IMPORTANT: READ BEFORE POSTING!!! These are not combos!

[ph00tbag]

Hello, esteemed colleague and welcome to the Zero Suit Samus (Zamus) character subforum, where you can come to discuss techniques, combos and strategies for Zamus. You can also come here to express awe at Zamus' rocking tilts.

However, before you join us in extolling the virtues of this underused character, we have some warnings for the endeavouring Zamus main. Some... common misconceptions, if you will. Past users have been derided and turned away by simply not researching these misconceptions to their fullest extent. So, for your own sake, please take the following post seriously.

The following move sequences are not combos:

1. Dthrow to uair
Dthrow has very little lag, and uair is a fast aerial, so it is understandable to think that one would link into the other. However, this is simply not the case. Hitstun in Brawl is simply too short, and your opponent can easily airdodge long before you are anywhere near close enough to hit him. Maybe you can predict his airdodge, but that is a dodgy tactic.

Pun intended.

2. Dthrow to fair
Similar to the uair nonsense. You may think this would work where uair does not, because fair hits twice. I am sorry, but you think wrong.

No, really.

3. Dthrow to... anything
Face it. Dthrow actually sucks. ***. It does not combo into anything, and does not do much more than maybe, maybe present an opportunity to chase your opponent. Generally, though, trying to combo out of dthrow on skilled opponents is very, very silly. So, try all you want, just do not come crying to me when other Zamuses laugh at you. I warned you.

4. Fthrow chaingrab
So you can grab people out of the air right? And Fthrow tosses your opponent right into range of a dash grab, right? Well, kind of. Unfortunately, in the magical world of DI, midairs and air dodges, you cannot chaingrab most characters, and those that you can, you can only do so maybe once. May as well just use fthrow to get rid of people you have grabbed, since you really cannot do anything from a grab as Zamus. No really, you cannot.

Honestly, it is not like it makes her very different from 90% of the cast anyway.

5. Plasma Wire to Dsmash
No. No. No. This does not work. At low percents, your opponent recovers from spikestun too fast for dsmash to legitimately connect, and at high percents, Plasma Wire is techable. Furthermore, Plasma Wire is DIable. And before you tell me it is not, yes it is. Before you tell me you friend who can DI cannot get out, your friend cannot DI.

By association, there is no Plasma Wire/Dsmash infinite. It would be awesome if there were, but there is not. No, there is not.

Yes, I am sure.

-----------------------

I suppose a general rule for you to keep in mind is that if you think it is a combo, it probably is not. Therefore, do not make a post saying it is. In this way, you'll find your time here on the Zamus boards a great deal more fun.

Thank you, and happy posting!

 

[25%Cotton]

LOL thanks for this XD

 

[ashes]

Nice post... true and yet still very amusing in the way you wrote it.

 

[Taso]

Appreciate the effort, but a good Zamus player will be spontaneous and use many different strategies. Enough so that a person can't rightly predict exactly how you're going to follow up any attack.

Down throw into Uair does work in certain conditions. I run a weekly tournament, and I see plenty of skilled players who can do combos that you say cannot work.

True enough, if someone attempts only these combos, there are ways around them. But a person who only attempts these ones is not a good player and shouldn't be considered in the first place.

Now Fthrow chain- THAT i can agree is a bad tactic in any situation.

No offense intended toward you, good sir. I'm sure you spent a lot of time on this, but you seem like you've taken to assuming that every skilled player would be able to expect these combos in any situation.

 

[ph00tbag]

Down throw into Uair does work in certain conditions. I run a weekly tournament, and I see plenty of skilled players who can do combos that you say cannot work.

But it's not a combo. It's a series of moves that works if your opponent is piss poor at DI, midair jumping and airdodging. A friend of mine started playing Brawl in the last month or so, and learned how to avoid this string in the first day.

Maybe it can be used if they mess up DI, and forget to jump or airdodge. But that doesn't make it a combo.

Maybe I didn't stress it enough, but everything that is in this thread is in here because it has been shown not to be a guaranteed combo again and again.

 

[Taso]

I'm not gonna' argue with you, but I see some pretty ****-skilled players every week, and I see them throw curveballs at each other. Things that should be dodge-able, but they don't due to misprediction or a million other things.

Dthrowing can be strung into a few different things that are very different, and if the Zamus player uses all of them amongst many other tactics, it's difficult to avoid certain combos.
Or "Series of moves" if you prefer.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Requesting sticky in order to keep more pointless threads off of the board.

Taso clearly seems to be missing the point or is just bad at trolling.

 

[Cboy]

I think ph00tbag is just saying that many of the posted fake combo are not chained thats all. He is not saying they dont serve a purpose. these series of attacks are worth learning and performing. No matter if you playing the best person in the world, no one will play perfect. whenever the opportunity present itself is always worth trying and theres a good chance you may pull off these series of attacks often in a match by catching the enemy off-guard.

 

[SabinFigaro24]

I think the definition of Combo is lost on some people around these boards.

