Hello, I've been in a pretty big rut with my Lucario play to the point that my Wolf is now at the same level as my Lucario with so much less effort/time put into him. What should I be doing differently, and what can I do to get out of this rut?
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I'll add some things you may haven't realized/thought about.Spacing tools: Neutral B, SHFFL forward air, dtilt? Lucario is quite limited in this department.
Pokes: Neutral B, tip of dtilt, tip of fair
Grabs/Throws: Uthrow/dthrow DI mixup, up throw can lead to a fair string, tatsu, bair, up air into ESC uair/tatsu at kill percents. Dthrow can set up fairs, tatsu.
Neutral: Running around, livin' on a prayer.
So, I agree and disagree with this. I think this is usually the best thing to do when trying to learn a character, but from my experience I find this inaccurate. So yes, you do want to play Lucario a lot more, but I see a lot of value in playing other characters. In my experience (I'm nowhere near a top level player or anything), it is really easy to ignore some fundamentals in smash when playing Lucario, because Lucario has a lot of character specific stuff and it's easy to think that the combo will be the answer to everything. I started with Project M and started with Lucario which I don't think I would recommend but anyways instead of learning important things like DI, wavedashing, wavelanding, OoS options and such I always sought to find workarounds with Lucario. I used to figure all I had to do was work on my combo game and get it to a point where I could just ignore those kind of things. It's easy to look at Lucario's wavedash from an ignorant standpoint and say how could this ever be useful, and other than Up Smash his OoS options are not great, but these things are super important. So, I started to play other characters more extensively in order to get in the habit of doing these things. Since this is still an ongoing thing for me I typically play characters like Mario, Marth, and Bowser to get in the habit of SHFFL, wavedashing, wavelanding, and OoS options then I try to play Lucario and start incorporating these habits. The other characters I play are probably more fundamentally solid than Lucario, but I am really confident in the Lucario specific stuff and I think I am getting towards applying those things to Lucario.Permafros7, you have a new rule when you play PM: There is no character select screen. Not ever. There is only you moving your hand over Lucario, dropping the symbol on it, and waiting for your opponent to hit start and bring you to the stage select screen. You should probably, for about 3 months I'd say, not ever ever ever ever pick another character besides lucario. This is crucial because you'll be stuck in a solitary environment with your dear friend Lucario. You are lucario. Your hands are Lucario. You eat, sleep and breath lucario. When you're not at your Wii and you're at work or school you're sitting around fantasizing about lucario. I like to make a lot of Snake Playlists on spotify. This is a snake playlist I made. https://open.spotify.com/user/1227369675/playlist/7nAHWoTakAwPvRL8j7tcBD
It puts me into the headspace of my favorite character, My god, my one, my only: Snake. I don't play super smash brothers anymore, I play snake. You don't play super smash brothers anymore: YOU PLAY SUPER LUCARIO BROTHERS BRAWL: PROJECT LUCARIO!
In a few months, ask your friends/ people at your local tournaments if you've improved, and there answer will be a resounding YES.
Yah, Wolf and the other spacies definitely have a more apparent neutral game than Lucario. Winning neutral four times is definitely the idea although extremely unlikely in practice. As you have experienced, it takes a lot of practice and labbing to be able to reliably combo against every character and practicing neutral is just as difficult.I think my Wolf allows me to rely on winning neutral more. I play Lucario with the assumption that I will only win neutral four times, so I try to go for a 0 to death combo whenever possible, hence why I lab a **** ton.
As the meta stands at the moment, Wolf has of the best match-up spreads in the game. According to the Community Match-Up Chart, Wolf only loses to four match-ups (Lucario, Marth, Samus, and Yoshi) whereas Lucario has twelve if I am counting it right. Take that with a grain of salt though. Lucario also struggles with the three match-ups you listed, but if you feel that your Wolf is on par with Lucario I would probably have to say Wolf. Marth is good secondary character in general but especially for Lucario, and according to the match-up chart , Marth goes even with Fox and Samus, again, all of which is debatable.Furthermore, Wolf covers a lot of Lucario's bad matchups (plumbers/floaties), but I still have bad matchups into Samus, Fox, and Falco (who should I play in these situations, btw). Furthermore, I can, vs most of the cast, wall people out with lasers as Wolf and then pick my approach based on laser play (hence why I suck at playing vs faster characters where lasering is a lot more dangerous, e.g. Wolf dittos). For my Wolf, I'm trying to become less laser reliant, trying to get flash setups, and incorporating waveshines/multishines more into my gameplay.
Yah, unfortunately, that's kind of the sad truth, but making an opponent lose neutral is winning neutral nonetheless. I might be overgeneralizing, but Project M for the most part features a cast that is to some extent or another primarily reliant on bait and punish gameplay. Basically the spacies, Diddy Kong, Mario, ROB, and Samus are a few characters that have a good neutral and basically from there the cast becomes more reliant on bait and punish, so it's not like a subpar neutral is exclusive to Lucario.With Lucario, I can't pick my fights. You don't win neutral on Lucario, your opponent throws it away.
