches as lucario, 1 match as another specific character, and one match on random maybe? I don't know, but might be right about playing not just lu, because you never see M2k or other top players only choose one character ever in training, so i guess playing everyone to some extent must be important.

In reguards to your last post "I think it's because Lucario allows my technical nature to shine..." idk, I don't know why i feel so compelled to give you my opinion, maybe its because you're a competitive smasher, and I am too, so i Empathize with you on that level, and care about your internal struggle to demand perfection from yourself, because I definitely feel that every day.

I used to be a link main, Link is hands down a better character than my current main: Snake. I think I had that feeling about snake over link that you have about Lucario over wolf (maybe, maybe we don't feel the same, i can't be sure). But in that case, you basically have to make a choice: Hype, or numbers. In the end I chose hype (snake) over numbers (link). I'm not going to tell you you can't be the best player in the world, I'm not going to tell you you can't win tournaments with lucario, But what I will say is this:

Don't you think every one of your victories will feel so much sweeter when won by Lucario?

But there's another side to this coin: You're already better with wolf. You're already closer to the mountain top with wolf. But there's a problem you've outlined: You sound like you know what to do. Nobody know's what to do. Nobody doesn't have room to grow, to improve. Maybe if your end goal is winning, and you're already ahead with Wolf, maybe you need to look up some really precise difficult and useful tech with wolf, because thats what gets me excited to play: The idea that Just because I have some technique or special highly technical move in my back pocket I'm instantly made better. Maybe you need to find what makes you excited to play Lucario In wolf. IDK, do some more research, learn some more tech. Or play them both. Since you sound so torn, you could also just play a few games with LU, play a few games with wolf, then play a few games on random. Keep fighting, see what works.
 

permafros7

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
34
I've actually played a lot more Lucario than Wolf, and my Wolf is probably just underneath my Lucario as it stands right now. I've decided to dual main the two characters at the moment.
 

CND

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
74
I think it's because Lucario allows my technical nature to shine. He felt right from the beginning, and I've put hundreds of hours into him. I do think Lucario is still high tier and barely solo mainable, but he is for sure the hardest character to play.

What I don't know is whether or not I should chalk this up as a part of Lucario being so demanding, or if I'm not supposed to be playing him.
It is kind of interesting that Lucario's appeal to you seems to coming from a drive to be stylish and your interest in Wolf seems to coming from a drive to win. I don't know if anything is to be said about that.

Lucario is certainly a demanding character and that comes with its own challenges. I think it's really important to acknowledge that Lucario does not compliment a very aggressive play-style since his neutral and approach are limited, and you seem to have a very aggressive philosophy. If Wolf compliments that aggression then he might be better for you, but I think more important than changing mains would be changing your mindset to the gameplay. I don't think any character will let you force your agenda down your opponent's throat as you say, but some characters are definitely have agenda-setting abilities, such as the spacies. Characters can set agendas by pressuring the opponent typically with projectiles, disjoints, and movement, but you can't expect these things to petrify opponents into submission. If a character could just decide to hit the opponent whenever they want and lead into a combo with a finisher that would be overpowered. So, I mean to say by all that is you will in most cases (at least against most players with decent experience) not "overwhelm an opponent with pure techskill," you will not shove your agenda down your opponent's throat, and you will have much success not thinking about your opponent. You will probably find more success trying to provoke moments to capitalize on punishable situations by pressuring your opponent with the tools available to your character and these moments become more available and easier to punish if you are mindful how your opponent reacts to your actions. Wolf has an easier time pressuring the opponent than Lucario, but Lucario is also very capable of provoking punishable opportunities but through far more defensive-oriented gameplay. I also totally support your aggressive mindset especially if it works for you, but I am not confident that your approach at least the way you described it will meld well with Project M's gameplay and especially with Lucario.