A follow up, or a tech chase, or out-thinking your opponent's defensive maneuver does not mean that you've come up with a combo. It doesn't mean you're less skilled, it actually means you're more skilled, but it's not a combo.

 

[Bouse]

But DSmash into Plasma Wire is super effective! It chains for like a billion percent!

And yeah, the more I play Zero Suit the more annoying the guy I play with gets. I actually wish those combos worked, but then again that would just make Zero ridiculous.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

I give this thread the double ZSS Seal of approval!

Good job Ph00t :D

 

[Taso]

And that's where I deviate.

I'm an old fashioned person. I hate seeing all these new definitions that come up for pre-existing words.

To me, a combo is any string of attacks that can be performed in succession to do more damage at one time. The key word I use is "can". Not will.
I don't view a combo as a string of attacks that always works or anything of the sort.

Definitions are subjective based on the person using them and their background. So by telling me that I miss the point of this thread or that I'm a bad troll, you're admitting that you do not think definitions are subjective.

And therein would lie your problem, not mine.

Simplicity is something I prefer. I hate having a million different words that imply slight variations to each other.

=]
I love the hospitality shown on these boards, by the by. Everyone's huggably kind.

 

[SabinFigaro24]

It's only my problem if I'm the outlier - you're imposing static definitions over time on yourself. In the context of these boards, in this community, combos are seen as inescapable. Your argument that a definition is malleable suggests that multiple definitions of a word exist, and the only reason th at multiple definitions exist is to adapt to different situations. These boards are one of those situations, and everywhere I go here, I see threads refuting "combos" and explaining how to avoid them reliably.

This says to me that a Combo, in the context of Brawl discussed on SmashBoards, isn't as flexible a word as you feel it is.

 

[Taso]

Instead of tacking useless new words and phrases to the idea, I simply have varying degrees of combos in my mind.

Escapable combos, inescapable combos, and anywhere in between easy to escape and difficult to escape.

This is my choice to avoid over-complicating something that, to me, is quite simple.


And enough people on these boards also do not understand this "new" definition of combo that I feel as though the transition merely splits the boards into several groups. The group that uses the "hip, new" lingo to describe tactics in a video game, and the group that uses more generic definitions that, to them, seem far more simple.


Your group is the kind that's more concerned with labeling every single type of deviation in a group to avoid any confusion whatsoever as an ends. However, the problem with that is that confusion is a direct result when anyone outside your group attempts to enter and converse.
Case and point- Myself.

Useless add-ons and varied definitions confuse me as an old school gamer. I play competitively, but I don't take it so seriously to the extent that I have to lose myself amongst piles of useless information to understand the game entirely.

What works for you guys is something a lot of people don't need and from what I've seen, a lot of completely innocent people get flamed on these boards for simply misconstruing a word that you guys have changed the specifics of.
*shrug*

I suppose if it's a necessity, I'll just stop coming down to the character forums, since I seem to be the enemy here.

EDIT: Guy below me said it better than I could =]

 

[Bouse]

Actually if you look in training mode, combo's are moves that can be done in tight succession with little space.
The best definitions to use are the ones given to use by the game itself.

Edit: Also, specifics are for those who care about absolute definition. If you don't care for defining something in an absolute, then just ignore those statements.

 

[James Sparrow]

Definitions are subjective based on the person using them and their background. So by telling me that I miss the point of this thread or that I'm a bad troll, you're admitting that you do not think definitions are subjective.

You're missing the point of this thread and you're a bad troll, but those words' definitions are subjunctive to me, so therefore I can't be wrong in saying it.

Sticky this thread plz.

 

[DeliciousCake]

And that's where I deviate.

I'm an old fashioned person. I hate seeing all these new definitions that come up for pre-existing words.

To me, a combo is any string of attacks that can be performed in succession to do more damage at one time. The key word I use is "can". Not will.
I don't view a combo as a string of attacks that always works or anything of the sort.

Definitions are subjective based on the person using them and their background. So by telling me that I miss the point of this thread or that I'm a bad troll, you're admitting that you do not think definitions are subjective.

And therein would lie your problem, not mine.

Simplicity is something I prefer. I hate having a million different words that imply slight variations to each other.

=]
I love the hospitality shown on these boards, by the by. Everyone's huggably kind.

By pulling the "subjective" card, you have no credibility in arguing against me, because I can just throw the same **** right back in your face. If everything is subjective to everybody else, then allow the majority and the people with credibility write the rules. You are not the majority. You do not have credibility. You're missing the point of the thread because you don't know what you're talking about and try to back up your argument using fallacious reasoning.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Sticky please!

 

[Snakeee]

Ok I get what youre saying but the D-throw is actually useful and you need to mindgame to hit with it. I've had D-throw - Charged JCed UpSmash work on lower percentages as it hits after someone airdodges. Also, at low percents you can actually sometimes run past them if you know theyll airdodge into the ground and do a reverse grab. At higher percentages, its useful just to get them up in the air which is a great spot to have an opponent with ZSS in general.

 

[zero5]

sticky icky icky this plz....