I don't know what it is like to play such a character, but that must be quite a feeling after having to deal with Lucario's limited approach options. Your situation kind of reminds me of iPunchKidsz playing Fox and his questioning why he still would play Lucario when he cold play Fox. It seems he found some reason to continue using Lucario since I don't believe he has played Lucario recently.On Wolf, I can force approaches and sometimes overwhelm people based on pure techskill. Basically, on Wolf, I can force my agenda down my opponent's throat, I can't with Lucario. I don't have to think about my opponent as Wolf (unless it's vs a Falco).
I don't exactly know how to properly respond to this. I think Lucario is not very forgiving and I know other players and personally experienced frustrating experiences with Lucario. It can be like rehearsing for a speech for hundreds of hours then when it's time to recite it you forget a word in the middle of it and sometimes you recover and finish it but most of the time the rest of it is ruined from there. I think because Lucario is so flowcharty it amplifies the frustration because you know beforehand exactly how a combo should progress, you've practiced and executed it many times, but when it matters you there is some input error or something and you get punished for it and have to put in the work to bait the opponent again. Also, since Wolf has been your secondary up to this point maybe you have at least slightly lesser expectations so your slightly more forgiving of Wolf.I also get a lot more frustrated when I'm playing Lucario. If I lose as Wolf, I'm like w/e. On Lucario, **** man, I've torn a hole in wallpaper from throwing a controller, tbh I'm surprised my controller hasn't shattered from all the times I've spiked it/thrown it. I don't play this game to have any fun, I play strictly for winning, which is my sole focus. I want 0 to deaths on some of the high PR players, I want to be able to play a set, then make a highlight reel from that one set. I want my opponent's resolve shattered after Game 1.
It is kind of interesting that Lucario's appeal to you seems to coming from a drive to be stylish and your interest in Wolf seems to coming from a drive to win. I don't know if anything is to be said about that.I think it's because Lucario allows my technical nature to shine. He felt right from the beginning, and I've put hundreds of hours into him. I do think Lucario is still high tier and barely solo mainable, but he is for sure the hardest character to play.
What I don't know is whether or not I should chalk this up as a part of Lucario being so demanding, or if I'm not supposed to be playing him.
So, I recommend playing other characters that will help create good habits that will carry over to your main. So, I speak on this mostly as a Lucario main, but I could see it for other characters. So, as Lucario I am not good at using OoS options, wavedashing, and I shield and grab too much in neutral in general. So, when I am playing Project M I will play Bowser and Mario because they have good OoS options, decent wavedashing, and require smart use and limited use of dash attack which are all good habits for Lucario. I also like to play Olimar because his grabs can be good, but they are slow and very punishable so since it gets punished more apparently, it more quickly encourages smart use of grabs. The thing with Lucario is it is way too tempting to get distracted practicing the combo game as well as thinking you can cover bad habits by compensating with the combo game. I think this could be true of other characters with notable unique mechanics (Ice Climbers, Mewtwo,etc.) so I think it would not be a bad idea to practice another character simultaneously that is more reliant upon good general tech-skill and fundamentals to avoid getting distracted character specific tech.I think I agree with CND on this and on the points he raises about lu being statistically proven to be unreliable. I also think CND might be right about picking other characters, so maybe have a 4-1-1 spread in training each day, or 3-1-1. 4 matches as lucario, 1 match as another specific character, and one match on random maybe? I don't know, but might be right about playing not just lu, because you never see M2k or other top players only choose one character ever in training, so i guess playing everyone to some extent must be important.
Yah, I don't think Lucario handles shield pressure, but Up smash out of shield is a decent option. I think or at least heard that it's the only up smash you can turnaround at the start of the animation, so you can land it on either side. Also, dair into side b is popular but I think multiple characters can just tech in place and punish the endlag of side b so I try to avoid that.It was more a feel than a desire to be stylish that had me picking up Lucario. Don't get me wrong, I love going for style points, and Lucario and Wolf are really hype/stylish characters. I also have a need to press a lot of buttons lol, so I gravitate toward high APM characters. Also Lucario has nearly **** all OoS, which is why I personally hate shielding, since I have nothing out of it.
I don't know what is "right," so it gets really hard to see what is wrong. I also lab a lot, so could I be practicing improperly?I see you everywhere complaining about the character online, and in streams dude. No offense, but you'd be a lot further if you were practicing, analyzing your gameplay, figuring out why you got hit, what you could have done in certain situations better, how you could have followed up on combos futher. Smash takes a lot of time to actually get good at, and if you just complain all the time, you arent going to get far.
Don't fall into the "beat my practice partner(s)" trap.my Wolf is now at the same level as my Lucario