I think I agree with CND on this and on the points he raises about lu being statistically proven to be unreliable. I also think CND might be right about picking other characters, so maybe have a 4-1-1 spread in training each day, or 3-1-1. 4 matches as lucario, 1 match as another specific character, and one match on random maybe? I don't know, but might be right about playing not just lu, because you never see M2k or other top players only choose one character ever in training, so i guess playing everyone to some extent must be important.
So, I recommend playing other characters that will help create good habits that will carry over to your main. So, I speak on this mostly as a Lucario main, but I could see it for other characters. So, as Lucario I am not good at using OoS options, wavedashing, and I shield and grab too much in neutral in general. So, when I am playing Project M I will play Bowser and Mario because they have good OoS options, decent wavedashing, and require smart use and limited use of dash attack which are all good habits for Lucario. I also like to play Olimar because his grabs can be good, but they are slow and very punishable so since it gets punished more apparently, it more quickly encourages smart use of grabs. The thing with Lucario is it is way too tempting to get distracted practicing the combo game as well as thinking you can cover bad habits by compensating with the combo game. I think this could be true of other characters with notable unique mechanics (Ice Climbers, Mewtwo,etc.) so I think it would not be a bad idea to practice another character simultaneously that is more reliant upon good general tech-skill and fundamentals to avoid getting distracted character specific tech.
 

permafros7

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
34
It was more a feel than a desire to be stylish that had me picking up Lucario. Don't get me wrong, I love going for style points, and Lucario and Wolf are really hype/stylish characters. I also have a need to press a lot of buttons lol, so I gravitate toward high APM characters. Also Lucario has nearly **** all OoS, which is why I personally hate shielding, since I have nothing out of it.
 

CND

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
74
It was more a feel than a desire to be stylish that had me picking up Lucario. Don't get me wrong, I love going for style points, and Lucario and Wolf are really hype/stylish characters. I also have a need to press a lot of buttons lol, so I gravitate toward high APM characters. Also Lucario has nearly **** all OoS, which is why I personally hate shielding, since I have nothing out of it.
Yah, I don't think Lucario handles shield pressure, but Up smash out of shield is a decent option. I think or at least heard that it's the only up smash you can turnaround at the start of the animation, so you can land it on either side. Also, dair into side b is popular but I think multiple characters can just tech in place and punish the endlag of side b so I try to avoid that.
 

permafros7

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Jan 10, 2016
Messages
34
If I did something like dair or fair OoS, I would do something like both hits of dair and then double team to chase them, similar stuff w/ fair. Side B is too risky unless you space it properly so that you can hit them with dair to either jab reset or catch the tech in place. If they tech roll, you can either go for a tech chase or it just goes back to neutral.
 

Gooch

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May 6, 2015
Messages
46
Location
San Antonio, Texas
I see you everywhere complaining about the character online, and in streams dude. No offense, but you'd be a lot further if you were practicing, analyzing your gameplay, figuring out why you got hit, what you could have done in certain situations better, how you could have followed up on combos futher. Smash takes a lot of time to actually get good at, and if you just complain all the time, you arent going to get far.
 

permafros7

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
34
I see you everywhere complaining about the character online, and in streams dude. No offense, but you'd be a lot further if you were practicing, analyzing your gameplay, figuring out why you got hit, what you could have done in certain situations better, how you could have followed up on combos futher. Smash takes a lot of time to actually get good at, and if you just complain all the time, you arent going to get far.
I don't know what is "right," so it gets really hard to see what is wrong. I also lab a lot, so could I be practicing improperly?
 

permafros7

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
34
Woot, I figured it out. I've been playing almost purely on autopilot. Those few games where I could pick up on my opponent and identify what went wrong were the few games I was not autopiloting. Now that I know this, I have an idea of where I have to go to git gud :).
 

atara

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
47
my Wolf is now at the same level as my Lucario
Don't fall into the "beat my practice partner(s)" trap.

The guy I practice with most plays Roy; we go back and forth in games when we play together. A week or two ago I pulled out a Kirby and bopped him, even though I never practice Kirby. Why? Because I know my friend's Roy, and he doesn't know my Kirby (also he's too aggressive). Surprise counterpicks never work against players who are actually good, and when I play in a real tournament I can't do better than playing Lucario (or Charizard, but I've put a lot of time into him). Good players likely won't fall for your Wolf jank (unless your Wolf is not jank) but if you know enough about Lucario you'll be able to find a way in if you think about it.
 
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