 

[ph00tbag]

Ok I get what youre saying but the D-throw is actually useful and you need to mindgame to hit with it. I've had D-throw - Charged JCed UpSmash work on lower percentages as it hits after someone airdodges. Also, at low percents you can actually sometimes run past them if you know theyll airdodge into the ground and do a reverse grab. At higher percentages, its useful just to get them up in the air which is a great spot to have an opponent with ZSS in general.

Except any of this can be avoided if they just DI away and midair with an airdodge.

 

[Snakeee]

Except any of this can be avoided if they just DI away and midair with an airdodge.

At lower percents they work, and they're meant to work BECAUSE of the typical instant airdodge. If you charge the up smash you're holding it off for the airdodge, and the reverse grab takes enough time to work as well if they airdodge into the ground. You have to chase their DI with both of these.

 

[ph00tbag]

At lower percents they work, and they're meant to work BECAUSE of the typical instant airdodge. If you charge the up smash you're holding it off for the airdodge, and the reverse grab takes enough time to work as well if they airdodge into the ground. You have to chase their DI with both of these.

So predicting an airdodge helps you land a hit. It doesn't make it a combo. It means you predicted the predictable. M2K beat Azen's MK by doing this. Doesn't mean he comboed the guy.

 

[Snakeee]

So predicting an airdodge helps you land a hit. It doesn't make it a combo. It means you predicted the predictable. M2K beat Azen's MK by doing this. Doesn't mean he comboed the guy.

I had actually edited my post (but it got messed up) saying that I realize that they are not guaranteed combos, but hardly anything is in this game. You usually have to mindgame to "combo". Except for certain things like d-smash combos.

 

[fkacyan]

I like this thread.

Granted, some of these work sometimes, but it requires luck and a lot of reading skill, which makes it not a combo and more a good DI chase.

 

[James Sparrow]

Taso sent me an angry pm, anyone else get it? LOL

 

[DeliciousCake]

He sent me one a while ago. I'll post it so we can compare if you want. I hope he's lurking here reading this right now after he said he was going to stop coming here.

 

[ph00tbag]

Taso sent me an angry pm, anyone else get it? LOL

Oddly enough, I have not managed to receive such a PM. As the OP of this thread, I reserve the right to feel somewhat offended.

 

[Snakeee]

Well, anyway more often the F-throw tends to be a better choice, but the D-throw is definitely not useless IMO. I like the thread, but I just think you should be a bit more clear on certain things.

 

[ph00tbag]

Well, anyway more often the F-throw tends to be a better choice, but the D-throw is definitely not useless IMO. I like the thread, but I just think you should be a bit more clear on certain things.

Fair enough. I did intend to exaggerate for comic effect. I still don't much care for dthrow, but it has its occasional uses.

 

[zero5]

i'm bumping this for the sake of the people here.. =)

and please STICKY THIS!!

 

[Bouse]

Yes, is needs sticky! This will probably work better than my sarcastic post because generally, like Zamus' up smash, it tends to go over people's heads.
|--(is the sarcasm!)
/
\
/
\(lolwhip!)
(is short!)

 

[kuenzel]

wow, I actually believed the up-b-->dSmash thing was an infinate- and I didnt know up-b could be DI'd--ty for clearing that up!

 

[Ing.]

With concern to your Dthrow To anything.

DThrow is more useful as the enemy(s) are of a higher %.

For example if the enemy were at 86%:
UThrow will launch then higher into the air and may i add straight up.
DThrow ill Launch high high enough to chain attacks. the throw may also put the your enemy on an angle which is even better.

 

[ph00tbag]

With concern to your Dthrow To anything.

DThrow is more useful as the enemy(s) are of a higher %.

For example if the enemy were at 86%:
UThrow will launch then higher into the air and may i add straight up.
DThrow ill Launch high high enough to chain attacks. the throw may always put the your enemy on an angle which is even better.

Part of the thing about this thread is that it has to be considered in context. At the time, we had a lot of people trying to convince us that ZSS had all these combos that she just didn't. This thread was to encourage people to think, and try to consider that these things might not actually be combos.

Some of them are at certain percents, but people were exaggerating their usefulness.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Ah, the good old days when we had people come onto the boards every two days trying to convince us that Plasma Wire -> d-smash was infallible.

 

[Charby]

Uthrow advantage : 10% damage and nice knockback, but you can't link at all with another hit

 

[Samuelson]

I came her to express awe at Zamus' rockin' ****!

 

[ph00tbag]

I came her to express awe at Zamus' rockin' ****!

Typown'd, bro.

 

[Ing.]

Part of the thing about this thread is that it has to be considered in context. At the time, we had a lot of people trying to convince us that ZSS had all these combos that she just didn't. This thread was to encourage people to think, and try to consider that these things might not actually be combos.

Some of them are at certain percents, but people were exaggerating their usefulness.

i not sure what u mean by "At the time, we had a lot of people trying to convince us that ZSS had all these combos that she just didn't." may u please explain this in more detailed context